Canon confirms 8K capable EOS R camera in development

[BurningPlatform]

If Canon says they have an 8k camera on their R roadmap, it does not mean it is on the 2019 roadmap. Or even 2020. Maybe they have a 5 year roadmap, who knows.

 

[crazyrunner33]

Yes, my mistake in thinking 8k was really 8k and not 7.6k

8K cinema is over 8K. The 7,680 is for broadcast. This is to make it easier to display older TV content on new sets and newer content on old sets. 7680/2= 3840 which is broadcast 4k. Divide that(referring to the horizontal measurements) by 2 and you get Full HD. Full HD/1.5=720p. DCI keeps the same vertical height as broadcast, it's just slightly wider.

 

[SecureGSM]

I would be interested in why you assume that a sensor that can do 8K video take better stills? I'm curious.

from my uneducated ( in video) point of view the camera 8K capable sensor would have much higher sensor readout / bandwidth / data throughput capabilities than current generation of cameras can offer. 1 Gb per second or thererabout at least ??? much higher than current C-Cfast speeds. SD Express then.
https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/06...g-985mb-s-transfer-speeds-and-128tb-capacity/

for still that translates in a much higher frames per second capabilities (electronic shutter ??), lower latencies and higher buffer capacities.

 

[SecureGSM]

I never understood this kind of thinking. Ok, maybe you cannot buy an 8K monitor now but you can do it in 5 years? I agree it's a niche feature and not many computers will be able even to process it but in 5 years 8K could be like 4K now.
I can already see an usage for it: to extract 30MP stills from short video clips where fast action happens.

if you expect extracted stills to be sharp, then a very high shutter speed is required. can video be captured at 1/2000s shutter speed?

 

[Loswr]

if you expect extracted stills to be sharp, then a very high shutter speed is required. can video be captured at 1/2000s shutter speed?

Sure, but it won’t be usable as video.

 

[BurningPlatform]

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The final Canon8K body pixel count may even be a 3:2 aspect ratio 9000 x 6000 pixel (54 megapixel) to satisfy the Phase One-in-a-Canon-Body Fans!
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You Shall See Soon Enough!
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REMEMBER! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST !!!!
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In my fantasy drone there is the Canon R-SQUARE sensor, with 9000*9000 (81 MP), which allows for EIS as well as both VERTICAL and HORIZONTAL video! And also full sensor SQUARE video.

 

[SecureGSM]

Sure, but it won’t be usable as video.

exactly my point.. how one can extract stills out of fast action videos if each individual frame was captured at 1/60s shutter speed or whatever speed that might be. I am not a videographer, sorry. to capture fast action each frame has to be captured at a much faster shutter speeds unless the blur is what one intended to capture.

 

[Josh Leavitt]

8k video in the near future won't be a surprise. And it won't be due to a revolution in sensor architecture, but rather an evolution to video codecs. The new H.265 and MPEG-H formats are delivering identical quality to that of H.264 and MPEG-4 at half the bit rate. So 8k@30fps, 4k@120fps, and 1080p@240fps should become fairly common place among high resolution cameras with all the recent efficiency improvements made to image sensor processors.

But even with the massive improvements to compression and quality with H.265, that's still going to be a ton of data when recording at those resolutions and frame rates. So hopefully we'll start seeing the new SD Express and CF Express card slots appearing in higher end EOS R cameras.

 

[criscokkat]

there are already 8K tvs on the market. have been for a year. they are still extremely expensive and there is almost zero content but it is coming.

in 2013 the average price for a 4k tv was $8,000. In 2018 it was $943.

Anyone shooting professionally know the current consumer can't see 8k much. There's really not even any 8k projectors in cinemas - even 4k projectors are less than 30% of the theaters in the US.

But 5 years from now, 8k will be commonplace, and consumers will want that content in higher resolutions and a certain subset will pay more for that.

Plus on the roadmap in this case probably means just in time for the 2020 Olympics.

 

[jayphotoworks]

exactly my point.. how one can extract stills out of fast action videos if each individual frame was captured at 1/60s shutter speed or whatever speed that might be. I am not a videographer, sorry. to capture fast action each frame has to be captured at a much faster shutter speeds unless the blur is what one intended to capture.

I think the confusion is whether the intended deliverable aims to achieve a cinematic look. The video won't suddenly become unusable if you commit to a faster shutter speed, it simply won't appear as cinematic if you were to shoot at 24fps with a 180 degree shutter angle (1/48). There are a few examples of cinema utilizing fast shutter speeds. It isn't a hard and fast rule that you have to commit to a 180 degree shutter rule. Saving Private Ryan used a 45 degree shutter angle (1/198) and Mad Max went even higher in certain action sequences.

Here is an example of various shutter speeds and the impact on the video:


If I didn't mind breaking this "rule," I could definitely capture fast action in video using a fast shutter speed and also be able to extract crisp stills from the video stream. I think it is simply a matter of understanding the impact of each decision and whether that approach will suit your intended need.

 

[peters]

Really so where do I buy an 8K monitor or smart TV to watch the video from this camera. Being a 100% still shooter I wish they would make investments in better sensors than this Niche stuff.

8K isnt about delivering in 8k, its about downsampling (and cropping and recompose if needed) to 4k.=)

 

[crazyrunner33]

if you expect extracted stills to be sharp, then a very high shutter speed is required. can video be captured at 1/2000s shutter speed?

It most certainly can, the result is more of a studder look, but I've gotten by with it in interviews without anyone else noticing the issue. Typically, filmmakers choose a 180 degree shutter, meaning 30 fps with 1/60 shutter. With a 180 degree shutter, you can still get some clear and sharp photos, it just takes a little scrolling to find one without much movement.

I recently set aside the GH5 and used the 5D with RAW video for a music video with a shutter of 1/50. Even with camera movement, I was able to extract a few raw 2 megapixel photographs, nobody complained about the resolution or shutter. They were used for websites and social media, not print.

 

[nchoh]

Yes, it maximizes the format possibilities as opposed to a regular m4/3 that works like all other sensors with a simple crop. The maximum area that can be covered in any aspect ratio is used, as you go narrower it goes wider. Very cool engineering solution and means the actual area used off a m4/3 sensor is close to bigger sensors that are simple crops.

The standard M43 specifications already maximizes the format possibilities by providing 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 formats; the 4:3 ration of the sensor chosen for this optimization. Can you elaborate on what you mean by " it maximizes the format possibilities as opposed to a regular m4/3"?

 

[Don Haines]

It most certainly can, the result is more of a studder look, but I've gotten by with it in interviews without anyone else noticing the issue. Typically, filmmakers choose a 180 degree shutter, meaning 30 fps with 1/60 shutter. With a 180 degree shutter, you can still get some clear and sharp photos, it just takes a little scrolling to find one without much movement.

I recently set aside the GH5 and used the 5D with RAW video for a music video with a shutter of 1/50. Even with camera movement, I was able to extract a few raw 2 megapixel photographs, nobody complained about the resolution or shutter. They were used for websites and social media, not print.

You can always shoot your video at more than 30fps

To me, the greatest thing about the ability to shoot 8K video at 30fps, means that the hardware should support 4K video at 120fps, and that means smoother motion and better extracted stills, particularly if you assume that the extracted stills will be shown on a 4K monitor anyway.....

 

[privatebydesign]

The standard M43 specifications already maximizes the format possibilities by providing 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 formats; the 4:3 ration of the sensor chosen for this optimization. Can you elaborate on what you mean by " it maximizes the format possibilities as opposed to a regular m4/3"?

Regular m4/3 take a 4:3 sensor and crop to 3:2 and 16:9, that is the number of pixels on the long side stays constant in all formats but this wastes potential sensor area in the lens mount. The GH5s takes a bigger sensor so the long axis pixel number goes up as the aspect ratio gets narrower, they are not simple crops.

The GH5 has a 20MP sensor with a long side of 5184px, in 4:3 that is the long side in 16:9 that is the long side. The GH5s has a 10MP sensor optimized for video, the long side of the sensor is 4019px, in 4:3 it uses 3680 x 2760, in 16:9 it uses 4016 x 2256, these are both the maximum amount of sensor area that can be exposed in that aspect ratio through the lens mount.

 

[Loswr]

Sure, but it won’t be usable as video.

@jayphotoworks and @crazyrunner33, thanks for correcting my misunderstanding of the effects of a high shutter speed during video capture on the usability of the resulting video footage. The example was particularly helpful. The choppiness at ‘action-stopping’ shutter speeds of 1/2000 and up is noticeable, but not really all that bad – and for some action shooting might even convey a desirable ‘edginess’ to the footage.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

You mean,


More like, always a year away. Goddamn canon....

Far more than a year away. Development like this takes 5 years. A sensor that can readout 30, 60, 0r 120 fps at 8K is not trivial. They exist, but need a huge power supply to run the computer. Not for a small camera. You can, of course do 8k with a camera if you cheat and uprez from a lower resolution display. Expect to see some of that.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

8k resolution appears be the ideal intersection of video and stills sensor development. I'd like to see that as the standard going forward accross the industry. The sooner we get there the better!
Although it seems counter-intuitive. Canon might do better reading out an 8K sensor at 1:1 than they do trying to down-sample their current 6.5k sensors to 4K.

 

[crazyrunner33]

8k resolution appears be the ideal intersection of video and stills sensor development. I'd like to see that as the standard going forward accross the industry. The sooner we get there the better!
Although it seems counter-intuitive. Canon might do better reading out an 8K sensor at 1:1 than they do trying to down-sample their current 6.5k sensors to 4K.

That's a good point, just like with the 4K on their cinema cameras. It's the reason the 5D Mark III can record a variation of 3.5K RAW. There'd still be a big hurdle on the encoder they use and the sensor readout speed.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

That's a good point, just like with the 4K on their cinema cameras. It's the reason the 5D Mark III can record a variation of 3.5K RAW. There'd still be a big hurdle on the encoder they use and the sensor readout speed.

Yes. It's a tremendous amount of data to read off the sensor and write through the I/O. But, IMO, the empasis should be on the camera being a capture and recording device not a device for image processing. Processing can be down downstream on a device more suited to that job.