Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Talys

Canon R5
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Feb 16, 2017
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douglaurent said:
If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one.

Different strokes for different folks. For me, it's less about innovation and more about iteration and refinement. Optically, 10 years ago, I was where I needed to be with glass and sensor already. I can shoot anything I need to shoot with primes and a t2i (the oldest body I have that's still in use) and be happy with it, but I keep buying new stuff, not because I'm a Canon fanboy or because I have money to burn, but because I'm willing to pay for incrementally better IQ, more flexibility, and more technological features -- even if they're not, strictly speaking, "innovative".

For me, 6Dmk2 will probably make me very happy. All I really want for Christmas is for Canon to sell me a FF body with all of the technological features of my 80D. Generally speaking, I'm very happy when Canon makes incrementally better products that seem very mundane and uninspiring, but surprise me with their utility, like the 24-70 f4. When I saw the headline, it was definitely, meh. Why would I want that? But after being convinced to try one? I bought it instantly, and it's been my favorite lens since.
 
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Crosswind said:
Good point. If it has such a bulbous front element with a built-in hood (which many UWAs feature), then I'm guessing it is at or below 14mm. But I'm not so sure if we can call it a "unique" feature having a built-in hood, because that's pretty common among other UWAs.

Note the rumor: "a unique feature for an EF-S lens". Other Canon UWAs have it... in EF format. Other companies' crop lenses have that... but they can't be called "EF-S". I'm sure Canon would call that "a unique feature for an EF-S lens". Which is why I think everyone going crazy with "unique" possibilities is going to be disappointed.
 
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Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
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LonelyBoy said:
Note the rumor: "a unique feature for an EF-S lens". Other Canon UWAs have it... in EF format.

Yeah I have thought about that possibility, but I didn't want to read too much into it. Do you have an idea what else that could be?
(edit: I cannot imagine that a built-in lens hood can be called "unique". That's kind of a standard for an UWA and just a very basic part of the lens and it sounds ridiculous lol)

No I'm not going crazy about this "feature", but I clearly do have interest in that lens because it might be a valid contender against the Samyang 10mm f/2.8, even if it would be some mm above that FL.

Right now, there's only a very small selection of lenses available in the UWA range, with an aperture viable for astrophotography and at a price range between ~300-500 bucks. Most of the (U)WA lenses from Canon which are built for crop cameras are zooms. I don't say that they are bad (the EF-M 11-22 is exceptional in terms of image quality), but I'm definitely missing something that is a bit faster, preferably with AF and IS.
 
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Crosswind said:
Yeah I have thought about that possibility, but I didn't want to read too much into it. Do you have an idea what else that could be?

No I'm not going crazy about this "feature", but I clearly do have interest in that lens because it might be a valid contender against the Samyang 10mm f/2.8, even if it would be some mm above that FL.

Right now, there's only a very small selection of lenses available in the UWA range, with an aperture viable for astrophotography and at a price range between ~300-500 bucks. Most of the (U)WA lenses from Canon which are built for crop cameras are zooms. I don't say that they are bad (the EF-M 11-22 is exceptional in terms of image quality), but I'm definitely missing something that is a bit faster, preferably with AF and IS.

Only what I already suggested, and that I think it's going to be something that leaves most here scratching their heads and asking "that's it?" when they see the press release. Nothing fancy, nothing (crazy) expensive, and nothing totally new. Just something that Canon hasn't done on any first-party crop lenses yet.
 
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Hflm said:
douglaurent said:
If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.

The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.

That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?
I don't know what you expect. I have an A7rii and wouldn't rely solely on it. The 99ii seems to have its quirks, too, with mostly older screwdrive lenses, subpar 70-200/2.8 (and overprized), conflicting reports on AF, sensitivity which isn't close to the -4ev they are marketing it. If you think an A9 is a replacement for everything one needs to wait first what exactly this camera will be and how it performs (again conflicting reports on resolution etc.). OSPDAF has limitations compared to dedicated PDAF (which are not easy to overcome, especially in dim light and with lenses starting strongly OOF, or tracking, due to not acting on the OOF field but in focus field, which prevents phase information as soon as the light rays are within the COC). I find Canon DPAF to be superior on my 5d4. The new Sony camera will be in the 6000+ Euro range, so not a camera for the masses but only a selected few. Sony flash support is something I really curse from time to time (specifically this stupid flash mount which results in tiny plastic flash foots which won't hold tight but leave room to flash wiggle. Every time I turn the head I am afraid to tear the flash off). Your last paragraph is just nonsense. You can use an 5d4 like a mirrorless with DPAF, I do that regularly. DPAF is a great innovation, you can focus with your 200mm from complete OOF down to -4ev on the touch of your finger. My A7rii is hunting like crazy when trying this (and wors so when stopping down to f4 or further). If you can't get along with an 1dxii or 5div you should switch your profession.

Don't waste your breath. Doug is a longterm crank, and Canon could give away a free unicorn with every camera and he'd still complain it had only one horn...
 
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Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
195
0
Austria
LonelyBoy said:
Only what I already suggested, and that I think it's going to be something that leaves most here scratching their heads and asking "that's it?" when they see the press release. Nothing fancy, nothing (crazy) expensive, and nothing totally new. Just something that Canon hasn't done on any first-party crop lenses yet.

Doesn't have to be any fancy lens. The mentioned Samyang is even less interesting when compared. But I do hope that the Canon is on par or even better than the Samyang in terms of image quality... That'd be enough for me.
 
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Crosswind

The bigger your Canon, the smaller your Cannon :)
Feb 2, 2015
195
0
Austria
scyrene said:
Fwiw, my choice of 'unique feature to EF-S' would be the inclusion of a macro light like that recent EF-M lens. A wide angle macro (or near macro) lens with built in light would be pretty nifty.

But wouldn't it be quite difficult for such a small, built-in LED to correctly illuminate the subject if the lens is an UWA? (challenging FoV for macro lights)
 
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slclick

EOS 3
Dec 17, 2013
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douglaurent said:
If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.

The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.

That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?

So, should every year be both the year of the lens (and body and printer and cine and ....)?

We all know what brand does that and just how well it works for them.
 
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Re: Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap -- Look for New Medium Format in 2018

I get rumor mail all the time from friends in Europe
and this is what I received in that last week from
friends in the Netherlands who forwarded this
originally German-sourced spec sheet to me
about a new medium format Canon camera
with an absolutely H-U-G-E Canon-sourced
sensor. I've been told sometime 2018 or 2019
this will be announced as it has been worked
on for some time now by Canon. I haven't
changed the text below. It is exactly as
I received it. The text gives an unsubstantiated
indication that the camera has been seen working
out in the wild.

This is an .u.n.s.u.b.s.t.a.n.t.i.a.t.e.d. rumor
from a European source so take it with more
than a few grains of salt but I can't totally
discount it either because I've been hearing
too many other rumors that are fairly
similar spec-wise to what is written below.
I do must say we live in very interesting times!

***********************

CANON SPORTS ACTION 1Dx mk.II Successor DSLR.

Canon 1Dx-body Style with 6x4.5-type Medium Format Camera:

* 56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer Pattern

* 8192 by 6036 pixels (50 megapixels) at 6.82 microns per photosite

* Global Shutter Sensor with a now-specified 14.5 EV at ISO 100 Dynamic range vs 13.5 EV for 1Dx Mk2
It was explained to us that video shooters could expect a true dynamic range of 14 stops at ISO 800
which is better than even the newly released C700 cinema camera! This looks well for low-light shooting
at high ISO values as the EV drop-off curve is noted to be flatter than the 1Dx Mk2.

* Shutter speed at full frame is now an <<ASTOUNDING>> 25 fps
which is 3 fps higher than specified in our earlier 2016 report!

* 4:4:4 colour sampling at 16 bits per channel RAW and RGB Ultra Wide Gamut

* ISO range is 100 to 51200 with extensions down to 50 and up to 409600

* JPEG-2000 file format wavelet based compression 4:4:4 colour sampling
at up to 16 bits per channel for wide gamut imaging. Normal JPEG is
still available!

* Dual pixel autofocus

* Articulated and rugged OLED Touchscreen with horizontal swivel out to left
and full 360 degree vertical rotate with live-view at 1920 by 1200 pixels.
Entire liveview screen area is touch-enabled for fast autofocusing over
entire sensor area!

* Five User defined and scrollable 25 item touchscreen menus
for creating multiple custom camera option and function layouts!

* onboard GPS and 6-axis MEMS sensor for XYZ rotation and XYZ movement
metadata recording on all still images and periodically within video files

* Two DIGIC processors each with an embedded ultra wide gamut wavelet
image compression core and a wide gamut MPEG4 video compression core

* One USB3 Type-C connector, HDMI connector and One RJ-45 1gb/sec Ethernet connector

* Two CFast slots but NO SD card slots!

* Combined Battery and Internal hard drive grip accessory allowing
<<TWO>> 63.5mm (2.5 inch?) SATA SSD drives for high capacity still
photo and video file storage. We have confirmed that testing was completed
with two inserted 3-terabyte Samsung SSD removeable storage drives!

* 802.11ac Wifi with multiple logon accounts to autosend and <<EXCHANGE>> photos too!
Two Canon MF cameras can obtain photos from each other via peer-to-peer Wifi
and download from external sources to local C-Fast cards and internal SSD drives!

* Confirmation that video recording is supported at DCI 4k (4096x2160),
UHDTV (3840x2160) and HDTV (1920x1080) downsampled from the full sensor
area at 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps, 50 fps, 60 fps, 100 fps and 120 fps.
HDMI output is confirmed clean of any overlays at 4k DCI, 3840 and 1080 resolutions!

* We have confirmed that video recording has eschewed Motion-JPEG
Intraframe compression and gone to Motion-Wavelet intraframe
compression at up to 12 bits per channel 4:4:4 colour sampling.
It is also confirmed to us that MPEG4 interframe compression
at 10 bits per channel 4:2:2 colour sampling is now enabled!

* Canon Clog/Clog2/Clog3 and five User-definable Log file entries are confirmed present.

* 3.5mm audio input jack is present

* We have now confirmed that a more expensive 120 megapixels
at 8-to-10 fps version will be released at the same time!

* It is confirmed that a 50mm and 85mm lens in addition to a 600 mm telephoto were tested
in the wild with four new zoom lenses to be introduced at the same time for the new
medium format mount sizes. It is confirmed that the lenses will contain on-lens LED
displays for easy viewing of statistical information even in low-light situations!

* It is confirmed that a mid-2018 introduction date is specified

* Price for Body-only was given as a range from 12000 Euros to as much as
16000 Euros at introduction! This is <<VERY INEXPENSIVE>> compared with
Hasselblad or Phase One but with a 25 fps burst shooting speed at 50 megapixels!

* It has been confirmed that lenses will not be cheap and from 1.5x to 3x
the price of the premium EF lenses at equivalent focal lengths and at
least twice as heavy! You will need to start working out and beef up
your tripods!

These are exciting times but be prepared to pay very much extra for your lenses!
We think this new Canon MF camera is very much better than Hasselblad and Phase One
for 50 megapixels and would put a severe dent in those storied names if the
120 megapixel version has the same features at a 10 fps shooting speed!


***********************

I don't have any more information than what
I have outlined here, but I have heard other
rumors from various sources that indicate to
me that Canon is absolutely working on a
high-speed, huge-sensor sports/wildlife
shooter camera (50 megapixel MF) and a very
high megapixel count (120+ megapixel MF)
5Ds/r landscape/portrait shooter replacement.

I should also note that while this text does not
say it specifically, my source in the Netherlands
assures me that this is a .M.I.R.R.O.R.L.E.S.S.
large-sensor, high-shutter speed 25 fps at
50 megapixel medium format camera that
looks and feels like a Canon 1Dx2
sports body-like camera!

You heard it here first!
 
Upvote 0
@ harryfilm:

i wonder if your source about a canon MF is a turkish citician living in Netherlands. He might have smoked quite a fair amount of weird stuff to little bit cool down. After some additional beers he might have forgotten his profund mathemathical knowledge:

25fps @50MP's might need 6 Digig processors of actual tech, if a 5div gets 7fps @30 MP's. assuming some progress in compter technics (or that all current bodoies are cippled) 4 processors might be enough. On top of it, Dual CFast might be to slow for this data output, it corresponds to about 150fps 4k footage, with 16bit depth eveen more (my maths knowledge got drauned in beer as well, so i am lazy to figuere this out in detail)

;D
 
Upvote 0
Aug 31, 2014
194
26
56
UK
Re: Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap -- Look for New Medium Format in 2018

HarryFilm said:
I get rumor mail all the time from friends in Europe
and this is what I received in that last week from
friends in the Netherlands who forwarded this
originally German-sourced spec sheet to me
about a new medium format Canon camera
with an absolutely H-U-G-E Canon-sourced
sensor. I've been told sometime 2018 or 2019
this will be announced as it has been worked
on for some time now by Canon. I haven't
changed the text below. It is exactly as
I received it. The text gives an unsubstantiated
indication that the camera has been seen working
out in the wild.

This is an .u.n.s.u.b.s.t.a.n.t.i.a.t.e.d. rumor
from a European source so take it with more
than a few grains of salt but I can't totally
discount it either because I've been hearing
too many other rumors that are fairly
similar spec-wise to what is written below.
I do must say we live in very interesting times!

***********************

CANON SPORTS ACTION 1Dx mk.II Successor DSLR.

Canon 1Dx-body Style with 6x4.5-type Medium Format Camera:

* 56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer Pattern

* 8192 by 6036 pixels (50 megapixels) at 6.82 microns per photosite

* Global Shutter Sensor with a now-specified 14.5 EV at ISO 100 Dynamic range vs 13.5 EV for 1Dx Mk2
It was explained to us that video shooters could expect a true dynamic range of 14 stops at ISO 800
which is better than even the newly released C700 cinema camera! This looks well for low-light shooting
at high ISO values as the EV drop-off curve is noted to be flatter than the 1Dx Mk2.

* Shutter speed at full frame is now an <<ASTOUNDING>> 25 fps
which is 3 fps higher than specified in our earlier 2016 report!

* 4:4:4 colour sampling at 16 bits per channel RAW and RGB Ultra Wide Gamut

* ISO range is 100 to 51200 with extensions down to 50 and up to 409600

* JPEG-2000 file format wavelet based compression 4:4:4 colour sampling
at up to 16 bits per channel for wide gamut imaging. Normal JPEG is
still available!

* Dual pixel autofocus

* Articulated and rugged OLED Touchscreen with horizontal swivel out to left
and full 360 degree vertical rotate with live-view at 1920 by 1200 pixels.
Entire liveview screen area is touch-enabled for fast autofocusing over
entire sensor area!

* Five User defined and scrollable 25 item touchscreen menus
for creating multiple custom camera option and function layouts!

* onboard GPS and 6-axis MEMS sensor for XYZ rotation and XYZ movement
metadata recording on all still images and periodically within video files

* Two DIGIC processors each with an embedded ultra wide gamut wavelet
image compression core and a wide gamut MPEG4 video compression core

* One USB3 Type-C connector, HDMI connector and One RJ-45 1gb/sec Ethernet connector

* Two CFast slots but NO SD card slots!

* Combined Battery and Internal hard drive grip accessory allowing
<<TWO>> 63.5mm (2.5 inch?) SATA SSD drives for high capacity still
photo and video file storage. We have confirmed that testing was completed
with two inserted 3-terabyte Samsung SSD removeable storage drives!

* 802.11ac Wifi with multiple logon accounts to autosend and <<EXCHANGE>> photos too!
Two Canon MF cameras can obtain photos from each other via peer-to-peer Wifi
and download from external sources to local C-Fast cards and internal SSD drives!

* Confirmation that video recording is supported at DCI 4k (4096x2160),
UHDTV (3840x2160) and HDTV (1920x1080) downsampled from the full sensor
area at 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps, 50 fps, 60 fps, 100 fps and 120 fps.
HDMI output is confirmed clean of any overlays at 4k DCI, 3840 and 1080 resolutions!

* We have confirmed that video recording has eschewed Motion-JPEG
Intraframe compression and gone to Motion-Wavelet intraframe
compression at up to 12 bits per channel 4:4:4 colour sampling.
It is also confirmed to us that MPEG4 interframe compression
at 10 bits per channel 4:2:2 colour sampling is now enabled!

* Canon Clog/Clog2/Clog3 and five User-definable Log file entries are confirmed present.

* 3.5mm audio input jack is present

* We have now confirmed that a more expensive 120 megapixels
at 8-to-10 fps version will be released at the same time!

* It is confirmed that a 50mm and 85mm lens in addition to a 600 mm telephoto were tested
in the wild with four new zoom lenses to be introduced at the same time for the new
medium format mount sizes. It is confirmed that the lenses will contain on-lens LED
displays for easy viewing of statistical information even in low-light situations!

* It is confirmed that a mid-2018 introduction date is specified

* Price for Body-only was given as a range from 12000 Euros to as much as
16000 Euros at introduction! This is <<VERY INEXPENSIVE>> compared with
Hasselblad or Phase One but with a 25 fps burst shooting speed at 50 megapixels!

* It has been confirmed that lenses will not be cheap and from 1.5x to 3x
the price of the premium EF lenses at equivalent focal lengths and at
least twice as heavy! You will need to start working out and beef up
your tripods!

These are exciting times but be prepared to pay very much extra for your lenses!
We think this new Canon MF camera is very much better than Hasselblad and Phase One
for 50 megapixels and would put a severe dent in those storied names if the
120 megapixel version has the same features at a 10 fps shooting speed!


***********************

I don't have any more information than what
I have outlined here, but I have heard other
rumors from various sources that indicate to
me that Canon is absolutely working on a
high-speed, huge-sensor sports/wildlife
shooter camera (50 megapixel MF) and a very
high megapixel count (120+ megapixel MF)
5Ds/r landscape/portrait shooter replacement.

I should also note that while this text does not
say it specifically, my source in the Netherlands
assures me that this is a .M.I.R.R.O.R.L.E.S.S.
large-sensor, high-shutter speed 25 fps at
50 megapixel medium format camera that
looks and feels like a Canon 1Dx2
sports body-like camera!

You heard it here first!
WOW!

Not only U.N.S.U.B.S.T.A.N.T.I.A.T.E.D but pure F.A.N.T.A.S.Y. as well!
 
Upvote 0
scyrene said:
Hflm said:
douglaurent said:
If that's the Canon 2017 roadmap, it's more like a highway to hell. The only technological innovation would be a stabilized 85/1.4 - unfortunately the latest Sony, Panasonic and Olympus cameras already turn any 85mm lens on the planet a stabilized one. With the price of that Canon lens it's likely you can buy a Sigma Art 85/1.4 AND a Tamron 85/1.8 VC.

The only exciting questions left about Canon are: when will they release the first mirrorless full frame camera, how much will they cripple it down, and will they be bright enough to use the EF existing mount? While there will be a fusion of an A7R2 and A99II this year from Sony who can effectively replace a 5DsR, 5D4 and 1DXII plus work great with Canon lenses, the current speed of innovation can make us fear Canon will definitely not deliver something comparable in the next 3-5 years.

That is easily 1/10th of a photographers's professional life. The question is: should someone be fanboy enough to carry more tools than necessary, spend more money than necessary and have extreme limitations in workflow over years, just because some Canon marketing gurus in Tokyo think it's best for their business?
I don't know what you expect. I have an A7rii and wouldn't rely solely on it. The 99ii seems to have its quirks, too, with mostly older screwdrive lenses, subpar 70-200/2.8 (and overprized), conflicting reports on AF, sensitivity which isn't close to the -4ev they are marketing it. If you think an A9 is a replacement for everything one needs to wait first what exactly this camera will be and how it performs (again conflicting reports on resolution etc.). OSPDAF has limitations compared to dedicated PDAF (which are not easy to overcome, especially in dim light and with lenses starting strongly OOF, or tracking, due to not acting on the OOF field but in focus field, which prevents phase information as soon as the light rays are within the COC). I find Canon DPAF to be superior on my 5d4. The new Sony camera will be in the 6000+ Euro range, so not a camera for the masses but only a selected few. Sony flash support is something I really curse from time to time (specifically this stupid flash mount which results in tiny plastic flash foots which won't hold tight but leave room to flash wiggle. Every time I turn the head I am afraid to tear the flash off). Your last paragraph is just nonsense. You can use an 5d4 like a mirrorless with DPAF, I do that regularly. DPAF is a great innovation, you can focus with your 200mm from complete OOF down to -4ev on the touch of your finger. My A7rii is hunting like crazy when trying this (and wors so when stopping down to f4 or further). If you can't get along with an 1dxii or 5div you should switch your profession.

Don't waste your breath. Doug is a longterm crank, and Canon could give away a free unicorn with every camera and he'd still complain it had only one horn...

If you think Canon products are already perfect, or don't know or need all the great camera features that are out there now, you probably are wrong on a website that is all about the progress of future releases.

It's also likely that aside from little practical knowledge about today's camera market, you have a very small budget for new products, and a small income out of professional photography and filmmaking. Too bad that those voices support Canon's path of slow innovation, which will hurt Canon users all together in the long run.
 
Upvote 0
Jul 21, 2010
31,265
13,141
douglaurent said:
scyrene said:
Don't waste your breath. Doug is a longterm crank, and Canon could give away a free unicorn with every camera and he'd still complain it had only one horn...

If you think Canon products are already perfect, or don't know or need all the great camera features that are out there now, you probably are wrong on a website that is all about the progress of future releases.

It's also likely that aside from little practical knowledge about today's camera market, you have a very small budget for new products, and a small income out of professional photography and filmmaking. Too bad that those voices support Canon's path of slow innovation, which will hurt Canon users all together in the long run.

Tell us, douglaurent...is it one of your 50 like-minded Canon-hating colleagues, one of the millions of people you claim your viewpoint represents, or a random stranger who pisses in your Wheaties every day?
 
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hmatthes said:
Ladislav said:
No 24-70/2.8 L IS again? :mad:
I use this lens every day and never wanted IS. The 24-70 2.8L II is IMHO the perfect lens.

Not for me. I use IS more often than 2.8 aperture BUT when I need that aperture, I want to have it available on the same lens. Canon doesn't have anything in their offering to satisfy my needs.

When I have space for only one lens, I take 24-70 and I expect to be able to take stills in low light without tripod and reasonable ISO => IS as well as candit portraits of people while freezing the action => 2.8.
 
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