Yongnuo 35mm f/2 Canon Clone on the Way

[davidcl0nel]

Well, if this keeps up, we may soon see a Yongnuo 24mm 2.8 and/or 28mm 2.8.

Yeah, maybe.
Maybe Canon really add a new 50 1.8 IS anyway this year, so it would be not easy to place the new one for 400€ against the 80€ cheap one, even with IS. But if they don't build it anymore (as 24, 28, 35) Yongnuo can sell them. It's not uncommon, that even the same company did that, to get the whole market, but of course not with the same name. A Canon enthusiast "have to" pay the full price anyway, others can buy cheaper.
Canon and Nikon have a big market, so the market for additional stuff (and even other vendor lenses like Sigma/Tokina/Tamron) add much quality to the camera line, even if its not "original". That is a big plus against Samsung, Sony and so on - currently.
So maybe even Canon don't have something against it...

 

[futrtrubl]

Instead they choose to directly copy, almost exactly, not only the internal design of the Canon lenses but the outside as well.

Perhaps you haven't actually looked at the 35mm lenses then.

People keep talking about the patents and infringement, but the Canon 35mm f2 was made in 1990 so is now no longer protected even if it had the stronger utility patent. Isn't 24 years long enough to recoup your development costs?
Hell, the Canon 50mm f1.8 was DISCONTINUED in 1990. Yongnuo has taken that and produced something cheaper and better (in all ways, from the reviews I have seen) than Canon's plastic replacement.

Edward

 

[unfocused]

The big question will be pricing. The Yongnuo 50 f1/8 isn't much cheaper than the Canon. Unless there is a significant price differential (as in less expensive than the used market), I wonder how much demand there will be for these lenses.

Now, to really get the internet juices flowing: how about a Yongnuo APS-H camera body with a Canon mount?

 

[mdomask]

Hi, all. I just joined this forum to comment on this, since I work for a company that supports intellectual property research. I'm actually pitching my boss on a white paper that uses YongNuo and these cloned lenses as a case study.

First, determining the status of a patent (active/inactive) is somewhat trickier than it seems. But, based on a few analysis tools on Canon's granted lens patents, it looks like the patents for a lot of old Canon lenses are probably expired at this point. This includes the 50 f/1.8, 50 f/1.4, 35 f/2, the old 20-35... pretty much anything patented in the early 90's or before.

It looks like a lot of these patents just cover the elements, their grouping, and how they bend light. The drawings in the patents are pretty much identical to the block diagrams on Canon's site with additional details about how each element bends light, etc.. Some of the patents cover image stabilization for a particular lens. So, YN can copy this portion of the lens design without running into any IP issues.

None of the patents cover things like external design or autofocus. (There are many separate patents for various autofocus technologies, though, some of which have likely expired.) However, exterior design can be controlled through copyright (in some cases) or trademark (much more likely). For example, I'm pretty sure no one can use the exact color of red ring that Canon uses due to trademark concerns. I wouldn't be surprised if there were trademarks on some of the external designs, too. This is where YN may get into trouble, because their designs pretty clearly mimic the Canon designs and could cause market confusion. (Trademarks have an indefinite length, because it's silly for say Coca Cola to lose use of their name just because a certain length of time passed.)

There's a lot of other expired Canon lens patents out there that companies could use to make lenses. Odds are that YN chose these ones for marketability and because factories are already tooled to make these lenses for Canon, Nikon, etc. But, patent concerns shouldn't be an issue for any of these lenses. From what I can tell, they're all well expired. For example, the US patent for the 50 f/1.4 expired 18 years ago!

 

[Marsu42]

Welcome, that's great information!

This is where YN may get into trouble, because their designs pretty clearly mimic the Canon designs and could cause market confusion. (Trademarks have an indefinite length, because it's silly for say Coca Cola to lose use of their name just because a certain length of time passed.)

Do you expect for Canon to go for that, or will they simply ignore Yn copying their ancient lens' look because suing them will be bad publicity and might not even be a safe bet? After all, Canon's recent kit, "red" L or "golden" lenses look very different from say the 50/1.8.

For example, I'm pretty sure no one can use the exact color of red ring that Canon uses due to trademark concerns.

Oh well, that's modern society for you, the red ring "red" looks rather generic to me. Reminds me of a German telco enterprise suing everyone and their cat for using their kind of pink. Take this, company-I-won't name-here :

 

[AvTvM]

hehe Marsu, full ACK! And btw ... that nasty magenta really sucks! 8)

Looking forward to what Nikon lens Yongnuo will take on first. they already said, they'll "also do" Nikon lenses.

Actuallly I would not mind a Yongnuo AF 135/2.0 NON-L ... for say € 299,- ... the Canon EF 135/2.0 L patent has probably also expired some time ago ...

 

[mdomask]

Welcome, that's great information!

Thanks for the welcome!

This is where YN may get into trouble, because their designs pretty clearly mimic the Canon designs and could cause market confusion. (Trademarks have an indefinite length, because it's silly for say Coca Cola to lose use of their name just because a certain length of time passed.)

Do you expect for Canon to go for that, or will they simply ignore Yn copying their ancient lens' look because suing them will be bad publicity and might not even be a safe bet? After all, Canon's recent kit, "red" L or "golden" lenses look very different from say the 50/1.8.
[/quote]
Who knows? There's probably some team at Canon running the numbers on whether or not it's worth it to pursue Yn. Samsung v Apple dragged out for years in courts on multiple continents. I really don't know if Canon is the kind of company that files suit on principal or files suit only when it's "worth it" on the bottom line.

For example, I'm pretty sure no one can use the exact color of red ring that Canon uses due to trademark concerns.

Oh well, that's modern society for you, the red ring "red" looks rather generic to me. Reminds me of a German telco enterprise suing everyone and their cat for using their kind of pink. Take this, company-I-won't name-here :
[/img]
[/quote]
My company has a few trademarked colors of our own, so no comment

hehe Marsu, full ACK! And btw ... that nasty magenta really sucks! 8)

Looking forward to what Nikon lens Yongnuo will take on first. they already said, they'll "also do" Nikon lenses.

Actuallly I would not mind a Yongnuo AF 135/2.0 NON-L ... for say € 299,- ... the Canon EF 135/2.0 L patent has probably also expired some time ago ...

I think I saw the "medium telephoto wide aperture" patent on my list while doing research... a lot of the patents aren't for specific focal lengths, but rather for elements/groups that can be combined to make lenses with a specific aperture. For example, I saw one patent for an optical system for an f/2.8 lens at several lengths (including 24 and 28)

 

[Marsu42]

Who knows? There's probably some team at Canon running the numbers on whether or not it's worth it to pursue Yn. Samsung v Apple dragged out for years in courts on multiple continents. I really don't know if Canon is the kind of company that files suit on principal or files suit only when it's "worth it" on the bottom line.

I doubt it. Steve Jobs declared nuclear war on Samsung, but if Canon takes on Yn they're admitting that they pose a threat - either strategically or by drawing a lot of sales. Unless I'm missing something, the smart reaction is to ignore it, it's not like Yn is grabbing a core market like with a 5d3 clone.

That's because the natural reaction of customers would be a) interest: What's so great about Yn? Lemme try some! and b) loss of repuration: Goliath tries to stomp poor David, producing cheap lenses for those poor Chinese kids not being able to afford the fancy Japanese high-tech.

 

[miah]

If it doesn't infringe or it merely "infringes" an expired patent,

You can't infringe an expired patent.

Obviously, dilbert, that's why I put "infringes" in quotes.

 

[martti]

I could very well see the Chinese buying Nikon and moving the production lines to China.
They have done this on several other branches of industry already. They just buy the factory, all its machines and the intellectual material that they consider worth it. And two years later they have the production up and running, killing off competition with their subsidized prices.
Yongnuo's two Canon clones are just an indication that they have the know how to run optical companies. Their commercial value as such is not of much relevance.

 

[hgraf]

lol. And you just know it will be built to last.

I would not recommend anybody buy this.

Have you ever used a Yongnuo product? If not, then I don't see why your recommendation would be worth anything.

FWIW, I HAVE some Yongnuo products, and all I can say is that they are VERY well built, and seem to hold up perfectly well for amateur use. The speedlight clones I use have never let me down, and the Yongnuo (damn that's hard for me to spell...) wireless flash remotes haven't caused me any problems either.

Early reports for the 50mm clone show it to me minimally as optically as good as the Canon, and better in many ways. Granted, the plastic fantastic isn't the paramount of build quality, but for amateurs it's more then good enough. Hell, my plastic fantastic has taken a beating and still works perfectly great.

I for one welcome this lens. If it's optically similar to the Canon equivalent it will be an absolute home run. The 50 and 40mm lenses from Canon are too narrow for crop users in many situations, 35mm is much more useful.

Plus, on top of this, I personally believe that the "big guys" need a kick in the bum, they've been releasing lackluster products for years. Sony has been doing a great job lately of showing what can be done on the higher end, and if Yongnuo can get things moving on the cheap glass side I'm all for it.

TTYL

 

[Khufu]

If Yongnuo can wire/chip these things to fit and autofocus with Sony's a7 series' FE mount they'll make a killing selling them "10 for the price of 1!" relative to anything else what-so-ever that's available... and they're a faster lens!