Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
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neuroanatomist said:AvTvM said:
So, Canon wants more money for less features, and they are GREEDY. Whereas you want more features for less money, and that makes you...?? :
Buried within AvTvM's trollish language I think his point is that each major brand has a near monopoly, so the basic features of free-market competition don't hold. There's a small amount of truth to that: even the availability of third-party alternatives doesn't seem to have a significant impact on Canon's design and pricing choices, only the products of the other major brand seem to do so. I disagree with him, however, because for amateurs it's all optional -- I don't have to spend a penny on photo gear to live my life. And for full-time, established pros the cost is justifiable for the added (perception of) reliability.
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Let me be more precise: i dont' consider canon to be greedier than other corporations. I perceive them to be more shortsighted with greed. All they only offer is what is absolutely required to not loose out to competitor's products immediately. Sometimes they undershoot that threshold. E.g. Eos-m.
And even when canon comes up with a new feature like switching from line-of-sight-triggering to radio-wireless that is hugely useful to many customers and leapfrogs the entire competion, they are held back by shortsighted greed. Only offering rt in one expensive top of the line speedlite and one commander that lacks in other features. And they design the system to deliver the goods in combination with the latest cameras only. Rather than really pushing the feature unto rheir huge installed base (of pre 2012 eos models and 580/430 speedlites) by offering a 450ex-rt and a cheap little transceiver for existing canon speedlites. Of course canon gets punished for this behaviour by amateurs like me who do not need to have the rt system to earn money.
So many amateurs like myself have held off totally from paying canon 1.5k for 3 600ex-rt and an st-e3. Any day now i will be able to pick up a yongnuo ste of rt-commander plus rt-flashes and transceivers offering more functionality for about 1/4 of the money. And it will work nicely even with our pre-2012 cameras - even across makes.
Now who is the winner here? Certainly not canon, who have invited 3rd party competitors in and have not leveraged their technological improvement to really create a full-sized USP against their direct competition. Nikon or sony have gained valuable time. Canon has no killer instinct. They may lead in sales at the moment, but they dont lead the market. They don't ever try to exceed their customers expectations the way nikon or sony do ... On occasion. Canon really is a follower company. They will not win the game long-term with the attitude they have been showing over the last 5 years. They are trying to nickel and dime their customers exactly in the same way gm and ford have tries to. Withholding even small and cheap pieces of technical progress like give me a break - wifi connectivity in a digital camera. The strategy will not work for much longer.
Due to canons decisions i have also held off buying a 5d 3. and the 24-70 ii that i would take to go with it. I am continueing with my 7 d for the time being, and will sell the 10k canon glass selection (ef, l, ef-s) as soon as i get a 5d 4 type camera as a solid state milc. By whomever.
And no, its not just me. Its many other "enthusiast/amateurs" too.
And even when canon comes up with a new feature like switching from line-of-sight-triggering to radio-wireless that is hugely useful to many customers and leapfrogs the entire competion, they are held back by shortsighted greed. Only offering rt in one expensive top of the line speedlite and one commander that lacks in other features. And they design the system to deliver the goods in combination with the latest cameras only. Rather than really pushing the feature unto rheir huge installed base (of pre 2012 eos models and 580/430 speedlites) by offering a 450ex-rt and a cheap little transceiver for existing canon speedlites. Of course canon gets punished for this behaviour by amateurs like me who do not need to have the rt system to earn money.
So many amateurs like myself have held off totally from paying canon 1.5k for 3 600ex-rt and an st-e3. Any day now i will be able to pick up a yongnuo ste of rt-commander plus rt-flashes and transceivers offering more functionality for about 1/4 of the money. And it will work nicely even with our pre-2012 cameras - even across makes.
Now who is the winner here? Certainly not canon, who have invited 3rd party competitors in and have not leveraged their technological improvement to really create a full-sized USP against their direct competition. Nikon or sony have gained valuable time. Canon has no killer instinct. They may lead in sales at the moment, but they dont lead the market. They don't ever try to exceed their customers expectations the way nikon or sony do ... On occasion. Canon really is a follower company. They will not win the game long-term with the attitude they have been showing over the last 5 years. They are trying to nickel and dime their customers exactly in the same way gm and ford have tries to. Withholding even small and cheap pieces of technical progress like give me a break - wifi connectivity in a digital camera. The strategy will not work for much longer.
Due to canons decisions i have also held off buying a 5d 3. and the 24-70 ii that i would take to go with it. I am continueing with my 7 d for the time being, and will sell the 10k canon glass selection (ef, l, ef-s) as soon as i get a 5d 4 type camera as a solid state milc. By whomever.
And no, its not just me. Its many other "enthusiast/amateurs" too.
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You need to check your prices dude,
ST-E3-RT - $286
YN-E3-RT - $148
The YN costs 52% not 25%.
600-EX-RT - $469
Do you really believe Yongnuo are going to come out with the YN-600-RT at $117?
Canon is not over charging for the 600 going by market forces, the Nikon equivalent, the SB910, that does not have radio, is $547, add well over $100 per flash to get you into the PW Flex system that still doesn't have the functionality of the Canon RT system, and Canon have a good argument for raising the price! If you are not in the pro equipment market then stop bitching about the prices.
ST-E3-RT - $286
YN-E3-RT - $148
The YN costs 52% not 25%.
600-EX-RT - $469
Do you really believe Yongnuo are going to come out with the YN-600-RT at $117?
Canon is not over charging for the 600 going by market forces, the Nikon equivalent, the SB910, that does not have radio, is $547, add well over $100 per flash to get you into the PW Flex system that still doesn't have the functionality of the Canon RT system, and Canon have a good argument for raising the price! If you are not in the pro equipment market then stop bitching about the prices.
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AvTvM said:
I think you're being very selective about your evidence. Sony has been so shortsighted that they're possibly a year or two from bankruptcy. Nikon has been so shortsighted that they've neglected to maintain their lens line-up, and have had serious QA problems that resulted in major loss of market share. I've read posts from a number of people who would like to have a D800, but don't want to be required to deal with 36MP files always. Nikon could have made sraw and mraw modes to make it more convenient for less demanding needs, while having full res available for high-end/high-value work.
I'm sure Canon has marketing people using spreadsheets who decide where to get the best profit. Apparently, they're willing to let go of purchases by people like you to make more profit from others. So far it has not hurt them. It doesn't hurt Canon much at all if you don't buy their flashes, so long as lots of other people do.
If they feel the market pressure, maybe they'll change strategies.
Sorry, but this is laughable when considering the financial challenges that both Sony and Nikon have.
Better for us: if Canon were to dominate the marketplace, they would then be free to manipulate their product lines still more. The best thing for customers is to have multiple vendors will full, strong product lines.
Again, Sony and Nikon have financial problems. (Sony much more so)
As Keynes famously said, "in the long run we are all dead." The long term never matters, what matters in this particular market is probably 2-4 years. Canon is probably in the best financial position at this point.
And it seems to be working.
How many? A few hundred, or even a few thousand probably don't matter.And no, its not just me. Its many other "enthusiast/amateurs" too.
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Loswr
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AvTvM said:
Yes, the SB910 and D610 show how well Nikon exceeded their customers' expectations of how fast replacement models should be released to fix design flaws in their predecessors.
AvTvM said:
Check back in 5 more years when Canon will have been the dSLR market leader for >15 years. You can bitch about the lack of WiFi in a pro/semipro camera, fine. It's in the newer 6D, it's in the M2, and I'm almost certain it'll be in the T6i. The xxxD line is the bread-and-butter of Canon's market share. Articulating screen, touch screen, etc., the 'consumer gimmicks' show up there sooner or later.
AvTvM said:And no, its not just me. Its many other "enthusiast/amateurs" too.
Yes, but that 'many' is still a small minority, an insignificant not-quite-even-a-blip in Canon's bottom line.
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AvTvM said:
Are you actually "calling Canon out", or are you really just trolling? Because you have absolutely zero factual evidence that Canon "greed" is dictating anything as far as that company is concerned. Canon, for longer than I've been alive I figure, has been a very conservative company. Being conservative and being baselessly greedy are two very different things. The former is a means of preserving a company and it's brands in the face of diverse competition and economic hardship (and Canon as a company has been through both on many occasions, not the least of which it is facing both simultaneously now.)
If history tells us anything, it's that nothing guarantees the "first" to have something is always the best. Canon is not the first to have mirrorless cameras...but that does not mean when they finally do start pushing mirrorless consistently, that the offerings won't be superior to the competitions. Canon was not the first to improve low ISO DR...however that does not mean that when they finally do improve low ISO DR, that it won't be superior to the competitions. Canon's conservative attitude, which certainly appears to have been exaggerated in recent years, what between economic issues, competitive issues, and even natural disasters (in other words, their heightened conservative business approach is more justified!), has always served them well in that it makes them stop and evaluate new options and technology before they charge headlong into it, potentially burning resources on products that may or may not actually capture the majority of the potential customers in a market.
Sony is a reckless company. In many ways, Nikon is also a reckless company. They rush products to market, damn the market or demographic statistics, they rush a whole bunch of products to market, and hope some of them stick. That is an exceptionally wasteful approach. It's an approach that has bitten Sony in the ass a few times, not the least of which was very recently with their bond status being reduced to junk. Nikon spitfires products into existence that were seemingly pulled from someone's butt, like the Df...brilliant concept fundamentally, radically botched implementation. The interesting thing about both Sony and Nikon is they have a knack for creating niche products that rapidly gain intense cult followings by minor groups who are particularly vocal about how and why they love that one particular product. There are some few who love the Df, despite the fact that it is a kludgey amalgamation of modern technology and a piss-poor attempt at emulating vintage camera technology in an attempt to woo the nostalgic side of aging generations who loved "<insertancientnikoncameramodelhere>".
Cult followings, however, won't pay the bills in the long run. You can call it greed if you insist, but having a BUSINESS eye on the bottom line is what keeps a company healthy, and keeps them around for the long term. Would you rather buy some fancy shmancy high end super-modern camera with radically cutting edge technology that may have zero support and no long-term lens production plan because the company runs a high risk of going bankrupt? Or would you rather buy a really good, but not technologically bleeding edge camera that is sure to have continued lens manufacture and customer service for years, if not decades?
Canon is not "greedy". They are business savvy. There is a difference, and it is a meaningful difference. The raging hate that successful companies get these days from the uneducated underclass simultaneously baffles me and infuriates me. Successful companies are what fuel successful economies. They provides jobs, salaries, and fund the prospect of more jobs with future growth. They are the engine of prosperity. The fact that a vanishingly small percentage of large corporations over the decades have "gone bad", like Enron (an example of a very rare breed of company, not an example of every company), does not mean all companies are "bad" and "evil" and "greedy". The simple fact of the matter is the vast majority if companies in existence are in business to make money, because that's what fuels business.
Money PAYS SALARIES! Money FUELS GROWTH! Money FUNDS RESEARCH! Money BUILDS PRODUCTS!
OF COURSE CANON WANTS TO MAKE MONEY!!
If Canon didn't want to make money, there wouldn't be a Canon...and neither would there be Canon L-series glass, or the 5D III and 1D X, or Canon PIXMA printers, or any of the other wonderful products Canon has produced over the years, not just for photography, but for many other industries such as medical (where many of their products literally save lives.)
Enough with the Canon is greedy crap. It is so exceptionally naive. Not to mention pure hearsay and imaginative concoction. Canon is a business. Just like all their competitors! They employ tens of thousands of people. They fund one of the worlds largest sources of innovation. They design and build some of the best photographic and printing products in the world.
Ohh...but they don't have DR...they must be GREEEEEDDYYYYYYY!! Dear god.... shoot me now.
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AvTvM said:
Who is Canon exactly?
The people working there? The people in charge? The shareholders?
The people in charge will probably also have shares or options, so let’s assume the shareholders are the greedy ones.
If you are a Canon shareholder, you’d lost about half your money in the last 7 years. For greedy people that should be enough to commit seppuku (a.k.a. hara-kiri).
It helps if you look at the facts first before you draw conclusions.
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With Canon I mean the corporation, run by its executives.
Just to stick with the example of radio wireless ETTL speedlite triggering for one more moment:
Canon could technically crack the Pocketwizard stronghold and some technical challenges to inmplement the RT system. Against what many naysayers her said before, Canon could do it on the 2.4 GHz band [fast enough for 2 way communication flash-triggering] and they can market it globally with only 2 product variants in all important and civilized markets on earth, despite differing radio communications regulations and standards. Yes, there are some markets with such absurd regulations, that the only get 600-EX without RT. I am sure fanbois there will be also to happy to buy those. ;D
I am convinced, Nikon and Sony were not ABLE to get wireless ETTL speedlite triggering implemented. If they had been able to, they would have done so by now. I am quite certain, that they are working on the issue and will eventually bring it to market. Canon is squandering precious lead-time to get their system universally established. Becaue their short-sighted greed only lets them think of "potentially lost 600EX-RT sales" for any 100 successful 450EX-Rt sales and for any 1000 successfull RT-transceiver sales that would expand the RT-ecosystem to all existing and still "semi-current" 580/430 speedlites. And possibly even allow their customers to radio-trigger monolights mixed with (ETTL-) speedlites ... all from one and the same RT-master.
To me that is shortsighted with greed.
Just to stick with the example of radio wireless ETTL speedlite triggering for one more moment:
Canon could technically crack the Pocketwizard stronghold and some technical challenges to inmplement the RT system. Against what many naysayers her said before, Canon could do it on the 2.4 GHz band [fast enough for 2 way communication flash-triggering] and they can market it globally with only 2 product variants in all important and civilized markets on earth, despite differing radio communications regulations and standards. Yes, there are some markets with such absurd regulations, that the only get 600-EX without RT. I am sure fanbois there will be also to happy to buy those. ;D
I am convinced, Nikon and Sony were not ABLE to get wireless ETTL speedlite triggering implemented. If they had been able to, they would have done so by now. I am quite certain, that they are working on the issue and will eventually bring it to market. Canon is squandering precious lead-time to get their system universally established. Becaue their short-sighted greed only lets them think of "potentially lost 600EX-RT sales" for any 100 successful 450EX-Rt sales and for any 1000 successfull RT-transceiver sales that would expand the RT-ecosystem to all existing and still "semi-current" 580/430 speedlites. And possibly even allow their customers to radio-trigger monolights mixed with (ETTL-) speedlites ... all from one and the same RT-master.
To me that is shortsighted with greed.
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AvTvM said:
And that is why you are a forum nobody and not a high level executive in a global corporation.
I would hazard a guess that the 600-EX-RT has far outsold any previous top level flash since the 550EX because it introduced a truly new and innovative feature. I am in the process of selling my last 550EX's, I never saw any practical advantage to the 580EX/II, and have replaced them all with 600's. I don't care about 460-EX-RT's, I don't care about monolights (though I know some do), I suspect Canon are more interested in my speedlite opinion than yours because I am a purchaser, you are not. I don't care if they don't do anything else with the RT system for another ten years, the 550's lasted me that, I bought it for what it can do, not refuse to to buy it because of what I think it could do.
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privatebydesign said:
that's all fine and dandy. It would have still been in Canon's better interest to push the RT system out as vehemently and quickly as possibly. You could still have purchased any number 600EX-RTs at any given price. No damage done. And in addition other pros and amatuers would have purchased millions of 450EX-RTs and RT-tranceivers Millions of them. And the Canon RT wireless ETTTl-System would be ubiquitzuos throughout the Canon-ecosystem by now. More "tie-in" of existing customers (in addition to invstments in glass) and mor lure for potential new customers. Much larger and longer-lasting comparative advantage against competitors without radio-wireless ETTL-system. Win-Win-Win.
Under almost any market condition, if a company sells 2 or 3 "similar" products they will sell more in TOTAL compared to selling 1 product only. Even Canon does not only sell 1D-X. And 4 versions of white 70-200 lenses. Same applies to speedlites.
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Loswr
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AvTvM said:
Sure, but last time I checked, Canon was selling five Speedlites in their lineup (not counting the macro flashes) - 90EX, 270EX II, 320EX, 430EX II, and 600EX-RT. Plenty of choices for amateurs.
Canon sells far more Rebel/xxxD cameras than the higher end models, and more xxD models than xD models. The vast majority of dSLR buyers are getting a camera that already has a flash, and see no need to buy another one. Of those that do see a need to buy a Speedlite flash, only a very tiny minority will do anything other than use it in the camera's hotshoe. If you're going to use the flash in the hotshoe, the RT system is useless to you.
OTOH, if you're going to get the flash off the camera, you're probably using modifiers too, and need more power from your flash. Therefore, the 600 will be a better choice.
I'm sure Canon will add RT capability to the lower flashes, eventually…but as part of an overall refresh. Canon knows their market quite well, which is a big part of the reason they've sold more dSLRs than anyone else for over 10 years.
privatebydesign said:
That pretty much hits the nail on the head.
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neuroanatomist said:
Yes, main reason why I am willing to purchase radio wireless is use with light modifiers, which is cumbersome and limiting with line-of-sight triggering. Canon has been selling only one speedlite for close to 1,5 years now, that has wireless RT-triggering. In terms of power ... my 580EX II and my 430EX IIs have delivered enough output for what I've been doing up to now, so I don't really need a setup of all 600EX-RTs.
But who knows, when the Yongnuo YN-600RT becomes available (a matter of weeks now, hopefully 8) and is tested as "good enough" by early adopters, I may just pick up three of those, unless they also announce dirt-cheap RT-transceivers ;D - which would of course be my preferred option, since it would not require having to sell perfectly fine existing Canon speedlites.
The Yongnuo solution also gives me AF-assist light on the controller (which would have been very handy in at least a few of my shootings) and much more importantly: it gives me group-mode even on my pre-2012 Canon camera model (7D).
So no more money to be made by Canon on me regarding speedlites. And quite some people I know will be doing exactly the same thing. Again, I really consider this state of affairs a shame for Canon and it is definitely not in their own best (commercial) interest.
----
btw: may I kindly ask everybody here to refrain from *personal attacks* on me and wild guesses at what I do or don't do outside of this forum? Even when I hold different opinions than you do? Thanks! 8)
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AvTvM said:privatebydesign said:
that's all fine and dandy. It would have still been in Canon's better interest to push the RT system out as vehemently and quickly as possibly. You could still have purchased any number 600EX-RTs at any given price. No damage done. And in addition other pros and amatuers would have purchased millions of 450EX-RTs and RT-tranceivers Millions of them. And the Canon RT wireless ETTTl-System would be ubiquitzuos throughout the Canon-ecosystem by now. More "tie-in" of existing customers (in addition to invstments in glass) and mor lure for potential new customers. Much larger and longer-lasting comparative advantage against competitors without radio-wireless ETTL-system. Win-Win-Win.
Under almost any market condition, if a company sells 2 or 3 "similar" products they will sell more in TOTAL compared to selling 1 product only. Even Canon does not only sell 1D-X. And 4 versions of white 70-200 lenses. Same applies to speedlites.
That is farcically ridiculous and failed logic.
If I had been given the option of getting a $50 Canon made RT compatible trigger to work with my 550EX's instead of getting $450 600-EX-RT's I'd have done that, I wouldn't have got as integrated a system as I have, and Canon would have made $200 off me rather than $2,000. This way we are both happy. I am no Canon whore either, I have been running the 550's via Yongnuo RF 602's for years.
I paid $220 for most of my 550EX's new, I am getting around $150 for them now nearly ten years later secondhand, I wrote them down to nothing by 2008, they own me nothing yet they have given me ten years faultless service for $70. I expect similar figures from the 600's.
The choices in flashes have never been greater, you can buy whatever you want or feel is fair. Go Phottix Odin, Mitros+, Yongnuo 622C, 580EXII + PW Flex etc etc, each has it's stand alone features. The Canon RT system is one of only a few systems that offer built in ETTL radio, it is the only speedlite system to give five groups.
Choose by features or price, I don't care, I did and my money, after much consideration, went on the Canon RT system and so far I am very pleased it did. But don't try and tell me Canon is making some huge mistake by not pampering to your childish outbursts for $10 triggers to make their headline radio flash system work on your $80 clone flashes.
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Loswr
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AvTvM said:
Nice, invoke the 'lots of people feel the same way that I do,' argument. Unless you personally know a few million people who told you that they wouldn't be buying any more Canon Speedlites, Canon couldn't care less.
AvTvM said:
Yes, it's a shame they're the market leader, and have been for >10 years. Clearly, you know far more than Canon about what sort of strategy would be best for them. Why don't you call them up and tell them - the number for their headquarters is (81)3-3758-2111. Please do let us know when they've acknowledged your superior wisdom regarding their corporate strategy and named you their new CEO.
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I visit this thread every now and then, just to be entertained 
But it´s been a while since the D4s was announced and I have not seen an official Nikon specifications yet. Have any of you?
What I found on Nikon rumors was:
- the same 16MP sensor
- higher fps rate
- improved AF
- better low light performance
- improved video
- XQD and CF memory cards
Ken Rockwell (don´t mention his name) said a couple of weeks back: "The Nikon D4s is simply a mid-model refresh of the Nikon D4 of 2012. The D4S is a minor update, as Nikon has been doing since at least the 1980s when the N8008 became the N8008s. The D4S is even less significant than other S models because Nikon isn't even selling it yet as of January 2014; Nikon is still "developing" it."
And there are a few more like that, where one refers to the other.
Doesn´t sound like the killer of anything to me ...
But it´s been a while since the D4s was announced and I have not seen an official Nikon specifications yet. Have any of you?
What I found on Nikon rumors was:
- the same 16MP sensor
- higher fps rate
- improved AF
- better low light performance
- improved video
- XQD and CF memory cards
Ken Rockwell (don´t mention his name) said a couple of weeks back: "The Nikon D4s is simply a mid-model refresh of the Nikon D4 of 2012. The D4S is a minor update, as Nikon has been doing since at least the 1980s when the N8008 became the N8008s. The D4S is even less significant than other S models because Nikon isn't even selling it yet as of January 2014; Nikon is still "developing" it."
And there are a few more like that, where one refers to the other.
Doesn´t sound like the killer of anything to me ...
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Okay, we've been round this bend before. Still, I can't help myself.
I think AvTvM has a point about the 600RT eco-system. No secret, I have complained that Canon did a disservice to its customers by refusing to release a simple receiver or transceiver that would allow customers to use the 580EX II with a radio receiver.
On the surface, it appears to be a cheap and readily available technology that Canon could easily have sold to 580EX II users at some grossly inflated price and many of us would have happily snapped them up.
As it stands, instead, buyers who want to use the radio trigger system either have to go the third-party route or sell off existing strobes and buy 600 RTs.
Some say that's understandable, because it allows Canon to sell new strobes. But, generally good business practice does not include screwing over your best customers. I strongly suspect that 600 RT sales have been eroded by persons turning to third party solutions such as the fantastic Yongnuo 622-C.
Plus, without knowing what Canon's costs are, we can't know which would have generated more profit – sales of 600RTs or sales of a transceiver/receiver. It's entirely possible that a larger profit margin might be available with a receiver than with a complete strobe.
Additionally, we will never know how many more 600 RTs Canon could have sold if they had offered a receiver for 580EXIIs.
I have invested in the 600 RT system and I love it. I was able to sell my 580 EXIIs for a decent amount, so I didn't take too big of a hit and I've been able to score several refurbished and new-on-sale strobes, so no big complaints, except this:
It left a bad taste in my mouth and made me wonder what the next top-of-the line product will be that Canon will unveil without making even the simplest provisions for making the previous top-of-the-line product compatible. I'll continue to invest in the RT system, but there will always be that nagging concern that as far as speedlites are concerned, Canon is likely to put short-term sales ahead of building long-term customer loyalty.
Now, I would be the first to admit that I know little to nothing about technology, so there may be solid, technical reasons that Canon could not release a receiver or transceiver compatible with the 580EXII, but I sincerely doubt it. The test will come as we watch Yongnuo over the coming months. If they produce a transceiver or receiver, we will have the answer.
I seldom agree with AvTvM on issues, but on this one, he/she has a point.
I think AvTvM has a point about the 600RT eco-system. No secret, I have complained that Canon did a disservice to its customers by refusing to release a simple receiver or transceiver that would allow customers to use the 580EX II with a radio receiver.
On the surface, it appears to be a cheap and readily available technology that Canon could easily have sold to 580EX II users at some grossly inflated price and many of us would have happily snapped them up.
As it stands, instead, buyers who want to use the radio trigger system either have to go the third-party route or sell off existing strobes and buy 600 RTs.
Some say that's understandable, because it allows Canon to sell new strobes. But, generally good business practice does not include screwing over your best customers. I strongly suspect that 600 RT sales have been eroded by persons turning to third party solutions such as the fantastic Yongnuo 622-C.
Plus, without knowing what Canon's costs are, we can't know which would have generated more profit – sales of 600RTs or sales of a transceiver/receiver. It's entirely possible that a larger profit margin might be available with a receiver than with a complete strobe.
Additionally, we will never know how many more 600 RTs Canon could have sold if they had offered a receiver for 580EXIIs.
I have invested in the 600 RT system and I love it. I was able to sell my 580 EXIIs for a decent amount, so I didn't take too big of a hit and I've been able to score several refurbished and new-on-sale strobes, so no big complaints, except this:
It left a bad taste in my mouth and made me wonder what the next top-of-the line product will be that Canon will unveil without making even the simplest provisions for making the previous top-of-the-line product compatible. I'll continue to invest in the RT system, but there will always be that nagging concern that as far as speedlites are concerned, Canon is likely to put short-term sales ahead of building long-term customer loyalty.
Now, I would be the first to admit that I know little to nothing about technology, so there may be solid, technical reasons that Canon could not release a receiver or transceiver compatible with the 580EXII, but I sincerely doubt it. The test will come as we watch Yongnuo over the coming months. If they produce a transceiver or receiver, we will have the answer.
I seldom agree with AvTvM on issues, but on this one, he/she has a point.
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unfocused said:
Only if you think that if somebody sells you something (including warranty and service) they owe you more than that thing.
Canon are giving us all a choice, buy into the RT system as it is, or not; buy it for what it currently does, or not. The 600-EX-RT does not render the 580 EXII or any other EX going back to my 550's, obsolete, it integrates with them flawlessly with the complete compatibility of the older optical wireless system. You would only have a point if Canon came out with a 650 EX-WT next year that didn't work with either the optical or current wireless system.
Canon have done that in the past, when they went from the FD system to the EF system, that was cause for genuine anguish, the systems were totally incompatible, but that is not what was done with the RT system, it retains all the functionality and integration with your 580EX/II/550EX/430/II/90/120/220/320/II 430/II but it also has more stuff. if we had been able to use our FD lenses on our new EOS bodies we could have made the switchover easier, we couldn't have thrown our toys out of the pram because Canon didn't make a $50 thing that made our manual focus lenses auto focus lenses, that is a farcical standpoint.
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