What’s next for the Canon Cinema EOS line

[sanj]

Canon Cinema EOS C700DR has my interest. But only if the body is right. The old body was big and ugly. The c300/500 body isn't pro in my mind. I want a Box like Alexa Mini or red. I want Raw + Prores + DNX in ALL frame rates unlike the c700. Canon I know you can do it!!​

My ears hurt.

 

[Del Paso]

Canon Cinema EOS C700DR has my interest. But only if the body is right. The old body was big and ugly. The c300/500 body isn't pro in my mind. I want a Box like Alexa Mini or red. I want Raw + Prores + DNX in ALL frame rates unlike the c700. Canon I know you can do it!!​

And I want a white chocolate ice-cream!

 

[sanj]

This may seem dumb to many, and is perhaps a dumb question, but will these lenses autofocus like an RF lens does on R5? Thx

 

[cinemanimal]

My ears hurt.

Sorry! I feel like canon needed to hear that loud incase they were listening.

 

[Darecinema]

This may seem dumb to many, and is perhaps a dumb question, but will these lenses autofocus like an RF lens does on R5? Thx

Not at all. Cinema lenses are manual focus lenses with extremely long focus throws allowing for precision focus adjustments with minimal focus breathing. Usually the are operated with a follow focus and an assistant cameraman for focus (1st AC). There are motorized follow focus wheels but to my knowledge no one has devised a way to tap into the autofocus information to drive these motors using the touch screen tap to focus function. That however would be sweeeeeeet.

 

[Darecinema]

And I want a white chocolate ice-cream!

You do realize there are many many chocolate ice creams that are white in color and also varieties of white chocolate ice cream flavors that are also white in color. Not criticizing, just saying if that will bring joy to your life, definitely go get some of that yumminess.

 

[Del Paso]

You do realize there are many many chocolate ice creams that are white in color and also varieties of white chocolate ice cream flavors that are also white in color. Not criticizing, just saying if that will bring joy to your life, definitely go get some of that yumminess.

I'll never forget the one I had in San Francisco a few years ago. Divine...

 

[steve oakley]

Not at all. Cinema lenses are manual focus lenses with extremely long focus throws allowing for precision focus adjustments with minimal focus breathing. Usually the are operated with a follow focus and an assistant cameraman for focus (1st AC). There are motorized follow focus wheels but to my knowledge no one has devised a way to tap into the autofocus information to drive these motors using the touch screen tap to focus function. That however would be sweeeeeeet.

trying to to tie a follow focus motor to a ultrasonic rangefinder has been done with varying degress of sucess. maybe good enough for T2.8 ot 4.0 with S35mm film, but not good enough for 4K+ and wide open. There is zero reason we can't have focus motors in cine lenses. Sure they would have to be a lot bigger to move the mass, take some power, but so what. those are pretty simple engineering problems to solve.

the real problem, which even a millenial at a show a few weeks ago gave me gave me was " we use manual focus in film" coppng a serious attitude I must be some rube after I said when are you going to put AF focus motors inside this well know cinelens brand. She didn't even stop to realize i've been literally shooting longer than she's been alive. when a I'm not even that old DP could see value in AF this harkens to perception and attitude rather than practical application. Remember film vs digital arguements ? especially the ones about how digital could never replace film ? um, ya right, we know how that turned out and AF in cine lenses is exactly the same arguement and mentality all over again. can we skip the middle part and just get AF motors in cine lenses and be done with it ? or at least external FF motors designed to do that job and talk with the camera bodies via generic standard protocol so everybody's gear plays together like MIDI ? sigh !

 

[jvillain]

Wonder what ever happened to the c200 Mk II...

My expectation is the C100 and 200 fall out of the line up. No one wants to pay cinema camera prices for an HD camera these days especially when DSLRs are 8K and you can get a 12K Ursa for about the price of what a new C-100 would cost. Ya ya ya some one will pipe up about all they need is a 640x480 B&W camera but an HD only camera is really niche unless it does 1500 fps or has a DR of 20 stops.

 

[jvillain]

trying to to tie a follow focus motor to a ultrasonic rangefinder has been done with varying degress of sucess. maybe good enough for T2.8 ot 4.0 with S35mm film, but not good enough for 4K+ and wide open. There is zero reason we can't have focus motors in cine lenses. Sure they would have to be a lot bigger to move the mass, take some power, but so what. those are pretty simple engineering problems to solve.

the real problem, which even a millenial at a show a few weeks ago gave me gave me was " we use manual focus in film" coppng a serious attitude I must be some rube after I said when are you going to put AF focus motors inside this well know cinelens brand. She didn't even stop to realize i've been literally shooting longer than she's been alive. when a I'm not even that old DP could see value in AF this harkens to perception and attitude rather than practical application. Remember film vs digital arguements ? especially the ones about how digital could never replace film ? um, ya right, we know how that turned out and AF in cine lenses is exactly the same arguement and mentality all over again. can we skip the middle part and just get AF motors in cine lenses and be done with it ? or at least external FF motors designed to do that job and talk with the camera bodies via generic standard protocol so everybody's gear plays together like MIDI ? sigh !

Autofocus usually means fly by wire which is an issue if you do want to do autofocus. For me autofocus would be great as it would be for people doing doc stuff. But for people doing long form drama etc they are going to want to get their focus pulls just right and not leave it up to the focus ferry.

 

[tooyoung225]

interesting there is no mention of the c50, c90, or C200mkii in this… c50 is suppose to be a box camera, c90 is supposed to be a FF sensor, and both with RF mounts. Since that is where it appears things are headed, I'm surprised there has been no mention of those. I feel like there is also a big need for a Raw capable cinema camera in the sub 10k space (enter c200mkii). Definitely has me curious as to what Canon has up their sleeves...

 

[sanj]

Not at all. Cinema lenses are manual focus lenses with extremely long focus throws allowing for precision focus adjustments with minimal focus breathing. Usually the are operated with a follow focus and an assistant cameraman for focus (1st AC). There are motorized follow focus wheels but to my knowledge no one has devised a way to tap into the autofocus information to drive these motors using the touch screen tap to focus function. That however would be sweeeeeeet.

Since these cameras are RF mount and have dual pixel focus, I could use my RF lenses and get 'tap' focus? I am considering these cameras for minimum crew documentaries. For my features, commercials etc I would use Alexa or Red. Thx.

 

[Darecinema]

Since these cameras are RF mount and have dual pixel focus, I could use my RF lenses and get 'tap' focus? I am considering these cameras for minimum crew documentaries. For my features, commercials etc I would use Alexa or Red. Thx.

Hey Sanj, which cameras are you referring to? I can tell you that the C70 does an amazing job on autofocus with the RF lenses as does the R5, just make sure you adjust your tap to focus speed in the menu (and if you are shooting slo mo don't forget to adjust accordingly or the pull will be waaaayyyy to slow at 120fps) The C70 is currently the only Canon cinema body that RF lenses work on unfortunately. Can't wait for the new line-up honestly. Looking forward to a Full Frame C500 with RF mount but in the meantime I just keep making money with my C70, R5, RP, C300II.

 

[Darecinema]

trying to to tie a follow focus motor to a ultrasonic rangefinder has been done with varying degress of sucess. maybe good enough for T2.8 ot 4.0 with S35mm film, but not good enough for 4K+ and wide open. There is zero reason we can't have focus motors in cine lenses. Sure they would have to be a lot bigger to move the mass, take some power, but so what. those are pretty simple engineering problems to solve.

the real problem, which even a millenial at a show a few weeks ago gave me gave me was " we use manual focus in film" coppng a serious attitude I must be some rube after I said when are you going to put AF focus motors inside this well know cinelens brand. She didn't even stop to realize i've been literally shooting longer than she's been alive. when a I'm not even that old DP could see value in AF this harkens to perception and attitude rather than practical application. Remember film vs digital arguements ? especially the ones about how digital could never replace film ? um, ya right, we know how that turned out and AF in cine lenses is exactly the same arguement and mentality all over again. can we skip the middle part and just get AF motors in cine lenses and be done with it ? or at least external FF motors designed to do that job and talk with the camera bodies via generic standard protocol so everybody's gear plays together like MIDI ? sigh !

Yeah, I love the ability to have autofocus and I can tell you that this new breed of autofocus cameras pull off shots that are pretty much impossible with a human 1st AC. My 1st AC loooovvess the abilty to use Autofocus on some of our shoots. That being said, it's not real to me that they are going to build the focus motors into the cinema lenses themselves, but someone will come along with the "perfect" motor system (one to rule them all) and will solve this problem. I tried the Red Rock system a while back with the laser rangefinder but was a bit too finicky and ended up going back to the old fashioned ways of doing it. However I do a massive quantity of reality, corporate and doc work and the C300s (I,II andI III) and now the C70 are my go-tos and whatever optical differences there may be between the Cinema glass and the RF/EF glass are completely overshadowed by the money saved being able to be a single operator and the frustration saved with the autofocus systems. The next generation of guerilla film makers will drive the need for some innovator to get us that cinema lens focus system, but it's going to be external. At least that's where I'd place my money.

 

[sanj]

Hey Sanj, which cameras are you referring to? I can tell you that the C70 does an amazing job on autofocus with the RF lenses as does the R5, just make sure you adjust your tap to focus speed in the menu (and if you are shooting slo mo don't forget to adjust accordingly or the pull will be waaaayyyy to slow at 120fps) The C70 is currently the only Canon cinema body that RF lenses work on unfortunately. Can't wait for the new line-up honestly. Looking forward to a Full Frame C500 with RF mount but in the meantime I just keep making money with my C70, R5, RP, C300II.

I am talking about the cameras mentioned in this thread. I have the R5 and the autofocus works just fine!

 

[sanj]

This makes me ask: Will these cinema lenses look better, or significantly better, than the autofocus RF lenses in a documentary situation?

 

[sanj]

Yeah, I love the ability to have autofocus and I can tell you that this new breed of autofocus cameras pull off shots that are pretty much impossible with a human 1st AC. My 1st AC loooovvess the abilty to use Autofocus on some of our shoots. That being said, it's not real to me that they are going to build the focus motors into the cinema lenses themselves, but someone will come along with the "perfect" motor system (one to rule them all) and will solve this problem. I tried the Red Rock system a while back with the laser rangefinder but was a bit too finicky and ended up going back to the old fashioned ways of doing it. However I do a massive quantity of reality, corporate and doc work and the C300s (I,II andI III) and now the C70 are my go-tos and whatever optical differences there may be between the Cinema glass and the RF/EF glass are completely overshadowed by the money saved being able to be a single operator and the frustration saved with the autofocus systems. The next generation of guerilla film makers will drive the need for some innovator to get us that cinema lens focus system, but it's going to be external. At least that's where I'd place my money.

I agree with your comment. Have you ever compared the 8k 12 bit video of R5 to C300's? I would love to know if you can see a difference in the IQ. Thank you.

 

[Tidy Media]

My expectation is the C100 and 200 fall out of the line up. No one wants to pay cinema camera prices for an HD camera these days especially when DSLRs are 8K and you can get a 12K Ursa for about the price of what a new C-100 would cost. Ya ya ya some one will pipe up about all they need is a 640x480 B&W camera but an HD only camera is really niche unless it does 1500 fps or has a DR of 20 stops.

The C200 is a 4K camera...

 

[Bob Howland]

This may seem dumb to many, and is perhaps a dumb question, but will these lenses autofocus like an RF lens does on R5

It's not as dumb as you think. Camcorders, such as the recently-announced Canon XF605, have built in autofocus lenses. They may not be good enough to do a feature film with, but they're pretty good.

 

[Antono Refa]

These prime lenses for the RF mount are built off of the current Sumire lenses.

The Sumire 14mm lens is T3.1.

The T1.5 might be a typo. Then again, maybe cine lenses are expensive enough for Canon to make a profitable 14mm f/1.4, while stills lenses aren't.