Canon releases an official statement about the EOS R5 and EOS R6 heat concerns

[davidhfe]

Well if you buy it for stills only, your lashing out two grand or more on video specs that you don't want. Which is precisely why I'm not overly enamoured with it.

Not necessarily. At least part of that cost is for the sensor and fast readout speed. In fact, I suspect that had they not been interested in developing video, neither of those stills-useful features would be in this camera.

[Yes, this is the thousandth time someone has had to point this out to people who assume video adds huge $$$$ to the price of a camera with no benefit to stills shooters.]

The original 5D, which did not have video capabilities of any kind, launched at over $4000 in 2020 dollars. Doesn't sound like Canon is driving up the cost with video features. The 5Dmk2 was the least expensive of the 5 series, and it launched the whole DSLR video thing.

And if you're after cost reductions, you can get a camera that blows the 5D out of the water in terms of shooting performance and IQ with the R or RP, which are like 1/3 the price of that original 5D.

Edit: I would add the 5D4 is actual a clear example of a place where Canon didn't think much about the video. Video modes were a definite afterthought on that one. It's a overall strong performer, but it hasn't aged super well, especially in terms of speed and autofocus—both features that share sensor and processor needs with video. Launch price in 2020 dollars? Around $3750.

 

[cornieleous]

Usual dopey comments by stills shooters who would never accept a stills camera that overheats under normal operating conditions but thinks it’s perfectly fine that video cameras do.
Of course other manufactures cameras don’t overheat under normal conditions but let’s not let reality burst our our feel good bubble.
You can’t make this stuff up. I have to find something better to do with my time.

Insulting stills photographers and asserting yourself as somehow the one who gets it and the rest of us are missing the point is a GREAT way to present yourself. Very objective and intelligent. It does reveal you are emotional, and completely ignorant of anything to do with the underlying technology while having a really loud opinion. There is nothing normal about 8K or oversampled high bitrate 4K in a MILC, it is just now barely possible. The only people calling it normal operation and acting like there is a problem are 100% unreasonable. Did you bash Sony when their first in class cameras were overheating? I am just curious... did you act like you were personally slighted by their unusable brick? Or did you understand then that technology evolves over time and the first instance is never perfect because it is NEW?

What amazing brand are you currently shooting high bitrate 8K or oversampled 4K that 'just works'? List all these wonderful manufacturers. Are you going to pay 700 bucks for enough memory card to shoot 8K for even the 20 minutes? Do you have a multi thousand dollar computer with enough cores, GPUs, SSDs, RAM to process that 8K workflow? Where are your 8K monitors? When is the last time you edited oversampled high bitrate full frame 4K60 of more than 30 minutes length? Can we see some of the projects you needed this for? Lets compare ACTUAL DATA RATES of all overheating cameras on the market so you can explain to us lowly simpletons how foolish we are. Clearly you are an expert in device physics, because anyone who knows about electronics (even the basics) knows transistors generate heat when they switch. The faster they are switching, the higher voltage and current a chip runs at, and the more of them, the hotter it gets. As such, higher rates of bits toggling is heat, and no camera brand is immune to it like you falsely state. The reason CPUs, GPUs, and every other type of ASIC or integrated circuit get so much better every couple years is because transistor voltage goes down, more are fit onto a chip with less power, and so capability vs. heat trends up- but you are clearly an expert in electronics and heat dissipation already so....

Why do you people insist on ignoring very basic PHYSICS? Or is it just that you are part of the perpetually offended crowd and nothing is ever good enough? Why ARE you wasting your time here if this camera, not even shipped yet, is such a brick of a failure?

 

[Czardoom]

....Why do you people insist on ignoring very basic PHYSICS? Or is it just that you are part of the perpetually offended crowd and nothing is ever good enough? Why ARE you wasting your time here if this camera, not even shipped yet, is such a brick of a failure?

Because people are stupid.
Because people want a $10,000 camera for $3,899
Because people love to whine about things that won't actually be a problem.

 

[Jonathan Thill]

I was over at FStoppers yesterday (I drove fast and didn’t roll down the windows) and I was really disappointed in the tone of the conversations and the interaction between members. I’ve never joined, only lurked, but dang and yikes.

That got me, awesome

 

[sanj]

Wow, you used it 7 times and that's verifies overall reliability. Forget about the hundreds of other RED cameras out there.

7? Guess you are clueless how long it takes to shoot a feature. Btw have you ever shot with a RED or are limited by second-hand knowledge? Suggestion: Google how many features that have been shot by RED and currently in production.

 

[Bert63]

Because people are stupid.
Because people want a $10,000 camera for $3,899å
Because people l

Insulting stills photographers and asserting yourself as somehow the one who gets it and the rest of us are missing the point is a GREAT way to present yourself. Very objective and intelligent. It does reveal you are emotional, and completely ignorant of anything to do with the underlying technology while having a really loud opinion. There is nothing normal about 8K or oversampled high bitrate 4K in a MILC, it is just now barely possible. The only people calling it normal operation and acting like there is a problem are 100% unreasonable. Did you bash Sony when their first in class cameras were overheating? I am just curious... did you act like you were personally slighted by their unusable brick? Or did you understand then that technology evolves over time and the first instance is never perfect because it is NEW?

What amazing brand are you currently shooting high bitrate 8K or oversampled 4K that 'just works'? List all these wonderful manufacturers. Are you going to pay 700 bucks for enough memory card to shoot 8K for even the 20 minutes? Do you have a computer with enough cores, GPUs, SSDs, RAM to process that wrokflow? Where are your 8K monitors? When is the last time you edited oversampled 4K60 of more than 30 minutes length? Can we see some of the projects you needed this for? Lets compare ACTUAL DATA RATES of all overheating cameras on the market so you can explain to us lowly simpletons how foolish we are. Clearly you are an expert in device physics, because anyone who knows about electronics (even the basics) knows transistors generate heat when they switch. The faster they are switching, the higher voltage and current a chip runs at, and the more of them, the hotter it gets. As such, higher rates of bits toggling is heat, and no camera brand is immune to it like you falsely state. The reason CPUs, GPUs, and every other type of ASIC or integrated circuit get so much better every couple years is because transistor voltage goes down, more are fit onto a chip with less power, and so capability vs. heat trends up- but you are clearly an expert in electronics and heat dissipation already so....

Why do you people insist on ignoring very basic PHYSICS? Or is it just that you are part of the perpetually offended crowd and nothing is ever good enough? Why ARE you wasting your time here if this camera, not even shipped yet, is such a brick of a failure?

That’s gonna leave a mark.

 

[BeenThere]

Because people are stupid.
Because people want a $10,000 camera for $3,899
Because people love to whine about things that won't actually be a problem.

Trolls are on a mission that has nothing to do with legitimate debate. Just ignore their posts and hopefully they will move on.

 

[bhf3737]

Come on guys. Canon has come from this configuration for 8K video in 2015 that had a setup that required nitrogen cooling system, a set of four external recorders in a box for recording and with fiber-optic connectivity to the camera that weighted more than 40kg to move 11 Tera-byte data per hour.
Now in 2020 that whole gigantic system fits into the R5 camera and your right hand! That is a giant technology leap which needs to be praised rather than bashed and nagged and lashed and trashed.

 

[Jonathan Thill]

7? Guess you are clueless how long it takes to shoot a feature. Btw have you ever shot with a RED or are limited by second-hand knowledge? Suggestion: Google how many features that have been shot by RED and currently in production.

People focus here, we are suppose to be either praising or bashing Canon Cameras. We can all focus on RED cameras next week

 

[mppix]

So, for stills only, doesn't look like anyone can find any flaws? I know, still early.

No in-body RF flash transmitter (does IR focus assist even work?) and flash sync speed is still 1/200

 

[mppix]

Still unaddressed: Can you mitigate some of these heat concerns, at least at 4K60 and below, by using an external recorder? That way at least you're offloading the h.265 compression to an external unit.

Depends where the main heat problem is (sensor or chip).
Too bad they did not include HDMI2.1 ...

 

[Quarkcharmed]

I would add the 5D4 is actual a clear example of a place where Canon didn't think much about the video.

We've recently shot a movie/clip project on 5DIV with my daughter for her media school assignment.

The resulting footage was longer than all footage I've taken over the previous 4 years since I got the 5DIV.

I'll probably take a few minutes of 8K on the R5 once I've got it just to see how it's like.

I'm not telling people don't need unlimited 8K recording time. Probably some people do.

But it feels like many people here are just trying to work around their GAS by whining about the overheating problem. It's an ideal undeniable explanation on why they're not buying the R5...

 

[reefroamer]

and more parts to break

And dust being sucked into your camera body.

 

[Jethro]

Because people are stupid.
Because people want a $10,000 camera for $3,899
Because people love to whine about things that won't actually be a problem.

Not all of it is stupidity and avarice - some people are trying to tease out the limits of what is a new, exciting and heavily promoted technology. BUT, to do so on the basis that there is some sort of fundamental 'fail' going on is unhelpful from all points of view.

The reality is that the answer to most people's questions will come in the detailed review testing that will happen when production models get into specialists' hands. That will happen soon. And as with all new technologies and features, there will be practical limits which will impact on how useful the video features will be in individual cases.

Speaking for myself, I'm much more interested in what the detailed reviews have to say about the IBIS, especially in conjunction with in-lens IS, EF / RF / 3rd party.

 

[snappy604]

Yes, and that means it looks like the thermals are basically where everyone else is right now.

The two modes it doesn't overheat are actually the same two modes I shoot in all the time for long events, etc. I'm either shooting 4K24 FF or using a mapped hotkey to switch to a S35 crop for a bit of extra reach when needed. You don't always get time for a lens swap in certain situations. I've read that it may overheat in these binned/cropped modes as well if the ambient temperature rises, but my Sony's aren't unlimited in 4K recording either. I've gotten the A7III to overheat under the sun in FF (which is oversampled from 6K) after about 90mins, but I've never gotten the A7RIII to overheat ever in any situation (since it is binned in FF and oversampled from 5K in S35 which I only sporadically use). This is why my A7III is always with the gimbal operator and I'm usually with the A7RIII covering the speeches, speakers, etc.

That being said, the new Canon R5/R6 shoot at a higher bitrate and bit-depth than all of the Sony's on the market. I think Canon played its cards right this time. If you think about it, it has achieved product segmentation from its cinema line without the need to reduce or exclude features. Both the thermals and retaining the 29:59 limit won't appear to be purposeful "crippling" so to speak. In fact, the R5 includes headlining features like 8K and RAW which nobody else has and is a big marketing win. It goes a long way in breaking the negative press cycle of Canon's "cripple hammer" approach.

When Sony releases their A7SIII which will be limited to probably 4K120, no internal RAW, but unlimited recording in all modes, casual observers will see the R5 w/ 45MP+8K+INTERNAL RAW and compare it with the A7SIII w/ 12MP+4K+ONLY 422 INTERNAL and quickly see who the "victor" is. Whether or not either camera is actually better will really depend on how you shoot. IMO, neither approach is right or wrong.

On that same note, I don't agree that us who do a lot of video work on MILCs should just "Get a cinema camera.." The form factor, size and weight are entirely different and thus the production gear to support those cameras are much larger. I can pack a mini motorized slider, 3 axis timelapse moco, dji gimbal, 2 bodies and a few primes and batteries all in a Peak design backpack. For the types of work that support this type of loadout, I will also never shoot RAW and rather have a lighter weight codec that can reduce time in post and minimize storage and archival requirements.

For pre-planned content, docs and narratives, I shoot those on my RED where I can afford the 15-20 secs it takes to boot-up, the need to blackshade at different settings and ambient temps and takes v-mounts that only run 80mins or so. The menus are also complex and laggy to the point there is an iOS app (Donna Pro) that simulates the menu for DPs and ACs to practice on. Also depending on the compression ratio, minimags can fill up exceptionally quick, but a DIT is usually backing up and cycling mags.

MILCs can do a bit of everything. It can do a bit of ENG/EFP work like a C200/C300 but with better AF and IBIS for handheld work, but doesn't have a great audio section, NDs or ergonomics like on body controls, etc. It can also do a bit pre-planned/narrative work in the realm of cine cameras with a larger sensor for better noise control and artistic DoF control, but as a result of its design limitations, are heat limited affecting shooting time because it needs to balance stills resolution. Some of this is a limit of the tech available and some of this is artificially imposed as a result of product segmentation from manufacturers.

Years ago, when the hybrid market was just getting off its feet, many of us were just discovering the equipment and workflows that suited shooting video on a MILC. But today, most of us in that market do have a clue and have found good solutions in the market (not always Canon) that fit that a video use case that isn't always "get a cinema camera". What that means is, in the past, I would need a stills body, an ENG camcorder and a cinema camera to cover 3 different types of situations. Nowadays, with compromises, A person can sometimes cover all 3 with 1 and specifically in my case, I can cover stills and ENG work with MILCs and leave shooting projects where I want RAW on a cinema camera. The real question is where you want those compromises. For myself I will mostly be going with the A7SIII only because the limitations on the R5 are an absolute deal-breaker for the type of shooting I want MILCs for and it isn't because I need a "cinema camera.." because I already have one and it isn't necessarily the best choice either.

well laid out, sounds like experience. I was one that mentioned it is a camera with excellent video, but it's not a video camera. Agree, there are areas where MILCs shine and if you take the time to learn it's strengths it will be a fine camera for video.. If it isn't for you or you're not willing to adjust there are other products dedicated to video or .. you could buy several to deal with overheating ;-) (jesting.. sort of).

 

[analoggrotto]

Has anyone seen the total trash pool that DPR has devolved into over these new cameras? It's less than a dozen people constantly slinging insults at one another repeating the same crap over and over again. I used to see this kind of stuff on automotive forums 15 years ago and would never have imagined that something as simple as an (expensive ass) camera would illicit such similar behaviour.

 

[TAF]

How about cold? How well does the R5/6 deal with -40 temperatures? Is there a temperature where the heat dissipation from the camera balances with the environmental temperature and there is no overheating?

Maybe it will be fine for polar bear videos.

 

[sdz]

I work in the arctic and have to worry about my camera freezing. Now, with the R5, I won't need to go back inside to warm my camera, all I need to do is record 8k for a little bit. It might even serve as a nice hand warmer.

Once inside, you can fry eggs and bacon on it. Canon should market it as a multi-purpose tool for the landscape photographer.

 

[cornieleous]

People focus here, we are suppose to be either praising or bashing Canon Cameras. We can all focus on RED cameras next week

Canon has red rings on their lenses so I am mad by association!

 

[SecureGSM]

If I’m angry it’s because I and others have been unrelenting attacked for doing nothing more than asking reasonable questions about overheating. It clearly is a significant issue for many of us and I think it’s reasonable to want to understand the extent of the problem. If there wasn’t a problem Canon wouldn’t be issuing guidance.

Instead our comments have repeatedly been twisted and intentionally taken out of context in an effort to force us to defend comment We haven’t made. This has not gone unnoticed by myself and has significantly diminished my interest in participating in these forums.

That’s a twisted logic. The so called “issue” or “problem” you are referring to is there by design, documented and therefore is a limitation. Not a problem. You know, there are other limitations in our lives like for example : a speed limit restrictions on our roads. Man, I would love to travel at 160km/hour on any road. (100 miles /hour ) However there is a limit. That said, I fully envisage that a cooling EF to RF adapter will be made available relatively soon. It’s is such a great idea that I have no doubt that either Canon or a third party manufacturer will put something together rather quickly.