What do people want to see in the Canon EOS R1? PetaPixel gives their thoughts

[vikingar]

For whatever reason there is more dynamic range with the mechanical shutter.

Some sensors apparently read out faster if the bit depth is reduced. So to reduce rolling shutter and improve FPS that's what they do in ES.
If the sensor is fast enough (some newer ones already are) or instant (global shutter), or just designed differently, reducing bit depth and dynamic range will no longer be necessary.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Some sensors apparently read out faster if the bit depth is reduced. So to reduce rolling shutter and improve FPS that's what they do in ES.
If the sensor is fast enough (some newer ones already are) or instant (global shutter), or just designed differently, reducing bit depth and dynamic range will no longer be necessary.

I do not know of any cameras on the market that have the same dynamic range with both ES and MS.
The Z 9 has worse dynamic range compared to cameras with mechanical shutters.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Some sensors apparently read out faster if the bit depth is reduced. So to reduce rolling shutter and improve FPS that's what they do in ES.
If the sensor is fast enough (some newer ones already are) or instant (global shutter), or just designed differently, reducing bit depth and dynamic range will no longer be necessary.

The R3 outputs 14-bits with both mechanical and electronic shutter, but the dynamic range is still about 2/3-stop higher at base ISO with mechanical shutter.

 

[AlanF]

The R3 outputs 14-bits with both mechanical and electronic shutter, but the dynamic range is still about 2/3-stop higher at base ISO with mechanical shutter.

That's interesting - I had never checked that.

 

[cayenne]

So...Sony throws out the A9 with global shutter.

A lot of folks on this and other R1 threads had GS on their wish lists, many here said it couldn't be done yet.

Sony apparently has done it...with IBIS, pre-shooting, etc...and a lot of other pie in the sky wish list items.

Did Canon do it on the R1?

Thoughts?

 

[vikingar]

So...Sony throws out the A9 with global shutter.

A lot of folks on this and other R1 threads had GS on their wish lists, many here said it couldn't be done yet.

Sony apparently has done it...with IBIS, pre-shooting, etc...and a lot of other pie in the sky wish list items.

Did Canon do it on the R1?

Thoughts?

We'll have to see how well it works on the A9III, especially noise performance. Sony does have a history of releasing next-gen tech products with sometimes serious flaws.

But no doubt the future is shutter-less, so if the R1 doesn't get the global shutter the R1 MkII certainly will.

 

[Czardoom]

So...Sony throws out the A9 with global shutter.

A lot of folks on this and other R1 threads had GS on their wish lists, many here said it couldn't be done yet.

Sony apparently has done it...with IBIS, pre-shooting, etc...and a lot of other pie in the sky wish list items.

Did Canon do it on the R1?

Thoughts?

If Canon doesn't do it, they will be killed on social media and YouTube. Influencers are already saying the A9 III "Changes Everything!" People will all say they are switching to Sony, and some no doubt will. And many of them will end up with a camera with all this latest great tech...that they never will use, or that their current camera without Global Shutter already does just fine. I own an Olympus OM-1 that can do 120 fps. Never have I ever come close to using that number. Everything I do including shooting fast birds is done at much lower FPS. The most I ever use is 50 FPS in pre-capture mode. And that can be such a pain to scroll through all the pics. The stacked sensor already eliminates rolling shutter issues. I don't need 1/80,000the shutter speed. Apparently base ISO is 250, but Sony says that dynamic Range is not effected. Not saying that there are some who will find the Global Shutter remarkable. But, in all likelihood, the internet being what it is, it will be over-hyped and Sony fans will be more obnoxious than ever. And yet, Sony still can't make a camera that is comfortable to hold. How odd is that for the tech leader?

 

[cayenne]

We'll have to see how well it works on the A9III, especially noise performance. Sony does have a history of releasing next-gen tech products with sometimes serious flaws.

But no doubt the future is shutter-less, so if the R1 doesn't get the global shutter the R1 MkII certainly will.

I'm wondering if in 2024 we'll see an unexpected release of the R3 II, and the R1 will be pushed off another year or so....?

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I'm wondering if in 2024 we'll see an unexpected release of the R3 II, and the R1 will be pushed off another year or so....?

The a9 III would also be a threat to the R3 II.
Canon would need to retool both cameras.

 

[DhlcadR6]

If Canon doesn't do it, they will be killed on social media and YouTube. Influencers are already saying the A9 III "Changes Everything!" People will all say they are switching to Sony, and some no doubt will. And many of them will end up with a camera with all this latest great tech...that they never will use, or that their current camera without Global Shutter already does just fine. I own an Olympus OM-1 that can do 120 fps. Never have I ever come close to using that number. Everything I do including shooting fast birds is done at much lower FPS. The most I ever use is 50 FPS in pre-capture mode. And that can be such a pain to scroll through all the pics. The stacked sensor already eliminates rolling shutter issues. I don't need 1/80,000the shutter speed. Apparently base ISO is 250, but Sony says that dynamic Range is not effected. Not saying that there are some who will find the Global Shutter remarkable. But, in all likelihood, the internet being what it is, it will be over-hyped and Sony fans will be more obnoxious than ever. And yet, Sony still can't make a camera that is comfortable to hold. How odd is that for the tech leader?

Sony is paying to buy the influencers. They don't switch. Sony sponsors them. Sony has unlimited PR money. Canon nowadays are not spending much on influencers and make some decent surprise products. (RF28, 100-300, 200-800, 10-20)
Canon looks defeated in short term but in a long term they will survive and hold up to Sony. Sony is going into the complacent state much earlier than Canon did.

The a9 III would also be a threat to the R3 II.
Canon would need to retool both cameras.

R3 was a MSRP 4999USD machine. Without GS and maintain the MSRP is still a win and slaps into anti-Canon faces. They were the first to call out Canon bringing overpriced 24MP cameras while they managed to put 5999USD a9iii. The double-standard is so strong.

 

[Czardoom]

The a9 III would also be a threat to the R3 II.
Canon would need to retool both cameras.

In terms of PR and social media, Canon would need to add global shutter to the R! and R# II.
In terms of the camera's ability, Canon can continue to use a stacked sensor. Gear-heads will shout loud and long. Photographers will realize that - with a few exceptions - the really fast readout speed of a stacked sensor gives them the same results.

 

[Michael Clark]

QPAF could lead to 1x/4x resolution (e.g. 30/120 MP or 45/180 MP) rather than 1x/2x as suggested. 1x/4x is much easier to manage since it only requires binning, whereas 1x/2x requires interpolation. Canon DPAF sensors already have twice as many pixels as advertised, so maybe not as much of a stretch as it might seem and a slower readout/processing time on the high MP mode wouldn't offend most users. As limited as the use cases are, the high res mode on R5 shows that the extra detail captured can be used. In a still image situation, the result can be stunning.

It's not that simple with Bayer Masked sensors (or any color filter array, for that matter).

 

[Dragon]

It's not that simple with Bayer Masked sensors (or any color filter array, for that matter).

The phones are using quad Bayer arrays and extracting hi-res images (in spite of the tiny pixels), so it seems that a full decoded 45MP QPAF sensor would produce a similar increase (i.e. 180MP) in resolution with larger pixels. The resulting color resolution would probably be much like video with 4:2:0 coding, but that is the standard for a majority of video. At this point, LR classic even knows how to manage a 48MP RAW from the new iPhones, so not a huge stretch to see something similar on a Canon. The 3x3 shift in the high res mode recently introduced to the R5 also suggests that Canon my be exploring that path, since that shift pattern is very different from what others have been doing for high res modes.

 

[Dragon]

That's interesting - I had never checked that.

View attachment 212353

It is all about A/D settling time.

 

[Del Paso]

If Canon doesn't do it, they will be killed on social media and YouTube. Influencers are already saying the A9 III "Changes Everything!" People will all say they are switching to Sony, and some no doubt will. And many of them will end up with a camera with all this latest great tech...that they never will use, or that their current camera without Global Shutter already does just fine. I own an Olympus OM-1 that can do 120 fps. Never have I ever come close to using that number. Everything I do including shooting fast birds is done at much lower FPS. The most I ever use is 50 FPS in pre-capture mode. And that can be such a pain to scroll through all the pics. The stacked sensor already eliminates rolling shutter issues. I don't need 1/80,000the shutter speed. Apparently base ISO is 250, but Sony says that dynamic Range is not effected. Not saying that there are some who will find the Global Shutter remarkable. But, in all likelihood, the internet being what it is, it will be over-hyped and Sony fans will be more obnoxious than ever. And yet, Sony still can't make a camera that is comfortable to hold. How odd is that for the tech leader?

"How odd is that for the tech leader?"

I'd rather speak of the "specs leader"

 

[Juppeck]

I also think that many features are overrated in their usefulness and rarely pose a problem. I think it's good that this problem now appears to have been solved.
It's like all news. Be it IBIS, BSI sensor, special autofocus modes, etc., Canon will also position itself towards global shutter. I would even argue that the R1, as the crowning achievement of Canon's new DSLM technology, will include all of these features and a few more.
Personally, the overall package is much more important to me than the individual feature. This includes a well-thought-out user interface. Ergonomics is particularly important. A body that can accommodate larger lenses must fit well in the hand and remain operable without barriers. Canon once pioneered this and has also found a good balance between size, shape and weight. Sony hasn't always been very happy with the form.
Their sensor has always been sensational and Sony always surprises the photography world. This time the long-awaited global shutter. Given the hype surrounding it, how often the general photographer is actually confronted with the rolling shutter problem seems to happen very often. I've only had a handful of problem pictures myself so far. Well-known photographers don't have much more. But owning a camera with a global shutter certainly looks good in the imagination and without a doubt enhances the photographer - at least in one's own perception.

 

[Quack]

I also think that many features are overrated in their usefulness and rarely pose a problem. I think it's good that this problem now appears to have been solved.
It's like all news. Be it IBIS, BSI sensor, special autofocus modes, etc., Canon will also position itself towards global shutter. I would even argue that the R1, as the crowning achievement of Canon's new DSLM technology, will include all of these features and a few more.
Personally, the overall package is much more important to me than the individual feature. This includes a well-thought-out user interface. Ergonomics is particularly important. A body that can accommodate larger lenses must fit well in the hand and remain operable without barriers. Canon once pioneered this and has also found a good balance between size, shape and weight. Sony hasn't always been very happy with the form.
Their sensor has always been sensational and Sony always surprises the photography world. This time the long-awaited global shutter. Given the hype surrounding it, how often the general photographer is actually confronted with the rolling shutter problem seems to happen very often. I've only had a handful of problem pictures myself so far. Well-known photographers don't have much more. But owning a camera with a global shutter certainly looks good in the imagination and without a doubt enhances the photographer - at least in one's own perception.

Just a total guess on my part, of course, but I expect the R1 to have a stacked sensor, not global shutter. I expect the R1 to be a 45MP camera and doubt that they have advanced beyond what Sony has accomplished with global shutter in terms of being able to go beyond 24 MP.
Their stacked sensor will have a really fast read out speed so that rolling shutter will be a non-issue, their fps will be very high, and spec wise will be as good as the A1...and they will be killed on social media for being "way behind!"

 

[DhlcadR6]

...and they will be killed on social media for being "way behind!"

Canon always take the hat of "way behind" Only Sony is correct in everything and you are sinned for using Canon. Nikon gets pardoned because they pay Sony enough to join their CMOS-masterrace club

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Canon always take the hat of "way behind" Only Sony is correct in everything and you are sinned for using Canon. Nikon gets pardoned because they pay Sony enough to join their CMOS-masterrace club

Whenever Canon takes the lead it is always "Who needs that?" until Sony adopts it later then everyone needs it.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Whenever Canon takes the lead it is always "Who needs that?" until Sony adopts it later then everyone needs it.

Nikon’s glossary entry on ED glass: “Calcium fluorite crystals were once used to correct this problem in telephoto lenses, but the substance cracked easily and was sensitive to temperature changes. So Nikon created ED glass, which offers all the benefits, but none of the drawbacks of calcium fluorite-based glass.”

Nikon’s new entry on fluorite elements, once they started using them (decades after Canon, though in fairness Nikon has used fluorite in microscope objectives for decades): “Fluorite is a monocrystal optical material that features a high transmission rate within both the infrared and ultraviolet zones. With its superb anomalous dispersion properties, fluorite intensely blocks the secondary spectrum in order to effectively correct chromatic aberration within the visible light spectrum – something that is more difficult to achieve at longer focal lengths. It is also significantly lighter than optical glass, giving you a more effective lens with less weight.”

For some reason, their newer glossary entries on ED elements also fail to mention all those horrible drawbacks of fluorite elements.