What are you the most *upset* about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?

[scyrene]

I still don't completely get the issue with the crop factor? Aren't a majority of DSLR sales APS-C? Are all APS-C crop cameras (or those with even smaller sensors) doing 4K DOA?

(I get that you might be upset because this is a FF camera and you feel short changed that it acts as a crop in 4K mode, but that's a slightly different point).

 

[Sharlin]

I still don't completely get the issue with the crop factor? Aren't a majority of DSLR sales APS-C? Are all APS-C crop cameras (or those with even smaller sensors) doing 4K DOA?

(I get that you might be upset because this is a FF camera and you feel short changed that it acts as a crop in 4K mode, but that's a slightly different point).

Probably people are mostly annoyed because the FF lenses they already own now have awkward and unfamiliar focal lengths, especially at the wide end where you need something like the expensive 11-24/4 to emulate your 16-35mm... And using Canon's own crop lenses is not possible so that's not a solution either.

 

[Jack Douglas]

AF point is illuminated according to the manual. The AF all looks extremely close to the 1DX II.

Jack

:'( Seems I was wrong :'( I'd like to know if the illumination, I know I did see some in a Canon promotional, is just the little blink I get, and often don't seem to get, with my 6D.

Jack

 

[scyrene]

I still don't completely get the issue with the crop factor? Aren't a majority of DSLR sales APS-C? Are all APS-C crop cameras (or those with even smaller sensors) doing 4K DOA?

(I get that you might be upset because this is a FF camera and you feel short changed that it acts as a crop in 4K mode, but that's a slightly different point).

Probably people are mostly annoyed because the FF lenses they already own now have awkward and unfamiliar focal lengths, especially at the wide end where you need something like the expensive 11-24/4 to emulate your 16-35mm... And using Canon's own crop lenses is not possible so that's not a solution either.

Thanks! The issue about needing new lenses for the widest end I totally get, especially given the price of the 11-24. Although out of interest, is a lot of filming done at 16-20ish mm FF equivalent? Another thought: buying a third party ultrawide lens is cheaper than getting a dedicated videocamera.

As for awkward and unfamiliar, well there may be a touch of that, but it's only the same as mounting a FF lens on a crop camera. People are fairly used to multiplying by 1.6x (or at least roughly understanding the difference), surely.

Full disclosure: as I said elsewhere, I'm most interested in maximising the reach on distant targets, so a crop is actually an advantage.

Just musing, anyhow.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Yes, I was just musing that given I own the 11-24 (it becomes more modestly wide) and also prefer maximizing reach, since I'm generally using a big white, I like this crop characteristic. After all, I'm forced into cropping maybe 60% of the time with my subjects that are usually birds.

Jack

 

[rrcphoto]

For Photography YES
Videography NO (google it: majority of people say NO)

1.64 crop (On a 4k -full frame camera???)
No Canon LOG
No 4K HDMI output
MJPEG codec (1990 CODEC)
No Slow motion in FullHD or 4K
Internal FullHD recording only 4:2:0 (2016 right?)
No Metabones Speed Booster
No articulated screen

THIS IS THE END OF THE LEGEND FOR CANON!

:-*
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test
http://philipbloom.net/blog/canon5div/

My biggest disappointment with the release of the Canon 5D MKIV is with the video specs.

"For a camera that will have a shelf life of 4 years probably what it gives the user is simply not good enough. Here are the issues:
The 4K is not full frame, it is not even 1.3x crop like the 1DC. It is 1.74x crop which is HUGE. Whilst the depth of field technically won’t be affected by such a crop the field of view is. To replicate the filed of view of a Canon 85mm F1.2 you will need to look at the 50mm F1.2 and your depth of field will be substantially less shallow because of that. This sucks.
The 4K is only up to 30p. The rather nice 1DX MKII that came out earlier this year recorded 4K up to 50p/ 60p and it was with a 1.3x crop like the 1DC.
There is no 4K HDMI out so you are stuck with the ancient motion jpeg format in 4K.
The 4K is DCI 4096×3840, there is no option for UHD 3840×2160
The HD is ALL-I and not motion JPEG (good!), whilst we do get 1080p 50p/60p which which is fine… the 120fps There are no proper video functions that really should be in there. There is no C-Log mode. There is no peaking, there are no zebras. There is still no punch in focus check whilst recording. It’s quite astonishing. I had been asking Canon for peaking on my 1DC for years. It never came."

so?

anyone that was surprised with what the 5D had as far as video after the 1DX Mark II came out .. is a little surprising.

I like philip bloom, and respect his opinion .. but I don't think canon see's this market as an important one.

Sony which is trying to "hit this market" hasn't increased it's marketshare AT ALL over the last 5 years.

so I think canon's looking at it.. and saying .. it's not worth it.

not to mention, there's absolutely no proof and only conjecture that it's even possible for canon to marry both camera control DiGiC and video camera control DiGiC's together. I find it AMAZING how many proclaimed experts in what canon can do or can't do fail to realize that those are two separate products entirely.

are they going to turn the 5D Mark IV into the XC10 that can't even shoot raw? LOL!

really .. all your comments make me think you need this more..

 

[Jack Douglas]

I like that! ;D I think there is someone around that I could borrow from or maybe just rip off some unsuspecting baby.

Jack

 

[Gino]

I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!

I know the jump to 30MP is pretty significant, but 7fps is not exactly lightning fast, so I would think Canon could of gave us a RAW buffer with at least 30 photos before it's full.

If Canon would have used Cfast card, and SD card with UHS-II, they could have gave us more fps, or at the very least a bigger buffer at the current 7 fps...I would have gladly paid for the extra cost if Canon used the better memory card technology!!!

 

[scyrene]

I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!

I know the jump to 30MP is pretty significant, but 7fps is not exactly lightning fast, so I would think Canon could of gave us a RAW buffer with at least 30 photos before it's full.

If Canon would have used Cfast card, and SD card with UHS-II, they could have gave us more fps, or at the very least a bigger buffer at the current 7 fps...I would have gladly paid for the extra cost if Canon used the better memory card technology!!!

Wait, didn't someone say above (or elsewhere) that 21 was the buffer size - that's to say the number of photos it can hold simultaneously? Images aren't written all at once, but one after another, so the actual number of shots you can take before it starts to slow down is slightly larger. Right?

 

[rrcphoto]

I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!

you do realize that the 5d Mark III in specs was 13-18 .. right? get fast cards and you should be fine.

the buffer depth specs are always underrated.

 

[Gino]

I pre-ordered the 5D MKIV, but I'm disappointed with the RAW buffer at 21 photos, which is going to somewhat limit this camera for action photos!!!

you do realize that the 5d Mark III in specs was 13-18 .. right? get fast cards and you should be fine.

the buffer depth specs are always underrated.

yeah, the 5D Mark III buffer is terrible, if you want to shoot full RAW photos to both card slots at the same time, which I always do.... I like to have a back-up RAW photo with the SD slot, just in case the CF card has issues.

The 5D MarkIV caps out at 21 RAW photos to the CF card and 19 RAW photos to the SD card (page 171 of the product manual), and that's with ideal camera condition i.e. fully charged battery etc., which is not very good!

I was expecting (hoping) the 5D MarkIV would have a similar buffer to the 1DX, which is around 35 RAW photos to both CF card slots, until the buffer is full.

I was hoping to replace my 1DX with the new 5D MKIV, because I like the extra megapixels for cropping....I was willing to give up some fps for the extra megapixels.

Hopefully, the real world tests of the 5D MarkIV show better RAW buffer capacity, compared to what Canon lists in the product manual.

P.S. I use the Lexar 1066x speed cards, so yeah, I'm using the fastest cards available

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1022077-REG/lexar_lcf64gcrbna1066_64_gb_pro_compact.html

 

[John2016]

For Photography YES
Videography NO (google it: majority of people say NO)

1.64 crop (On a 4k -full frame camera???)
No Canon LOG
No 4K HDMI output
MJPEG codec (1990 CODEC)
No Slow motion in FullHD or 4K
Internal FullHD recording only 4:2:0 (2016 right?)
No Metabones Speed Booster
No articulated screen

THIS IS THE END OF THE LEGEND FOR CANON!

:-*
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test
http://philipbloom.net/blog/canon5div/

My biggest disappointment with the release of the Canon 5D MKIV is with the video specs.

"For a camera that will have a shelf life of 4 years probably what it gives the user is simply not good enough. Here are the issues:
The 4K is not full frame, it is not even 1.3x crop like the 1DC. It is 1.74x crop which is HUGE. Whilst the depth of field technically won’t be affected by such a crop the field of view is. To replicate the filed of view of a Canon 85mm F1.2 you will need to look at the 50mm F1.2 and your depth of field will be substantially less shallow because of that. This sucks.
The 4K is only up to 30p. The rather nice 1DX MKII that came out earlier this year recorded 4K up to 50p/ 60p and it was with a 1.3x crop like the 1DC.
There is no 4K HDMI out so you are stuck with the ancient motion jpeg format in 4K.
The 4K is DCI 4096×3840, there is no option for UHD 3840×2160
The HD is ALL-I and not motion JPEG (good!), whilst we do get 1080p 50p/60p which which is fine… the 120fps There are no proper video functions that really should be in there. There is no C-Log mode. There is no peaking, there are no zebras. There is still no punch in focus check whilst recording. It’s quite astonishing. I had been asking Canon for peaking on my 1DC for years. It never came."

so?

anyone that was surprised with what the 5D had as far as video after the 1DX Mark II came out .. is a little surprising.

I like philip bloom, and respect his opinion .. but I don't think canon see's this market as an important one.

Sony which is trying to "hit this market" hasn't increased it's marketshare AT ALL over the last 5 years.

so I think canon's looking at it.. and saying .. it's not worth it.

not to mention, there's absolutely no proof and only conjecture that it's even possible for canon to marry both camera control DiGiC and video camera control DiGiC's together. I find it AMAZING how many proclaimed experts in what canon can do or can't do fail to realize that those are two separate products entirely.

are they going to turn the 5D Mark IV into the XC10 that can't even shoot raw? LOL!

really .. all your comments make me think you need this more..

So? People understanding how much this "donkey" already is outdated for video and the Canon fanboys can't not admit it...

Next one:
"Canon has announced the latest DSLR in the seminal 5D line, the 5D Mark IV. It features a 30.4 megapixel sensor for stills, a touchscreen, and 4k video. It’s available for preorder on Amazon and B&H for shipment on September 8. And I won’t be buying one."
http://prolost.com/

 

[John2016]

So people are working out that Canon doesn't want them using the 5DIV for video, Canon wants people spending more for video ...

Some people here don't get this....

 

[Sharlin]

So people are working out that Canon doesn't want them using the 5DIV for video, Canon wants people spending more for video ...

Some people here don't get this....

Do you know what "confirmation bias" means? Or "selection effect"? Look it up. Meanwhile, all the people already using Canon DSLRs for video happily keep doing that without feeling the need to write up passive-aggressive blog posts about it.

 

[Maximilian]

Can live with everything on the spec list, although I liked the resolution to be lower.
But if I don't know the IQ differences between 24 MP and 30 MP I will not complain.

My point of beeing upset is the PRICE.
Especially the pricing here over in Europe.
I hope that a lot of people will vote with their purse to show Canon that a ridiculous price rise of 27 % (in MRSP) for whatever reason is not worth that spec list.

For the next few years I am out of the race for a new body.
As I was already about to skip this generation of camera I am personally not so much affected on this.
But others are.

 

[K]

I'm not upset about anything. But here's a list of things that Canon fell sort on, that is - they could have reasonably done it without the camera moving into another category.


1. 1/200 Sync Speed. Why? Nikon's been offering 1/250. Are we to believe the Nikon shutter is faster and more robust to handle it? I don't think so. This is Canon choosing to cripple. Especially being that Canon knows how important this, this is yet another thing to up sell to the 1DX2.

2. CF / UHS-I. What the heck? UHS-II has been out a while. We can see why though, if Canon added UHS-II, it would be faster than the CF Card slot and that would then anger everyone into wanting CFast to match it. It's either ALL or NONE. With CFast and UHS-II, buffer clearance would be dramatically better - and here lies the reason why. They don't want it being too good for sports or wildlife....

3. 21 shot buffer. This is terrible. I would have thought a 28 shot buffer would have done enough to dodge criticism, offer more functionality too. I seriously doubt a 28 shot buffer on the 5D4 would make anyone say "oh great, I'm skipping the 1DX2" ...a bit paranoid on Canon's part.

4. Token 4K. Yes, I predicted this in threads for a long time here on this board. 4K was an absolute must for Canon, otherwise they'd face serious wrath out there. Well, they provided it in name-only. A token 4K capability. HDMI out is crippled to only 1080. The 4K crop factor is very tight, making most lenses useless. Lack of common, very useful video tools. Awful codec. 4K is there on the specsheet, but it's mostly useless. Videographers across the board are almost in unanimous agreement on that. Canon offered it to get the mainstream review market that casually looks at specs off their back. But they also ensured that it wouldn't be used in a serious capacity. This is to protect 1DX2 and Cinema. However, other companies are offering higher video specs at the same price point, so another case of Canon not competing with the market, and instead beating up their own "in system" users, aka people with huge sums invested in glass. Canon could care less that the hard core users will complain for 4-5 years about it on webforums. They have it on the spec sheet, and major retailers can advertise this.

5. Old USB 3 type connector. USB-C has been out long enough. Takes up less space, and will absolutely be THE standard for many years to come.

6. Battery life. Lower than Nikon by a good percentage.

7. Dynamic Range. Speculation here, but given the 1DX2 and 80D, we're looking at weaker low ISO DR than the competition.

8. ISO. 1/2 stop improvement would have been better than the 1/3 improvement.

9. DPRAW. Mostly gimmick. Can have some use for certain photographers, but if mainstream applications don't allow editing, this will be forgotten.

10. Price. Too high given the features and quality of competitor offerings. It is justifiable in the sense that if you need a little bit of everything, then it is a good value. However, if you're more focused on landscapes, or portraits/stills, sports/wildlife or videography - there are better bodies out there at a lower price. And these other bodies are also fairly decent at other types of photography. Maybe not as jack of all trades the 5D4, but close enough to not be crippled in any one area.

 

[scyrene]

I'm not upset about anything. But here's a list of things that Canon fell sort on, that is - they could have reasonably done it without the camera moving into another category.


1. 1/200 Sync Speed. Why? Nikon's been offering 1/250. Are we to believe the Nikon shutter is faster and more robust to handle it? I don't think so. This is Canon choosing to cripple. Especially being that Canon knows how important this, this is yet another thing to up sell to the 1DX2.

2. CF / UHS-I. What the heck? UHS-II has been out a while. We can see why though, if Canon added UHS-II, it would be faster than the CF Card slot and that would then anger everyone into wanting CFast to match it. It's either ALL or NONE. With CFast and UHS-II, buffer clearance would be dramatically better - and here lies the reason why. They don't want it being too good for sports or wildlife....

3. 21 shot buffer. This is terrible. I would have thought a 28 shot buffer would have done enough to dodge criticism, offer more functionality too. I seriously doubt a 28 shot buffer on the 5D4 would make anyone say "oh great, I'm skipping the 1DX2" ...a bit paranoid on Canon's part.

4. Token 4K. Yes, I predicted this in threads for a long time here on this board. 4K was an absolute must for Canon, otherwise they'd face serious wrath out there. Well, they provided it in name-only. A token 4K capability. HDMI out is crippled to only 1080. The 4K crop factor is very tight, making most lenses useless. Lack of common, very useful video tools. Awful codec. 4K is there on the specsheet, but it's mostly useless. Videographers across the board are almost in unanimous agreement on that. Canon offered it to get the mainstream review market that casually looks at specs off their back. But they also ensured that it wouldn't be used in a serious capacity. This is to protect 1DX2 and Cinema. However, other companies are offering higher video specs at the same price point, so another case of Canon not competing with the market, and instead beating up their own "in system" users, aka people with huge sums invested in glass. Canon could care less that the hard core users will complain for 4-5 years about it on webforums. They have it on the spec sheet, and major retailers can advertise this.

5. Old USB 3 type connector. USB-C has been out long enough. Takes up less space, and will absolutely be THE standard for many years to come.

6. Battery life. Lower than Nikon by a good percentage.

7. Dynamic Range. Speculation here, but given the 1DX2 and 80D, we're looking at weaker low ISO DR than the competition.

8. ISO. 1/2 stop improvement would have been better than the 1/3 improvement.

9. DPRAW. Mostly gimmick. Can have some use for certain photographers, but if mainstream applications don't allow editing, this will be forgotten.

10. Price. Too high given the features and quality of competitor offerings. It is justifiable in the sense that if you need a little bit of everything, then it is a good value. However, if you're more focused on landscapes, or portraits/stills, sports/wildlife or videography - there are better bodies out there at a lower price. And these other bodies are also fairly decent at other types of photography. Maybe not as jack of all trades the 5D4, but close enough to not be crippled in any one area.

I think 'cripple' is becoming the most overused word on these forums. 1/200 vs 1/250 is such a big difference it's *crippling*?

The buffer value of 21 has already been discussed, there's more to it than that figure (apparently the 5D3's rated buffer was lower, but it's not stopped people happily using that camera).

A ~1.6x crop 'makes most lenses useless'? Really?? Tell that to everyone with a 7D, XXD, XXXD etc. (I appreciate you can't mount EF-S lenses on this body, but it only really affects the widest end).

Some of your criticisms have more merit than others, but wow, you're a bit harsh! Compared to the model it replaces, this has more res, higher fps, undoubtedly better DR, better video specs (even if they're not what videographers crave), etc. etc. No camera is perfect; most customers seemed content or even happy with the 5D3; this camera improves on almost all aspects.

 

[K]

Well, isn't that the purpose of the thread?

I like the 5D4 from what I see. To put it in perspective, I feel the video specs complaining is the vast majority of negative heat out there.

I could care less about video....so this camera is fantastic.

Besides, the video for regular folks is excellent. Just not for pros.

 

[Jack Douglas]

"The 4K crop factor is very tight, making most lenses useless."

Wow, and I thought I could use my 300 2.8 II X2 III for bird videos. I'm very disappointed!
Actually, it's my 11-24 that I'd want to use more for WA landscape scenes, so that's another disappointment.

Jack

 

[John2016]

So people are working out that Canon doesn't want them using the 5DIV for video, Canon wants people spending more for video ...

Some people here don't get this....

Do you know what "confirmation bias" means? Or "selection effect"? Look it up. Meanwhile, all the people already using Canon DSLRs for video happily keep doing that without feeling the need to write up passive-aggressive blog posts about it.

SUBJECT: What are you the most *upset* about with the newly leaked 5D4 specs?

Did you even read what pro's like Philip wrote about the 5d MkIV? People been using old Canon cameras for video and the new 2016 5d MkIV is already outdated product. But Canon fanboys would even accept 1080i with 2.5 crop factor...

For the Psychologist here: "Acceptance of reality is key to ending the suffering of emotional pain" :-*
And since you brought it up: Confirmation bias occurs from the direct influence of desire on beliefs.
I guess all the professional reviews are wrong and paid by Sony and Nikon and we are all living in the "CANOMATRIX".