What's Next for Canon?

[Zv]

Whoever it was that said "no news is good news" was obviously not a Canon fan!

I'm quite happy with the camera situation at the moment. I don't require 40MP or care about mirrorless all that much.

I do care about lenses though. It would be nice to hear about a lens release before xmas. Maybe that 50? Hear Nikon have announced a new 58mm 1.4, where's our xmas prezzie? ???

 

[Pag]

I'm a photo guy, not a video guy. But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

 

[unfocused]

I just saw the weekend add from the largest photo&video shop in Norway. They had a full pager in the biggest newspaper in Norway. And this page was clinically free of Canon content. Sony A7, A7R and DMC-RX10, Nikon D5300, Fujifilm X-E2 and XQ1, Panasonic GM1 and .... no Canon. This is the first time I seen one of these with NO Canon offer.

So I repeat; The road to oblivion and to become the Nokia of the photography world is not that long ...

Let me explain something about advertising. The brands that show up in a retailer's ad are not chosen by the retailer based on what is or is not selling. They are selected based on whatever manufacturer has the best advertising promotion going on at the time.

Retailers get reimbursed for advertising a manufacturer's product. The terms of that reimbursement can vary based on any number of factors. Sometimes the advertising promotion is tied to the retailer stocking a particular package or buying a minimum number of units.

For the retailer, the primary concern is maximizing their advertising dollars. They build their ads around the brands that are giving them the most money/credit for advertising the product.

This is a gross oversimplification, but the main thing to understand is that there are way too many other factors to presume that the appearance or non-appearance of a specific brand in one specific ad means anything significant.

 

[unfocused]

I'm a photo guy, not a video guy. But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

Yeah. Not gonna happen. Two different mediums. Very different purposes. One is about the narrative. The other is about the moment.

 

[Loswr]

I'm a photo guy, not a video guy. But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

Yeah. Not gonna happen. Two different mediums. Very different purposes. One is about the narrative. The other is about the moment.

Clearly, you guys haven't seen the photos and newspapers in the Harry Potter movies...

 

[Eldar]

I just saw the weekend add from the largest photo&video shop in Norway. They had a full pager in the biggest newspaper in Norway. And this page was clinically free of Canon content. Sony A7, A7R and DMC-RX10, Nikon D5300, Fujifilm X-E2 and XQ1, Panasonic GM1 and .... no Canon. This is the first time I seen one of these with NO Canon offer.

So I repeat; The road to oblivion and to become the Nokia of the photography world is not that long ...

Let me explain something about advertising. The brands that show up in a retailer's ad are not chosen by the retailer based on what is or is not selling. They are selected based on whatever manufacturer has the best advertising promotion going on at the time.

Retailers get reimbursed for advertising a manufacturer's product. The terms of that reimbursement can vary based on any number of factors. Sometimes the advertising promotion is tied to the retailer stocking a particular package or buying a minimum number of units.

For the retailer, the primary concern is maximizing their advertising dollars. They build their ads around the brands that are giving them the most money/credit for advertising the product.

This is a gross oversimplification, but the main thing to understand is that there are way too many other factors to presume that the appearance or non-appearance of a specific brand in one specific ad means anything significant.

He he, thanks for the lecture That was exactly my point. The others have something they want to spend promotion dollars on, Canon apparently hasn´t.

 

[Don Haines]

To me, it seems very probable that the 7D2 will be a mirrorless crop camera that will introduce a new mount, the EFM mount, a full frame sized mirrorless mount that will be able to use all the existing EF and EF-S lenses with an adaptor.

Also, there's already an EF-M mount - on the EOS M.

When the time comes that Canon goes mirrorless on higher end bodies, they will need a mount that they can put a FF sensor behind.... I thought that the image circle on the EOS-M was not big enough for a FF sensor

Equally probable that pigs will fly

As to a mirrorless 7D2, the only thing really missing is a good EVF... Canon is going to have to come out with a decent mirrorless camera soon, why not the 7D2? Fuji XE-2... Sony A-7... Panasonic GM-1.... Olympus OM-D EM-1... all proof that it can be done.....

How else would Canon differentiate a 7D2 from a 70D in a "revolutionary" manner?

 

[Halfrack]

I was very close to buy a Phase One, but a +40MP body, with improved DR and Zeiss Otus lenses would cover that need, at a much lower cost (even though this forum has gone bananas over the Otus 55/1.4 price). And with such a body I would get full use of the 17 and 24 TS-E lenses ...

then buy a phase one .. i have one and i love it.
what keeps you from buying what you need?

???

Get an Alpa FPS and a Phase One back and use your Canon 17mm and 24mm TS lenses - the output is amazing. The trade off is huge, but what it can do is amazing. Yes, it's more money, but you're going to a chip 2x the size, CCD instead of CMOS, and the ability to do up to 80mp images.

 

[Don Haines]

I'm a photo guy, not a video guy. But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

Yeah. Not gonna happen. Two different mediums. Very different purposes. One is about the narrative. The other is about the moment.

Clearly, you guys haven't seen the photos and newspapers in the Harry Potter movies...

You don't need Harry Potter newspapers... Look at online news.... note the number of stories that include video clips.... The articles are a combination of text, static images, and video. Each has it's place and serves a different purpose. Like it or not, video is here to stay.

 

[Ruined]

To me, it seems very probable that the 7D2 will be a mirrorless crop camera that will introduce a new mount, the EFM mount, a full frame sized mirrorless mount that will be able to use all the existing EF and EF-S lenses with an adaptor.

Also, there's already an EF-M mount - on the EOS M.

When the time comes that Canon goes mirrorless on higher end bodies, they will need a mount that they can put a FF sensor behind.... I thought that the image circle on the EOS-M was not big enough for a FF sensor

Equally probable that pigs will fly

As to a mirrorless 7D2, the only thing really missing is a good EVF... Canon is going to have to come out with a decent mirrorless camera soon, why not the 7D2? Fuji XE-2... Sony A-7... Panasonic GM-1.... Olympus OM-D EM-1... all proof that it can be done.....

How else would Canon differentiate a 7D2 from a 70D in a "revolutionary" manner?

7D2 IMO will be focused on taking great videos and will have a more sturdy body. The 70D has no headphone jack, which makes it pretty much dead in the water for serious video making.

Instead of making 7D2 mirrorless, which I feel is a mistake due to the disadvantages of mirrorless cameras, I would love to see a hybrid model. Same size as a DSLR, but having some of the perks of an EVF as an OPTIONAL mode. This can be done by having the standard DSLR mirror for normal usage but also a mode where the mirror flips up (similar to live view) and a mini projector embedded in the viewfinder path activates (of course would have to be done meticulously to avoid light leakage). This would allow some of the advantages/options of EVF while also offering advantages of DSLR. Only disadvantage would be no size reduction, but if you are buying a 7D2 I doubt that would be a massive priority.

 

[unfocused]

I'm a photo guy, not a video guy. But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

Yeah. Not gonna happen. Two different mediums. Very different purposes. One is about the narrative. The other is about the moment.

Clearly, you guys haven't seen the photos and newspapers in the Harry Potter movies...

You don't need Harry Potter newspapers... Look at online news.... note the number of stories that include video clips.... The articles are a combination of text, static images, and video. Each has it's place and serves a different purpose. Like it or not, video is here to stay.

I think we have to agree to agree.

Seriously, I'd certainly agree that video is already ubiquitous and will only become more so (is that even possible). I'm also all too aware of the shrinking market for stills photography, especially in journalism (That's one reason why I left photojournalism. It was dying even back in the 70s).

I'm not one of those anti-video guys who thinks Canon should rebate him $1.50 on a 5DIII because he never uses the video.

It's just more of an observation: Video and still pictures are two different mediums. Purely as a means of expression, neither one can do what the other one does.

Now, is there a viable market for what stills do so well? That I'm not so sure about. And, I'm a little saddened by that.

 

[Lichtgestalt]

On the other hand, I just came in from shooting some autumn images, shot with the 5DIII and the 16-35 f2.8L II, which I rarely use, and results weren´t that bad. So, have a good Friday night everyone, I´m off to shoot some more, with my old fashioned and crappy Canon bodies

i doubt canon is to blame for the piece of sky and blue colors of the surrounding leaves.
that´s sure an editing mistake?

honestly with that quality your 16-35mm really sucks, i have to agree.
but more MP will not solve that problem.

ps: exif says 1D X.

 

[Loswr]

To me, it seems very probable that the 7D2 will be a mirrorless crop camera that will introduce a new mount, the EFM mount, a full frame sized mirrorless mount that will be able to use all the existing EF and EF-S lenses with an adaptor.

Also, there's already an EF-M mount - on the EOS M.

When the time comes that Canon goes mirrorless on higher end bodies, they will need a mount that they can put a FF sensor behind.... I thought that the image circle on the EOS-M was not big enough for a FF sensor

Yes, the EF-M image circle is sized for APS-C. Yes, if Canon releases a FF mirrorless, they'll need a new mount for that. My point was that you named the new mount 'the EFM mount' and that name is already taken.

As to a mirrorless 7D2, the only thing really missing is a good EVF... Canon is going to have to come out with a decent mirrorless camera soon, why not the 7D2? Fuji XE-2... Sony A-7... Panasonic GM-1.... Olympus OM-D EM-1... all proof that it can be done.....

How else would Canon differentiate a 7D2 from a 70D in a "revolutionary" manner?

The 7D Mark II will be an updated 7D. It won't be APS-H, it won't be mirrorless - either of those would be new camera lines with different designations.

Will the 7DII be 'revolutionary'? What Maeda sais was, "We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory." Evolution ≠ revolutionary. Also, that interview predates the 70D, and one could argue that at least part of the 7D's 'new territory' will be a dual-pixel AF sensor.

You don't need Harry Potter newspapers... Look at online news.... note the number of stories that include video clips.... The articles are a combination of text, static images, and video. Each has it's place and serves a different purpose. Like it or not, video is here to stay.

Of course video is here to stay. My point is, are still photos here to stay? Well, yes, they probably are...but you don't need a still camera to take still photos. Remember Canon's concept camera - it shot video and the intent was to excerpt still frames as needed.

 

[Eldar]

On the other hand, I just came in from shooting some autumn images, shot with the 5DIII and the 16-35 f2.8L II, which I rarely use, and results weren´t that bad. So, have a good Friday night everyone, I´m off to shoot some more, with my old fashioned and crappy Canon bodies

i doubt canon is to blame for the piece of sky and blue colors of the surrounding leaves.
that´s sure an editing mistake?

honestly with that quality your 16-35mm really sucks, i have to agree.
but more MP will not solve that problem.

he he, Thanks for spotting that. I was curious to see if anyone would care to check and make a comment about that and the inability to hold it steady at 1/15s

 

[Ruined]

The 7D Mark II will be an updated 7D. It won't be APS-H, it won't be mirrorless - either of those would be new camera lines with different designations.

Will the 7DII be 'revolutionary'? What Maeda sais was, "We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory." Evolution ≠ revolutionary. Also, that interview predates the 70D, and one could argue that at least part of the 7D's 'new territory' will be a dual-pixel AF sensor.

Because of Maeda's statements, recent DPAF, STM lenses, etc - it only makes sense to me that the 7D2 will be like a better built 70D with more features. I believe it will be weather sealed yet also with flipout screen for video, as well as headphone jack and other features missing in 70D. The new territory the 7D will have evolved into then, is video. Makes sense as nearly every piece of gear released this year was video-related - DPAF/70D, STM lenses, and wideangle USM lenses with IS. All would point to a 7D2 that is awesome at video - in addition to birding, sports, etc.

 

[Lichtgestalt]

On the other hand, I just came in from shooting some autumn images, shot with the 5DIII and the 16-35 f2.8L II, which I rarely use, and results weren´t that bad. So, have a good Friday night everyone, I´m off to shoot some more, with my old fashioned and crappy Canon bodies

i doubt canon is to blame for the piece of sky and blue colors of the surrounding leaves.
that´s sure an editing mistake?

honestly with that quality your 16-35mm really sucks, i have to agree.
but more MP will not solve that problem.

he he, Thanks for spotting that. I was curious to see if anyone would care to check and make a comment about that and the inability to hold it steady at 1/15s

exif say 1/30s and 1DX by the way.

see a 36 MP body would have helped you nothing in this case.
i dare to say it would have looked worse.

to really see the difference of 14 or 18 MP more you need a flawless technique.
means carrying a tripod too.

no offense but the image looks, from the quality, like a P&S not like a 1D X.
the borders are really awfull.

im happy with 22MP on the current 5D MK3.
what i really want is a mindblowing 12-24mm that doesnt cripple the sensor performance.

 

[ashmadux]

I can understand the M hate.

That said, I LOVE mine. Its a great purchase, primarily for its 22/f2 that has no full frame equivalent. No adapter (thought about it). A 55-250 on this thing would kill. On several occasions i carry it alongside a g12, fitting perfectly with space to spare inside a lowepro dslr shoulder bag.

Sensor wise- its a strange beast. Great color range, but lacking in pixel level sharpness compared to my t2i. Almost 7d-like noise levels at anything after iso 100. Night shots are fantastic (well, so is on my g12). Ive been shooting long exposure iso 100 shots at night this past week, and the results are just awesome.

On the cons side

• Ive had a beeyach of a time creating baseline LR recipes for several shot types. The files colors and DR are just very weird to me, especially for daytime shots.
• No IS on the prime means a LOT of oof shots. That's a damn shame
• Action? Forgedduboutit.
• Screen is easily scratched- weird- not one of my regular dslrs ever managed to get a scratched screen. Must be a cheaper coating.
• Handling is goofy. Feels fragile. Hard to not put fingers on the lens front/filter.
• Needs another knob or two.

Eventually i will get the adapter, but for now the 22mm is gold, imho.


My 2c

 

[Etienne]

I can understand the M hate.

That said, I LOVE mine. Its a great purchase, primarily for its 22/f2 that has no full frame equivalent.

Yes there is a FF equivalent ... the 35 f/2 IS ... on a 5DIII it is far superior to the EOS-M 22 f/2 combo (I have both). Not only does the 35 f/2 have IS, it generates a much shallower DOF on FF, and the 5DIII has similar IQ at ISO 6400 that the EOS-M has at ISO 800.

 

[ashmadux]

I can understand the M hate.

That said, I LOVE mine. Its a great purchase, primarily for its 22/f2 that has no full frame equivalent.

Yes there is a FF equivalent ... the 35 f/2 IS ... on a 5DIII it is far superior to the EOS-M 22 f/2 combo (I have both). Not only does the 35 f/2 have IS, it generates a much shallower DOF on FF, and the 5DIII has similar IQ at ISO 6400 that the EOS-M has at ISO 800.

I misspoke- no aspc equivalent - the 35 wouldnt be wide enough, but that IS would save the day. I didnt mention that i recent rented the 24 1.4 to emulate what i can achieve with the m. Pot even close, due to horrible misfocusing of that lens. Reminded me of the craptastic 50 1.4

 

[Don Haines]

How else would Canon differentiate a 7D2 from a 70D in a "revolutionary" manner?

The 7D Mark II will be an updated 7D. It won't be APS-H, it won't be mirrorless - either of those would be new camera lines with different designations.

Will the 7DII be 'revolutionary'? What Maeda sais was, "We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory." Evolution ≠ revolutionary. Also, that interview predates the 70D, and one could argue that at least part of the 7D's 'new territory' will be a dual-pixel AF sensor.

My mistake... call it faulty memory... I thought he said revolutionary...

If it is evolutionary and not revolutionary, an improved and sealed 70D is a better bet... but I do hope that Canon gets to the point where we can leave mechanical shutters and mirrors behind.