Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

Lots of misunderstandings and irrelevancies there...and I won't address most of them.
At the same time, I don’t think it’s accurate to say pixel size is irrelevant. On a fixed sensor size, increasing resolution reduces pixel area, which affects per-pixel signal-to-noise. While normalization can reduce those differences when images are resized, in real-world use—especially at high ISO—those factors can still influence how noise presents in the actual image.
If crop your images to a few hundred pixels, then that might even matter. For example, it might make a difference in this picture of one of my cats.

Screenshot 2026-04-02 at 9.36.41 PM.png

But...that's not really much of a picture now, is it?

My concern is more about how these cameras are actually used. For action and wildlife photography, I’m often shooting at ISO 3200–6400+ to maintain shutter speeds around 1/1000, and I’m not downsampling to evaluate noise—I’m looking at the image at native resolution or cropping, which is very common in birding. In that context, how noise presents in the actual file matters, not just how it behaves after normalization.
As I mentioned previously, at the light levels where those ISOs are used shot noise dominates and read noise is essentially irrelevant. All of the 'improvements' that you think are meaningful (bigger pixels, BSI, per-pixel S/N, etc.) affect read noise, albeit in a functionally insignificant way. Shot noise is dependent on the amount of light being collected by the sensor, meaning all of your arguments about this issue are irrelevant.

If you want less noise at high ISO, you need a bigger sensor to collect more light. It's really that simple, despite your unwillingness or inability to accept that.

As an action photographer, I’m really hoping the Canon EOS R7 Mark II does deliver a meaningful improvement in noise performance.
While you're hoping for that meaningful improvement in high ISO noise performance in the R7II, you should also hope for unicorn rides and for Canon to set the price for the R7II at $14. Those are all at just about the same level of likelihood, the only difference being the first one is not going to happen because of physics while the last two are just silly fantasies.
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Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

It does affect full well capacity, though. This means a change in analog amplification levels to avoid blowing out highlights, which means other sensels with very little light striking them are also amplified less, which puts them closer to the read noise floor (but not Poisson distribution noise, which is reduced proportional to the area of each sensel). So this is mostly a thing for base ISO. Is it near the difference of an APS-C sensor compared to a FF sensor? No, it is not. But the difference is still there. The same with BSI vs non-BSI sensors. The smaller each sensel is, the higher percentage of that sensel is blocked from incoming light by the circuitry. Gapless lenses in front of the sensor help to refract more of the light towards the parts of the sensel where there is no circuitry, but they're not precise enough to completely redirect all light to areas of each sensel with no circuitry blocking it. Dual Pixel AF sensors have twice as much circuitry as sensors with the same "effective" resolution which are not Dual Pixel AF sensors. Again, is it near as significant with sensels in the 3-4µm neighborhood as with phone sensels in the sub 1µm range? No, but it's still there.
Technically correct, practically irrelevant. Even at base ISO...what is base ISO? Setting a camera to ISO 100 (or whatever its lowest non-expanded ISO setting is) does not mean that's the base ISO. Differences in real base ISO between one camera model and the next also fall into that 'practically irrelevant' category. Important to pedants and measurebators, not to photographers.

Sure, you can stand up and argue that when set to ISO 400, one APS-C camera has the image noise of ISO 412 and another has the noise of ISO 397. BFD. For an APS-C camera set to ISO 400, a full frame camera set to ISO 1000 would have same the image noise, and that's a meaningful difference.
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Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

Now the problem I have with all the "rumours" or speculation is that it was suggested strongly that this MII was targeted for action shooters. If that is the case (and I now question if that rumour was true), then they should not have increased pixel density (it wasn't necessary) at the cost of the same or worse signal to noise in the camera.

You're assuming wildlife photographers prioritize S/N performance over "reach". With advent of modern AI noise reduction, it's now all about reach.
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Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

I understand the point about total light collection and how, when images are normalized to the same output size, noise performance can converge. That makes sense in a controlled comparison, but it’s not really how I—or many others—use the camera in practice. In real-world shooting at higher ISOs, noise is a visible and often limiting factor in image quality, and that’s the condition where we were hoping to see an improvement with the R7 MII.

At the same time, I don’t think it’s accurate to say pixel size is irrelevant. On a fixed sensor size, increasing resolution reduces pixel area, which affects per-pixel signal-to-noise. While normalization can reduce those differences when images are resized, in real-world use—especially at high ISO—those factors can still influence how noise presents in the actual image.

I would also question whether dynamic range charts are the right way to evaluate this specific point. Dynamic range is related to noise, but it’s not the same as how noise actually presents in an image—especially at higher ISO. Dynamic range charts are helpful, but they’re not a direct proxy for perceived image noise. Two sensors can plot very similarly in DR and still produce different-looking images at high ISO, particularly when viewed at native resolution or when cropped. That distinction matters a lot for the kind of shooting we’re talking about.

My concern is more about how these cameras are actually used. For action and wildlife photography, I’m often shooting at ISO 3200–6400+ to maintain shutter speeds around 1/1000, and I’m not downsampling to evaluate noise—I’m looking at the image at native resolution or cropping, which is very common in birding. In that context, how noise presents in the actual file matters, not just how it behaves after normalization.

More broadly, this comes down to a design tradeoff. Resolution, noise performance, and video capability are competing priorities on a fixed sensor size. Increasing resolution shifts the balance toward detail, cropping flexibility, and enabling features like 8K video, but it doesn’t necessarily improve high ISO image quality—and it can limit how much improvement you can realize there.

That’s really the point I was making. If newer sensor technologies like BSI improve efficiency, those gains can be used in different ways. You can spend them on more pixels, or you can spend them on better signal-to-noise performance. From a photographer’s perspective—especially for action and low-light shooting—I would have preferred to see those gains translate into visibly cleaner images at higher ISO rather than increased resolution.

You could even make a reasonable case that a lower resolution APS-C sensor—something closer to 24MP—would better serve that use case. Larger pixels would improve per-pixel signal-to-noise, and in many real-world scenarios where shutter speed and ISO are the limiting factors, that could result in better overall image quality. Of course, that comes at the expense of cropping flexibility and video features, which some users value more.

It also raises a more basic question about who this camera is really for. Canon seems to be positioning it for both action/wildlife photographers and hybrid/video users, but those goals are not fully aligned. Pushing resolution higher to support 8K makes sense from a video standpoint, but for action photographers—who are often working in difficult light—the priority is usually cleaner high ISO performance, not additional resolution.

By trying to cover both use cases in a single design, Canon is making a compromise that may end up being at odds with both groups. If the improvements from a new sensor are largely used to increase resolution rather than improve noise performance, then the real-world benefit for low-light action shooting may be limited. At the same time, if video performance relies heavily on noise reduction to clean up high ISO footage, that can come at the expense of fine detail—raising questions about how meaningful that extra resolution really is.

At higher ISO, where shot noise dominates and images are often pushed in challenging light, differences in per-pixel signal-to-noise and how the sensor handles amplification can still influence real-world results in ways that aren’t fully captured by normalized comparisons.

So it’s not that higher resolution is inherently worse—it’s that it reflects a choice about what the camera is optimized for. My concern is that in trying to be a one-size-fits-all solution for both videographers and action photographers, the camera may not deliver the level of improvement either group is really looking for. A more focused design—either prioritizing high ISO image quality for photographers or leaning fully into hybrid/video capability—might have resulted in a more compelling upgrade.

As an action photographer, I’m really hoping the Canon EOS R7 Mark II does deliver a meaningful improvement in noise performance. But if those gains are largely offset by design tradeoffs around resolution and video capability, I think I—and many others shooting in similar conditions—may come away disappointed.
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Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

I definetly don't understand your discussion. In some cases you seem to agree but in the end you disagree. That is confusing.

I think we agree that for the same chip size, as you increase the number of pixels (or decrease the size of the individual collection sites), for each site as the density increases, the individual site collects less light. So, Canon in increasing pixel count, actually decreased the ability of each site to collect light and decreased the signal to noise (made the noise performance worse) of each site.

That's only the case for what we call "read" noise, or noise produced by the camera's own circuitry. The other component of noise, called Poisson distribution or "shot" noise, is based on the randomness of the distribution of photons in light. Shot noise increases or decreases at the same rate as surface area if the intensity of the overall field of light is the same. (If the light intensity changes with all else being equal, shot noise only increases as the square root of the increase in light, and is why brighter exposure values at low ISO result in much less shot noise than dimmer exposures which use higher ISO to amplify light - and noise - by a higher factor). Read noise is most significant at base ISO. Shot noise is the much larger component of noise at exposure values which require using higher ISO settings.
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Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

No, we don't agree on that. For an individual pixel, smaller means more noise, sure. People who measurebate pixels love discussing that. People who take pictures care about image noise. Image noise is fundamentally independent of pixel size, but rather depends on total light gathered, which is determined by the area of the image sensor, not the number of pixels packed into that sensor. Divide a FF sensor into 45 million pixels or 24 million pixels, the total light gathered is the same.

It does affect full well capacity, though. This means a change in analog amplification levels to avoid blowing out highlights, which means other sensels with very little light striking them are also amplified less, which puts them closer to the read noise floor (but not Poisson distribution noise, which is reduced proportional to the area of each sensel). So this is mostly a thing for base ISO. Is it near the difference of an APS-C sensor compared to a FF sensor? No, it is not. But the difference is still there. The same with BSI vs non-BSI sensors. The smaller each sensel is, the higher percentage of that sensel is blocked from incoming light by the circuitry. Gapless lenses in front of the sensor help to refract more of the light towards the parts of the sensel where there is no circuitry, but they're not precise enough to completely redirect all light to areas of each sensel with no circuitry blocking it. Dual Pixel AF sensors have twice as much circuitry as sensors with the same "effective" resolution which are not Dual Pixel AF sensors. Again, is it near as significant with sensels in the 3-4µm neighborhood as with phone sensels in the sub 1µm range? No, but it's still there.
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Is Vistilen the Next Third-Party RF Lens Manufacturer?

Probably a shell company set up specifically to sell RF versions of the Meike lenses under a different brand. That way when Canon decides to sue the pants off them, there are no assets to go after. That shell company can just be shut down and another one will pop up. This might end up being the way the Chinese brands get their lenses onto RF.
Brand identification/ marketing would be hard if phoenix legal structures were used.
It is possible that these lens would only be available within China where it would be harder for Canon to enforce any copyright/patent infringements.

Entirely likely that they use EF autofocus with RF physical mount.
The lenses don't have to have the fastest or quietest AF motors and still be competitive vs native lenses.
AF Meike lenses are relatively inexpensive eg 35-85mm f1.4-f2 models range from USD135-USD400 on B&H. The price would be cheaper within China.

We are seeing more hardware eg phones that are only available in China where the middle class market is becoming a big enough segment to support volume - especially at the price points vs native lenses.
Xiaomi, Vivo and Oppo all have china-excluding models for instance and these are not low end models.

For perspective, 2% of China's population is about 30m people who have >USD50k personal disposable income ie prosumers.
Add the number of professionals eg wedding photographers then the addressable market is larger.

Canon may also not go for them as it would mean more MILC body sales in China.
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Canon EOS R7 Mark II Rumored Specifications Round-up

I have been writing a fair bit about the EOS R7 Mark II in recent weeks, and with good reason. It's good clickbait, and many people who may be interested haven't been following along yet.. That said, I am trying to be as truthful as I possibly can while stoking the rumors. A little hype […]

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Show your Bird Portraits

I do a lot of butterfly and dragonfly photography and much prefer the RF 100-500mm for that, or even the RF 100-400mm (or adapted EF 100-400mm for you), unlike for birds where I prefer the RF 200-800mm. The best shots are when you are close up, and you can get to about 1.2-1.1 meter away with the 100-500mm and 100-400mm, with magnifications of ~0.3x and ~0.4x, respectively. The mfd of the 200-800mm at 800mm is 3.3m and you get much less magnification, and have to zoom out to get closer and boost the magnification. It's relatively infrequent that you can't get close, and some of the keen ones use macro lenses. With the 100-400 and 100-500mm, you can get sufficiently close to dragonflies to resolve the individual lenses on their eyes, and I've never been able to do that with the 200-800mm. Even better is that the RF 100-500 takes the 2xTC well and you can get ~0.6x magnification at 1000mm.
The reminder for the MFDs for various zoom lenses is appropriate.

The reality of the butterfly shot in question here (via the 200-800) is that I left my front door with the hope of imaging birds (and I did!). The acquired image is, sort of, good enough...despite the fact that indeed, I was required to take a step or two back from the subject, in order to acquire focus...at the bush near the corner of our garage.

But the lens, as used, resolved the images for the sensor sufficiently well, I think, for demonstration purposes.

This sort of thing is, in fact, my reality when it comes to photography--'sufficiently well'--and depends on the gear that I have in my hands.

As for as 'the keen ones' and 'macro lenses'...my few attempts at macro photography?

The results (with bugs and insects) indicate I need more practice. Much more...not so keen, apparently.:cool:
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Show your Bird Portraits

Here are cropped images acquired the other day with the R5ii + 200-800@800 combination.

The first one (tufted titmouse) was quite far away--the range offered by the 800 was valuable here in the unedited image below:

View attachment 228726

I did edit/pretty up the image for the Northern Mockingbird a bit (I kind like the lighting). The 800 range here is useful because I like to print these at 13x19 and need all the pixels I can get.

View attachment 228727

I like the 200-800 lens. A lot. Your question here has so many dimensions. In a sense, what you are asking (primarily) is...are there particular situations where the extra reach (to 800) is valuable?

For me, the extra reach is valuable (sometimes ;)).

But I never owned the R5 nor do I own the RF 100-500; there are many comparisons on this site between the 200-800 and 100-500...

Also, I rely on an adapted EF 100-400 II when appropriate (instead of the RF 100-500).

I also own (and use) the very good RF 100-400.

=====

Two butterfly R5ii + 200-800@800 straight out of camera jpegs (but cropped) are here:


If/when you purchase the 200-800, you can post your own thoughts and comparisons!
I do a lot of butterfly and dragonfly photography and much prefer the RF 100-500mm for that, or even the RF 100-400mm (or adapted EF 100-400mm for you), unlike for birds where I prefer the RF 200-800mm. The best shots are when you are close up, and you can get to about 1.2-1.1 meter away with the 100-500mm and 100-400mm, with magnifications of ~0.3x and ~0.4x, respectively. The mfd of the 200-800mm at 800mm is 3.3m and you get much less magnification, and have to zoom out to get closer and boost the magnification. It's relatively infrequent that you can't get close, and some of the keen ones use macro lenses. With the 100-400 and 100-500mm, you can get sufficiently close to dragonflies to resolve the individual lenses on their eyes, and I've never been able to do that with the 200-800mm. Even better is that the RF 100-500 takes the 2xTC well and you can get ~0.6x magnification at 1000mm.
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Canon Says it’s up to Sigma to Make Full-Frame RF Lenses

Sure, and in terms of market cap, Canon is closer to Leica or Sigma than they are to Sony. Much, MUCH closer. Not entirely sure what the point is, of course.
He was talking about production capacity for cameras and lenses, which is very relevant to the topic at hand. Market cap…isn’t. But thanks for trying, at least you’re spot on about not getting the point. :rolleyes:
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Canon Says it’s up to Sigma to Make Full-Frame RF Lenses

I rely on @Del Paso for his explanation of events the side of the English Channel, but he will call it la Manche. So, it's like minds separated by a dispute over the name of a stretch of water, and our use of French.;)
Makes me think of the wonderful Jersey lobsters and scallops, fresh from la Manche!
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Show your Bird Portraits

Great pics! :)

Btw: What is your experience with the R5(ii) + RF 200-800mm combo? I´d really like to know what your experience is. Maybe compared to the RF 100-500mm? :) thx in advance!
Here are cropped images acquired the other day with the R5ii + 200-800@800 combination.

The first one (tufted titmouse) was quite far away--the range offered by the 800 was valuable here in the unedited image below:

K41A3648 picasa crop.JPG

I did edit/pretty up the image for the Northern Mockingbird a bit (I kind like the lighting). The 800 range here is useful because I like to print these at 13x19 and need all the pixels I can get.

K41A3800 picasa 2 crop-topaz2-denoise ps fix.jpg

I like the 200-800 lens. A lot. Your question here has so many dimensions. In a sense, what you are asking (primarily) is...are there particular situations where the extra reach (to 800) is valuable?

For me, the extra reach is valuable (sometimes ;)).

But I never owned the R5 nor do I own the RF 100-500; there are many comparisons on this site between the 200-800 and 100-500...

Also, I rely on an adapted EF 100-400 II when appropriate (instead of the RF 100-500).

I also own (and use) the very good RF 100-400.

=====

Two butterfly R5ii + 200-800@800 straight out of camera jpegs (but cropped) are here:


If/when you purchase the 200-800, you can post your own thoughts and comparisons!
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Canon Says it’s up to Sigma to Make Full-Frame RF Lenses

Obviously I'm Team Canon in terms of gear.

BUT

The camera bodies after the R6 and R5 did kill a number of EF lenses from third parties. In some cases, these EF lenses simply confirmed focus and reported lens data, such as the IRIX lenses. I doubt very much that the EF instruction set changed for any technical reason in the R6 II / R5 II / R3 / R1 and so am inclined to believe Canon scuttled those lenses despite being yesteryear tech. It very much would necessitate upgrades to new Canon specific lenses and probably raise the ire of customers against the third parties. Then, RF mount adaptations of EF lenses from various Chinese manufactures "disappeared" along with their support.

It's really, really hard to not believe that, at a minimum, Canon is being deliberately antagonistic.

A company like Sigma is probably established enough that the game between them and Canon is somewhat gentlemanly and thus for whatever set of reasons to them there are now Sigma lenses for the RF crop sensor. But, I doubt other than engineering for 35mm projection across 20mm of air for the flange distance (Sony has 18mm of air) there's not much else left for Sigma to do for FF, other than make Canon happy. In fact, I'm starting to think the primary motivation for Canon's allowance for the Sigma crop lenses is simply to sidestep antitrust, as informed by my own corporate work.

Unless Canon or Sigma is very specific in their statement, history suggests the FF electronic lenses from third parties are de facto blocked, regardless of the legal or financial disincentives being used.

But I think the true disgruntlement here is that Canon has not produced a full line for quality mid-tier offerings for a focal range that matches the EF options over the 1990s and 2000s at equivalent pricing. There are steps in that direction, like the 200-800 which is an excellent compromise lens by all accounts. VCM is kinda-sorta in that direction, tech great but cost meh. More is needed to be done. And that pinch makes people look at Sigma, which is an excellent third party example of what can be done, and go... man, I wish I had some of those options in the middle.

If we just sit here and talk the best of the best, then Canon has delivered on all accounts. And priced accordingly. But if we talk great yet competent at hobbyist levels of abuse and engagement then there are huge holes in the lineup compared to what was before in terms of both cost and capability.

I think there's hope. At 6-8 lenses a year, there's room for mid-tier excellence to come into being at reasonable prices. A perfect example I return to over and over is the 300mm f/4 L (IS and non-IS) — it offered 90% of the base 2.8 performance and 80% of the TC performance in a form and cost that allowed Canon and professionals to easily justify the 2.8 option while meeting the interests and wants of the well heeled hobbyists. More of this is needed. Sigma gives that to Sony and Nikon. Does it matter who gives it to Canon? No. But Canon has only very reluctantly shown an interest in doing that in-house for FF up to this point in RF despite making oodles of cash.

It's valid for Canon enthusiasts to stand up and say that they've noticed and its starting to move from annoying to semi-insulting. It's been almost eight years since the RF mount was released. Mid-tier L was well established at the long end by then for EF.
I agree with most of what you wrote, but for a niggle: I would not agree that
If we just sit here and talk the best of the best, then Canon has delivered on all accounts.
They started great with the 2(3) f/1.2 lenses and the f/2 zoom, they amazed with the R5/6 duo and the 100-300 and a few other great lenses (I am a sucker for the 100-500), but after, from my personal perspective (and no, rumors do not count):
  • No high res R1 / R3
  • No new exotics (ideally with built-in TC)
  • No TS lenses
  • And the real original sin: no 35 f/1.2 :ROFLMAO:
Of course I assume that eventually they will address those exactly or closely enough... but we'd get there faster if (e.g.) we could mount Sigma lenses on RF cameras. And of course these are my personal desires... so just change "all" to "some" or even "most" and we're good 😇
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