What Canon Body is threatened buy the Nikon D5200?

[crasher8]

Except for the low ISO range is the newly announced D5200 a competitor to the T4i or the 7D? I see it as an upgrade to old D90 users but it must have a Canon rival now doesn't it?

 

[wickidwombat]

all canon crops.

it not a competition anyway. its an outright flogging

when anyone asks what entry level camera to get this is my answer D5200 and Nikkor 18-200 VR II lens
its an awesome supertele much mcuh better the and canon EF-S one

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Nikon is not really threatening any Canon camera, and Canon is not threatening Nikon.
Each have their proponents, but buyers of that level of camera are most often guided by the price. They go down to Best Buy, and checkout the price of a camera / lens kit and, if it looks professional to them, they buy it. Then, it sits in a closet because the images all look out of focus due to the shallow depth of field, and the controls are too complicated.
Of course, most of those who post here know what they are doing, but they are also a tiny minority.

I've bought many (un)used cameras locally from the closets of buyers who went back to point and shoot cameras because they like everything to be in focus, and they like the ease of use.

My advice to someone wanting a DSLR is to first help them to determine if they really understand what they are getting into. I gave my daughter one of my Canon DSLR's and lenses, I think it is gathering dust as well, since she prefers the old Nikon CP-990 I gave her many years back. She mostly takes photos of projects she has made to list on Etsy or Ebay, and the CP-990 is fantastic for that.

 

[that1guyy]

Nikon is not really threatening any Canon camera, and Canon is not threatening Nikon.
Each have their proponents, but buyers of that level of camera are most often guided by the price. They go down to Best Buy, and checkout the price of a camera / lens kit and, if it looks professional to them, they buy it. Then, it sits in a closet because the images all look out of focus due to the shallow depth of field, and the controls are too complicated.
Of course, most of those who post here know what they are doing, but they are also a tiny minority.

I've bought many (un)used cameras locally from the closets of buyers who went back to point and shoot cameras because they like everything to be in focus, and they like the ease of use.

My advice to someone wanting a DSLR is to first help them to determine if they really understand what they are getting into. I gave my daughter one of my Canon DSLR's and lenses, I think it is gathering dust as well, since she prefers the old Nikon CP-990 I gave her many years back. She mostly takes photos of projects she has made to list on Etsy or Ebay, and the CP-990 is fantastic for that.

Oh please. No need to be so elitist. Give people more credit. Most people aren't that dumb. Yeah there are many who just use auto on their dslr, but many consumers actually want to learn and that's the reason why they buy the camera in the first place. And these days, people know what specs are and can tell which one is better. If they can't, most people have friends who do know to ask for advice. I mean, people get started somehow right? I started using a DSLR without a clue what any of the settings were but I learned.

 

[expatinasia]

I do not think Mt Spokane Photography is being elitist. We have all probably bought something with good intentions and never get round to using it, or use it for a while then move on to something else. Whether it is a squash racket, table tennis table, home gym or a camera it is all the same principle. Just look at the microwave, everyone knows that home cooked, freshly prepared food tastes better but how many people use microwaves to reheat frozen c**p.

I've bought many (un)used cameras locally from the closets of buyers who went back to point and shoot cameras because they like everything to be in focus, and they like the ease of use.

Now, just need to find those 1D Xs gathering dust somewhere. There must be at least one or two out there....

 

[pdirestajr]

I don't have any actual stats to add proof to the conversation above, but I don't think the majority of consumers even know what a sensor is and how it's size plays any role in a digital photograph. This doesn't mean they are "dumb", just maybe they have different requirements from a consumer product than geeky high ISO performances- ie: price, ergonomics, size, etc.

 

[Aglet]

all canon crops.
it not a competition anyway. its an outright flogging..

+1
and at a good price point too.
Let's see how the new, Toshiba-made, sensor performs. It's supposed to be an improvement over the D3200's.
I'm certainly watching this one closely but won't pounce on one until the reviews are out, AF performance shows its worth in this body.. and maybe even the price drops a little.
LOTS of features in a compact body!

 

[sanj]

Nikon is not really threatening any Canon camera, and Canon is not threatening Nikon.
Each have their proponents, but buyers of that level of camera are most often guided by the price. They go down to Best Buy, and checkout the price of a camera / lens kit and, if it looks professional to them, they buy it. Then, it sits in a closet because the images all look out of focus due to the shallow depth of field, and the controls are too complicated.
Of course, most of those who post here know what they are doing, but they are also a tiny minority.

I've bought many (un)used cameras locally from the closets of buyers who went back to point and shoot cameras because they like everything to be in focus, and they like the ease of use.

My advice to someone wanting a DSLR is to first help them to determine if they really understand what they are getting into. I gave my daughter one of my Canon DSLR's and lenses, I think it is gathering dust as well, since she prefers the old Nikon CP-990 I gave her many years back. She mostly takes photos of projects she has made to list on Etsy or Ebay, and the CP-990 is fantastic for that.

Oh please. No need to be so elitist. Give people more credit. Most people aren't that dumb. Yeah there are many who just use auto on their dslr, but many consumers actually want to learn and that's the reason why they buy the camera in the first place. And these days, people know what specs are and can tell which one is better. If they can't, most people have friends who do know to ask for advice. I mean, people get started somehow right? I started using a DSLR without a clue what any of the settings were but I learned.

Not elitist at all. He right mostly in my opinion. At the same time there are people like you as well. And am sure their numbers will increase!

 

[Chosenbydestiny]

I think both companies stagger their models more than an actual direct competition. For example, the Canon 7D fits somewhere between the Nikon D5100 and the Nikon D7000, some might argue that for certain features but it's always been that way. A rebel was definitely better than a Nikon D40 back in the day and it was more expensive. As for the pro level bodies, they're definitely a lot more competitive with features and pricing to a point where people may want to do something silly like switch over a measly DXO score and a couple hundred dollars or so. =P

 

[weekendshooter]

I think both companies stagger their models more than an actual direct competition. For example, the Canon 7D fits somewhere between the Nikon D5100 and the Nikon D7000, some might argue that for certain features but it's always been that way. A rebel was definitely better than a Nikon D40 back in the day and it was more expensive. As for the pro level bodies, they're definitely a lot more competitive with features and pricing to a point where people may want to do something silly like switch over a measly DXO score and a couple hundred dollars or so. =P

the 7D is definitely above the D7000. The lines now look roughly like:

7D
D7000
D5200
T4i
T3i - D5100
D3200
D3100 - T3

Not sure where the 60D fits in anymore, since it's now eclipsed in every way but its ergonomics by the T4i and D5200. It's clear that Canon has a hole in the lineup where a 70D should be.

Nikon has not had a full-sized, high-speed crop body to compete with the 7D since the ancient D300S, which is somehow still available new and has not been replaced.

IMO at the current prices, the D7000 is a huge steal and the best camera of them all for the price. $900 body only for a mostly magnesium body, 6 fps, 100% prism viewfinder, in-body AF motor, and that fantastic Sony sensor.

 

[Marsu42]

Not sure where the 60D fits in anymore

The 60d is/will be phased out, the swivel screen model now is the 650d (with 60d-style af, actually a bit better).

What Canon Body is threatened buy the Nikon D5200?

None, after the experiences with the delays, the initial 5d3/24-70ii price and the 6d features it's clear non-Rebel users (who just own the kit lens) very seldom switch and Canon can get away with just about everything - people complain, but that's about it.

A few professionals who really need the competition's features might jump ship or buy Nikon in addition to Canon (like the high mp d800) - but for the rest the loss when selling Canon is too big, the feel of Nikon is too different, and last not least only Canon runs Magic Lantern.

 

[ishdakuteb]

Except for the low ISO range is the newly announced D5200 a competitor to the T4i or the 7D? I see it as an upgrade to old D90 users but it must have a Canon rival now doesn't it?

instead of answering your question. i am going to ask, "how many canon 7d owners have sold theirs to buy canon t4i even though they are all know that t4i is better in low light capability than the one that they are having?" if you can answer this question, then you probably find out what is the answer to your question above. thought that i do not need to mention that changing gears is a major decision since one will lose lots of money when making a change the whole system...

just a thought...

 

[sandymandy]

None, after the experiences with the delays, the initial 5d3/24-70ii price and the 6d features it's clear non-Rebel users (who just own the kit lens) very seldom switch and Canon can get away with just about everything - people complain, but that's about it.

I remember when i got into photography the 5d mk2 was announced. People opened threads and complained about it being overpriced and such. Many people came up with "I stick with my old trusty 5d!". When the 5dmk2 was established it was worshipped and like the ultimate camera to get.

And now exactly the same happened when the 5d mk3 came out. "Overpriced, bad DR compared to Nikon" and so on. And now? Yes you guess right...(nearly) everybody thinks the 5dmk3 is such an awesome camera.

Its just complaining cuz people want to complain. Im sure if u are into something else (cars, fishing rods, RC cars, just something) the exact same thing happens in these forums. Good example are World of Warcraft Forums Its a major complain fest there but yet the game is played by over 10 Mio people constantly.

Im gonna stick with Canon cuz i like their L lenses and the nifty fifty entry lens which is somewhat legendary.

If i had to care that much about DR +- id probably be a pro with enough money to buy whatever camera i want. For my hobby i think its just ridculous if Id complain about such stuff.

 

[ishdakuteb]

thought that i would share this. just happen to get in to see what d5200 images look like from nikon site and find out this: sample images 3 was picked out since it is with highest iso. i downloaded it but exif shows that the image belongs to nikon d800e with iso of 100.

i was like "what the heck"... as if nikon marketing team see this message, please ask your team, developer team and QA team to have little more solid performance.

 

[Chosenbydestiny]

I think both companies stagger their models more than an actual direct competition. For example, the Canon 7D fits somewhere between the Nikon D5100 and the Nikon D7000, some might argue that for certain features but it's always been that way. A rebel was definitely better than a Nikon D40 back in the day and it was more expensive. As for the pro level bodies, they're definitely a lot more competitive with features and pricing to a point where people may want to do something silly like switch over a measly DXO score and a couple hundred dollars or so. =P

the 7D is definitely above the D7000. The lines now look roughly like:

7D
D7000
D5200
T4i
T3i - D5100
D3200
D3100 - T3

Not sure where the 60D fits in anymore, since it's now eclipsed in every way but its ergonomics by the T4i and D5200. It's clear that Canon has a hole in the lineup where a 70D should be.

Nikon has not had a full-sized, high-speed crop body to compete with the 7D since the ancient D300S, which is somehow still available new and has not been replaced.

IMO at the current prices, the D7000 is a huge steal and the best camera of them all for the price. $900 body only for a mostly magnesium body, 6 fps, 100% prism viewfinder, in-body AF motor, and that fantastic Sony sensor.

You're right. Like I said, arguably better in general, for people who think better ISO and AF performance are all that's needed to make an entire camera. I personally do like the 7D better, it just felt way better in my hands than my brother's D7000. The frame rate was very useful as well, just not for me since I rarely shoot fast moving subjects. Video looked so much better on the 7D as well, to my eyes. I'd have kept it if I didn't need another 5D mark III for work. I'm actually excited to see what the new 7D mark II (if that's the name of the model) will bring as well as the 70D as I do actually miss the flip out screen for some situations

 

[paul13walnut5]

@Mt Spokane Photography

Spot on bud! Not elitest. Pragmatic. When I was a student I worked in camera retail. We had the top end pro guys coming in, but our main business was the enthusiast and consumer market. The pro guys came in seldom and bought big. The enthusiasts came in regularly and bought the latest, often trading in their cherished decent kit that was a couple of years old (brilliant for a poor student with a generous staff discount on used) and the consumers came in, with a whim, would buy an EOS300 or Nikon F65 that you knew would get used twice before being resigned to the cupboard.

I used to point such folk in the direction of Olympus Mju's (Epics) selling loads on the basis that it fits in a pocket, was tough, was fairly inexpensive, easy to use and had a good lens capable of very decent pics. Quite often they would come back in after 6 months and buy a Mju.

Horses for courses, and not elitest. There is inverted snobbery on all sorts of levels, the folk who moan that any chump with a DSLR can put pros out of business by calling themselves a wedding photographer can't then turn round and say it's elitist to tell the truth.

I've crossed swords on here with folk who've spent more money on their hobby kit than I've spent on a car, yet their grasp on some of the technical aspects is poor to say the least, and some of their work... they'd be better served with a Mju.

But hey, free world and all that. Just as chumps are free to buy DSLRs to shoot in auto, Mt Spokane is free to point that out, and I am free to agree with him.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Except for the low ISO range is the newly announced D5200 a competitor to the T4i or the 7D? I see it as an upgrade to old D90 users but it must have a Canon rival now doesn't it?

Canon EOS T4i is the current competitor for Nikon D5200
Canon EOS 7D is not a competition to D5200 ... 7D is a far superior camera to D5200 in almost every aspect.
Arguably the upgrade to Nikon D90 is D7000
Having said that there is no "threat" for either Nikon D5200 or Canon 650D/T4i ... they both have their fair share of the market and these models get replaced pretty much every year with a newer model.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

I think both companies stagger their models more than an actual direct competition. For example, the Canon 7D fits somewhere between the Nikon D5100 and the Nikon D7000, some might argue that for certain features but it's always been that way.

Yes they do stagger their models when it comes to "higher end" corp bodies i.e. 60D, D300s, D7000, 7D etc ... but Canon D7000 fits in between Canon 60D & Canon 7D. Nikon D5100 is more of an entry level model (one tier above D3200).

 

[docholliday]

@paul13walnut5 and Mt Spokane Photography

That is definitely right on...I started shooting on medium format (RB/RZ, twin-lens and on to Hasselblad). You only had 10/20 shots, so you took your time and made each frame count. End result was that it made you slow down, study your frames, and in the end, got what you wanted with usually the first shot. Then, there were the wasted rolls where you suddenly realized your (hand) meter was set wrong and you under/over exposed by two stops.

Portrait work then was done by seasoned pro(ficient)s who got your shot in one or two frames and the result looked like it was painted by an old master. Nowadays, everybody has a DSLR or P&S that's "20mp" so that MUST put out pro results. The end result is that people feel "professional" portrait work is either 1) the Walmart portrait studio or 2) easy to do themselves at home with their camera. Some people realize the fault in this and they seek out the hard-working, well-versed portrait shooters to get a timeless image. Others have just decided that the (realistically, poor) work they are getting is just "good enough".

Then, you have the pro labs, with people who are well studied and skill at color correction, cropping, and generally getting the best image from the neg/file. They spend hours calibrating their equipment, balancing chemicals and mastering their craft. But, suddenly, it's now acceptable (or to some "professional") quality to have the prints done at the local CVS/Walmart by somebody who doesn't even know the color wheel, let alone how to deal with a RA-4 process that's too hot or putting out prints that are too magenta. They probably didn't even notice that the print was off color.

Now, I shoot mostly for commercial clients, doing large ad/poster/billboard stuff. I shoot my old 1DsMarkIII thats "ONLY" 21mp. I used to do a lot of portrait work and all that stuff. However, I came to the realization that the hours of prep to build a set, paint a background, light that set, block it from all flare for the best contrast, choose the proper props/wardrobe to match the client was pretty much a waste of time - they just didn't care. Personally, I don't use any of the new features - low light, etc. I usually shoot at ISO100-400, full heavy tripod, flash or studio strobe if needed or long exposure if not. I have no need for that 1Dx.

It's not being elitest, but rather what the state of the market is. There's very little care about the output nowadays. It's about the 900000 frames from the cellphone cameras, uploaded to Facebo*k or some other website. Oh, you want "artistic"? Just push it to some online site that'll smoosh all the pixels around, mute the color, and viola! If not, just hit a few buttons and HDR-color boost-add artistic frame-move the camera around during a (unknown to them) 5 second exposure-add 9 gels to the flash for "effect"-who needs a tripod-set the $3000 lens to f1.2 (even though the subject requires much more DoF to be in focus)-kick in the 9fps mode will get you the "perfect" shot.

Most people never look at their shoebox of images from 20 years ago, until a wedding or funeral - and yes, I've shot those too. It's the same nowadays. Just push it online, no matter what the quality/composition/etc and watch the "it's great" comments fly in. They'll go buy that $300 camera that auto does all this AND pushes it online for them automatically. They don't need (or want) the $900 body. They may buy that once, realize it doesn't do everything automatically, and then go back to a P&S that does. Others will take that P&S and go become a "wedding photographer". They'll say that it's "their style". And, the market will bear it as there are people who'll think that's what wedding photographs should look like. I've had clients ask me if I could make all of their wedding pictures look like Instacrap shots.

It's what the market sees as mainstream, so it'll carry on, just as I will carry on using my OLD 1Ds3 - there's nothing "elite" about that.

 

[paul13walnut5]

@docholliday

Most people never look at their shoebox of images from 20 years ago, until a wedding or funeral - and yes, I've shot those too.

True. My Aunt gave me some photographs of my Grandparents, who have been dead 20 years now, some of as I remember them- as pensioners, but also photographs of them as a young couple, of my Mum and Aunt as kids. Photo's I'd never seen before. And pretty good quality, in terms of archival at least, usual family box brownie pics of a certain age. Absolutely priceless to me, and probably nobody but me. And some of them just bring back the most treasured memories. And I could cry typing this. And not a megapixel in sight.