m4ndr4ke said:

It’s most of the R6 Mark II in a RP body, with pretty much all the same settings and customisation available.
The R8 allows ISO on the top dial, two back button focus, etc.

Actually, the R8 has a few extra customisation options, when compared to the original R6, and I’m tempted to keep it specifically for the customisation. I use two back button focus, I like ISO on the top dial (where the RP adjusts aperture and doesn’t allow ISO). The R8 could give me an almost seamless experience. It doesn’t have rear dial but, honestly, it’s not that often that I need to adjust aperture.

It’s funny that you mention the joystick, because i only use it on my R6 to reset the focus point to the center. I drag it with the rear screen and reset with the joystick.
On the RP, I drag the focus point with the rear screen and reset with delete button.

@Canon Rumors Canon USA yesterday scheduled a YouTube stream, but it looks like they’ve deleted it in the meantime.

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I really miss my R8. I love it's size and pocket-ability. It's way more portable that a R6ii. Same AF system and sensor too. The battery life is very dissapointing, however, if it used a bigger battery then it wouldn't be such a small camera. The only spec I find hard is the very low resolution and small EVF. It's fine 90% of the time, but for those 10% moments when I really want to see the detail or check focus...it's not so great.

Del Paso said:

I fully agree on the Sony 28-70 heavily relying on digital corrections. Only Canon products face criticism...
On the other hand, it depends -for Canon, since I don't care at all about Sony - on how heavy these corrections are, compared to purely optical ones. If a lens needs to "light up" corners by 5 EV, or if corners need massive stretching to cover FF, this could render those lenses unsuited for night pictures, due to noise.
Nothing against digital correction, within certain limits. What matters is the resulting picture, as long as it does not suffer excessively from corner noise, I'm ok with digital.
And yes, lighter is always better...

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From what I'm seeing on the digital picture, the Canon has more vignetting while the Sony has more geometric distortion. So the noise in corners issue would be worse on the Canon. Similar trends can be seen in other optically vs digitally corrected lenses.

Eloniel said:

I would like to have a single lens for landscape/astrophoto/wide portrait/streetphoto, that's why I would like a 15 or 16-35mm f2.0

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But I think Canon would rather sell you more than one lens

Exploreshootshare said:

Hmmm, funnily afaik, Sonys 28-70mm F2 (among other lenses) relies on digital correction as well. Sony even stated they were only able to built these lenses so lightweight because they relied on dc for vignetting and distortion. So, if you despise Canon for dc, please don't praise Sony lenses for it.

I really don´t mind digitally corrected lenses. In fact, I´d like to see some kind of proof which states optical corrected lenses are in fact better. Furthermore, I love the weight savings DC provides. Yes, I mean the VCM line-up. But one should also compare Canons optical corrected 28-70mm F2 (1.427 kg) and Sonys offering (0,918 kg): a difference of 500gr is huge! I don't how much DC does account for, but given the choice I´d go for a lighter DC anytime.

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I fully agree on the Sony 28-70 heavily relying on digital corrections. Only Canon products face criticism...
On the other hand, it depends -for Canon, since I don't care at all about Sony - on how heavy these corrections are, compared to purely optical ones. If a lens needs to "light up" corners by 5 EV, or if corners need massive stretching to cover FF, this could render those lenses unsuited for night pictures, due to noise.
Nothing against digital correction, within certain limits. What matters is the resulting picture, as long as it does not suffer excessively from corner noise, I'm ok with digital.
And yes, lighter is always better...

With these specs I don't really see the point of a side grade from a R6ii. I've needed a 2nd camera since I moved my R8 on and I've been waiting on the R6iii. However, considering I can buy a R6ii for so little £££ and R6iii offers very little in the way of upgrades for a Lot more £££. I can currently buy a new R6ii via grey import for £1350. A new R6iii is going to come in around £2K, maybe more.
So instead I've just bought a S/H R5 with only 50 clicks...yes it's practically brand new for only £1650. So yes, the R6iii is going to be a tough sell for Canon until the price drops to realistic prices and is seen a cheaper alternative to a mint R5. Maybe the R7ii will offer more tech for the money?

roby17269 said:

I agree we need some more "halo" offerings

Disagree: at least I wish the 35 1.2 will sway more towards the "least optical compromises" path. We already have a VCM 35 1.4 which is compact and light and needs digital corrections to achieve those qualities - what would differentiate the current 1.4 from the 1.2 you describe?
I would love a 35 1.2 more in the mold of the current 50 and 85 1.2

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It's tough to create halo lenses again. Canon have done this so many times in the past, EF 50mm f1.0 and EF 85mm f1.2 are prime (soz for the pun) examples. Even Canon are shy of matching the 50mm f1.0 in a modern context. However they were the first to make a 35mm f1.4 and a 24mm f1,4 and these days all of the competition brands have similar lenses. Even independant brands like Sigma have a 85mm f1.2 these days. Canon where the first to make a 28-70mm f2.8 and then were the first to push it to 24-70/2.8. Now it's a standard that everybody is used too. Canon made the first 70-200.2.8. There were all halo lenses of yesteryear. The 28-70/f2.0 is aleap forwards but Canon haven't bothered with a sequal....a 70-135mm f2 has been long overdue. Where is out 180mm Macro replacement or 8-15mm fisheye (an astonishing little lens).
Other brands have lenses like the 35-150mm f2-2.8 from Tamron is a legend and for many a true one lens pro portrait solution. canon had their 200mm f1.8, replaced it with the f2 version and then dropped it....Sony, Nikkon and even Sigma now have one.
What of the other big whites? Even Sigma have made a 300-600mm f4. We are still wondering why Canon seem to be dragging their heels with their halo lens developement. Why didn't Canon do drop in TC's across all their white telephoto lens range? It's baffling. I love my 400mm f2.8 II L, but the amount of time I spend swapping TC's on that lens!
So yes there are less opportunities to create halo lenses, but Canon don't seem to be that interested in making them.

BFG9000 said:

I'd never dare to say that a line of shamelessly optically uncorrected lenses with extreme vignetting is 'a great accomplishment'. I don't even think the VCM line is worth of the red ring. At that price tag the least I expect is the lenses to be optically corrected.

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Sony relies on in body correction to fix color rendering which in my book is a much bigger no-no. Check images of many of the recent gms on E to Z or with contacts taped, very yellowy color. I'm not a big fan of many VCM lenses for their oof rendition but at least for 50 and 85 they are optically corrected pretty well.

Walrus said:

My last RF "investment" acquisition is the RF 28 STM for 160€ shipped, which is pretty amazing bargain.

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That's a very good price, mine cost about 240€ (brand new), but I'm not buying internationally, only at national stores. All the gear is new, open box or returned, with standard warranty.
I'm not purchasing items as used unless the price is insane and I can return them if something's wrong (which has happened in the past).

Today I just sold a Sony ZV-E10 II, that I bought a few weeks ago for about 550€. Open box, pristine condition, all the plastic bags, unopened neck strap. It was probably opened to show to someone, as it didn't have a single fingerprint, dust speck, nothing.

My RP was one of those findings, it's my first camera I was not the first to unbox. 569€ with the RF 50mm f/1.8, the bundle that also comes with an extra battery and SD card. It was missing the SD card, everything else was fine. I sold the 50mm, and kept the camera and the extra battery for a little over 400€, with three years warranty as usual. If I can, I intend to keep it as my personal camera, I kind of like its slow pace.

Walrus said:

if I can find a R100 body only for 200€ or less (very hard)

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I think I got two of those for about 215€ (265 or 270€ with kit lens). It's been three months or so since the last time I snatched a R100.

AlanF said:

As it is an experiment for fun, I hope you don't mind my commenting. It has a certain sharpness about it in terms of lines on feathers, but there is an overall softness and some artefacts at he pixel peeking leve.

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Don't mind at all. All the mirrors are pretty soft compared to a good refractor. The Nikon 1000 is one of the better ones that I have, but MFD is about 30 ft, so to get decent magnification for the hummers, I need to use the R7 and that is pushing the lens very hard. The lens is much happier with A FF body (even the R5) and best with a 20-24 MP body like an R6 or R8. I have a Tamron 500mm that will focus very close, so when I get another nice sunny day, I will give that a try with the R5 as my hummers are pretty friendly, so I can get closer if the lens will focus closer. I have a Perkin-Elemer 800mm solid Cat (same as the Vivitar) and it is not quite sharp enough to light up the focus peaking on the R7, and also does not focus close enough to use FF on hummers, so it dropped out of the experiment. I have a 600mm Vivitar Solid Cat arriving in the next couple of days and will see if that is better than the 800 (yes, I do collect mirrors). Will also try the 500mm Canon FD, which is in the same league with the Nikon. The catch with the mirrors is that the center hole flattens the airy disc and makes the point of peak focus very hard to find and also narrows the usable DOF quite a bit compared to a refractor. BTW, the artifacts are thanks to my being a bit over aggressive with Topaz.

Is Canon still doing quadpixel photos? Or have they binned that feature?

m4ndr4ke said:

So, for every single one of the VCM lenses, I expect Canon to release a higher grade photo-oriented option within, say, 5 years from the first VCM release (50 and 85 are already available, obviously).

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I only expect a 35mm F1.2, I don´t believe there are many use cases for 20mm/ 24mm F1.2 to really create a demand Canon wants to cater to.

roby17269 said:

I agree we need some more "halo" offerings

Disagree: at least I wish the 35 1.2 will sway more towards the "least optical compromises" path. We already have a VCM 35 1.4 which is compact and light and needs digital corrections to achieve those qualities - what would differentiate the current 1.4 from the 1.2 you describe?
I would love a 35 1.2 more in the mold of the current 50 and 85 1.2

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I never said it has to be digital corrected. But at 1.2 kg the 85mm should be put on a diet. The difference between Sonys F1.2 and Canons is roughly 170 gr (778 gr to 950) so I really do think there is room for improvement in this regard. Canon really started to design lighter lenses with the arrival of the RF 100-500mm in 2021 (it had something to do with a new front element and new design approach, it was in one of the articles here on CR) and both lenses were released before that time. My theory actually fits with the rumored roadmap from 2021 which featured the 35mm f1.2, the fact it has obviously been pushed back several times and now the 24-70mm F2.8 IS VCM rumor which kind of gives a small hint what to expect of mkii´s.

m4ndr4ke said:

I've been able to make all my Canon RF acquisitions with I'd say 20 to 50% discounts. It takes a lot of patience, but I've made deals good enough to be able to sell some of that gear with profit even to MPB.
Last year I got, for instance, the RF 135mm for about 1250€ (sold for profit), and my 28-70mm f/2 for about 1950€ (kept it).
Sometimes it’s brand new gear, sometimes it’s returned items, but at least I know they haven’t been used for long, and I get three years warranty (standard in my country).
This year I also sold three or four R100s with profit, for instance.

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Well, so you're my competitor ahahah that's what I do too, buy cheap and resell for profit. My last RF "investment" acquisition is the RF 28 STM for 160€ shipped, which is pretty amazing bargain. I still have it, is so cheap I'll probably keep it anyway even if I don't use it; as I said, a M5 is coming, but if I can find a R100 body only for 200€ or less (very hard), then I'm probably going to keep it, resell the M5, and the 28 STM could became the pocket solution for R100 when I want to be super light and have a standard FoV. I already had R100 and resold it, it's pretty stupid camera, has so few point of controls that I would myself too gladly enable the touch screen for it...but it hasn't!

BFG9000 said:

I'd never dare to say that a line of shamelessly optically uncorrected lenses with extreme vignetting is 'a great accomplishment'. I don't even think the VCM line is worth of the red ring. At that price tag the least I expect is the lenses to be optically corrected.

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Hmmm, funnily afaik, Sonys 28-70mm F2 (among other lenses) relies on digital correction as well. Sony even stated they were only able to built these lenses so lightweight because they relied on dc for vignetting and distortion. So, if you despise Canon for dc, please don't praise Sony lenses for it.

I really don´t mind digitally corrected lenses. In fact, I´d like to see some kind of proof which states optical corrected lenses are in fact better. Furthermore, I love the weight savings DC provides. Yes, I mean the VCM line-up. But one should also compare Canons optical corrected 28-70mm F2 (1.427 kg) and Sonys offering (0,918 kg): a difference of 500gr is huge! I don't how much DC does account for, but given the choice I´d go for a lighter DC anytime.

roby17269 said:

Disagree: at least I wish the 35 1.2 will sway more towards the "least optical compromises" path. We already have a VCM 35 1.4 which is compact and light and needs digital corrections to achieve those qualities - what would differentiate the current 1.4 from the 1.2 you describe?
I would love a 35 1.2 more in the mold of the current 50 and 85 1.2

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I agree and I'm totally expecting such kind of fully photo-oriented lenses to keep being released.

Canon has been describing the VCMs as hybrids since the beginning. My interpretation of that is simple: hybrid implies sacrifices on both ends.

The VCM lenses:

• are not the budget options (the silver ring lenses are)
• are not Cine lenses (so they don't go all out on video)
• and they don't go all out on photo either because, for most of them, either Canon or their opponents have made better already

We have:
20mm f/1.4 VCM
24mm f/1.4 VCM
35mm f/1.4 VCM
50mm f/1.4 VCM
85mm f/1.4 VCM

Rumored:
14mm f/2 VCM

Canon, or their opponents, have:
14mm f/1.8 (EDIT: I forgot there’s a 14mm f/1.4)
Many 20mm f/1.4
Many 24mm f/1.4
35mm f/1.2
50mm f/1.2
85mm f/1.2

So, for every single one of the VCM lenses, I expect Canon to release a higher grade photo-oriented option within, say, 5 years from the first VCM release (50 and 85 are already available, obviously).

jamtra said:

I'm guessing the initial post was sarcasm?

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Right!

"strong sales growth of entry-level interchangeable-lens cameras"

But according to some FF enthusiasts nobody buys entry-level cameras anymore.

Exploreshootshare said:

Well, to be fair: it took Sony six years to after Canon released a f2 zoom to come up with one. While Sony released them, Canon released 20/24/35/50/85mm F1.4 VCM which is also a great accomplishment.

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I'd never dare to say that a line of shamelessly optically uncorrected lenses with extreme vignetting is 'a great accomplishment'. I don't even think the VCM line is worth of the red ring. At that price tag the least I expect is the lenses to be optically corrected.

Exploreshootshare said:

Well, maybe the "special one" will accommodate your wishes. I´d like to the TS at some point just because we've been talking about it forever on this forum. For my personal use, I´d wish for a 70-135/xxx F2 to be released and/ or a 28-70mm F2 on a diet. Sony is about to release its third f2 zoom, so Canon should really up their game.

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I agree we need some more "halo" offerings

Exploreshootshare said:

As I´ve stated several times: I believe the 35mm F1.2 will come, but it will be built differently compared to 50/ 85mm F1.2. I´m guessing it'll use Vcm motors and will be built lighter, have better focus breathing and maybe even an aperture ring. It'll pave the way for 50/85mm F1.2 mkii´s.

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Disagree: at least I wish the 35 1.2 will sway more towards the "least optical compromises" path. We already have a VCM 35 1.4 which is compact and light and needs digital corrections to achieve those qualities - what would differentiate the current 1.4 from the 1.2 you describe?
I would love a 35 1.2 more in the mold of the current 50 and 85 1.2

Exploreshootshare said:

Nah, it's just marketing talk. Surprisingly, this kind of teasers never give a real hint and are hardly related to the product features. Apple actually kind of perfected that.

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I'm guessing the initial post was sarcasm?

Del Paso said:

"Discover the power, unleash your passion"
Could it mean something really interesting will be announced? Or an RF 50mm f/1,8 III?

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Nah, it's just marketing talk. Surprisingly, this kind of teasers never give a real hint and are hardly related to the product features. Apple actually kind of perfected that.

BFG9000 said:

While SONY is completing its f/2 trinity with a wide angle f/2 lens in record time Canon is about to release a 45mm f/1.2 lens, a lens claimed to be better than the almost 19 year old —and not known for being good— EF 50mm f/1.2L USM lens. YAY! So exciting!

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Well, to be fair: it took Sony six years to after Canon released a f2 zoom to come up with one. While Sony released them, Canon released 20/24/35/50/85mm F1.4 VCM which is also a great accomplishment.

Del Paso said:

I'm still hoping for some interesting "L" lenses, like TS, 24-70 II, 180 macro, 70-150, 400, 35 f/1,2 etc...
The last ones were (for me) a bit boring, except the 70-200 Z and 100-300.
Nothing against cheaper lenses, but it's time for some new halo lenses, not only for Sony and Sigma ones.

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You know which one I am waiting for...
Like your good self, I have been underwhelmed by Canon's lens offerings in recent times...

Perhaps the 45 will be good for astro.