Is Scotch tape the answer to your Canon EOS R5 overheating issues?

[masterpix]

Make up your mind.
One post you say if you want to shoot 8K, get a video camera, PERIOD.
Next post you say it ok to get a video camera to shoot 8K.

PS:

In both I said teh same: if you want video - buy a video camera, if you want stills buy stills, you can't have both ways in the same body, one way or the other you will comremize one of them. The stills can give you limited video and the video can give you limited stills. You can't complain that a video gives you lesser stills or that a stills gives you lesser video.

 

[masterpix]

You know for every time someone has called out Canon for their fishyness, there is a Canon apologist who seems to believe that everything is working as normal and intended. What you don’t realize are two things: One, apologists are the reason why Canon continues to operate the way they do, and two, the percentage of apologists has really gone down recently.
I myself was taken aback by the tabloid journalism of Andrew Reid (EOSHD) and continued belief that the overheating was part of the “cripple hammer” conspiracy. But now the tests pretty much speak for themselves, and these tests involve real people testing on the actual camera, so it’s not just “armchair quarterbacks” anymore.
My point is - there is a real issue here, when folks like Andrew can record up to 50min of 8K footage, yet the camera doesn’t let you do this natively.
If Canon had come out and admitted that there are issues and they are working on it, even that would have been a better way to handle this. But their continued silence is really allowing others to control the narrative. From a marketing standpoint, this has got to be the worst camera product launch in history - far worse than the Nikon Z6/Z7. What was Canon thinking, and why do they remain silent? If you want to continue to be an apologist, you’re not helping and Canon will just continue to push this crap and lose market share.

The R5 is first a stills camera, and it has the best AF system at present. The whole discussion about the video is irrelevant to those looking for stills camera that does more than any of the others do at this point.

 

[Baron_Karza]

In both I said teh same: if you want video - buy a video camera, if you want stills buy stills, you can't have both ways in the same body, one way or the other you will comremize one of them. The stills can give you limited video and the video can give you limited stills. You can't complain that a video gives you lesser stills or that a stills gives you lesser video.

Okey, dokey....blah hah ha....lol

 

[Greywind]

If this guy wouldn't make wild accusations about Canon's motives, we could take him more seriously. His raving, unfortunately, creates way too much noise to receive his signal.

There are some insightful and logical assumptions backed up by good experiments on FredMiranda at the moment. It seems that the overheating is not purely timer control.
But I still think there overheating mechanism is still too crude/overprotective/fishy.

 

[Greywind]

In both I said teh same: if you want video - buy a video camera, if you want stills buy stills, you can't have both ways in the same body, one way or the other you will comremize one of them. The stills can give you limited video and the video can give you limited stills. You can't complain that a video gives you lesser stills or that a stills gives you lesser video.

The world has changed, just you and some does not notice that. It's quite lucky that most of the manufacturers does not disagree with you.
There are a lot of cameras could do well both still and videos. There are a great number of proffessionals do both photos and videos.
If you don't want to use your camera for video, it's fine, totally fine. Just don't tell others to do this and that.

 

[Baron_Karza]

There are some insightful and logical assumptions backed up by good experiments on FredMiranda at the moment. It seems that the overheating is not purely timer control.
But I still think there overheating mechanism is still too crude/overprotective/fishy.

Fishy, fawh shawrrrr

 

[dcm]

If this guy wouldn't make wild accusations about Canon's motives, we could take him more seriously. His raving, unfortunately, creates way too much noise to receive his signal.

And he wonders why they won’t talk to him anymore. Worked in high tech R&D for 37 years before moving to academia. During the last 10 years I worked in R&D in the CTO office and Corporate Strategy. I’ve watched people like this similarly burn any/all of the goodwill they’ve earned with a large company. Lawyers step in and we could never talk with them again.

 

[Baron_Karza]

I'm certainly in favor of people using THEIR R5's which they bought with THEIR money to experiment. I don't think those who are doing the experimenting are the same as those who just throw fuel on the PR fire and claim Canon is cheating people, etc. I think somebody who does troubleshooting or vivisection or any kind of fiddling around with their cameras aren't malevolent idiots trying to make Canon look bad or customers feel bad.

I don't think we have seen--or ever will!-- any kind of evidence of some laughably absurd scheme to "protect" the Cine line of video cameras. I'm not getting a good impression of that EOSHD guy at all for pushing a theory that would mean Canon's successful executives are willing to destroy the companies reputation this way.

In my opinion, Canon could do themselves and concerned customers a service by addressing this issue in a press conference--or at least a statement. Personally, I think some of the reported cool-down times are shocking, and they make me want to know what is actually happening inside a nearly $4000 USD camera I plan to buy next year, and the $2500 USD R6 I am planning to buy this year. If I learn that the issue has been overly protective timers (maybe set this way for the initial release, first firmware version, just to be extra safe), I'll feel much better about the engineering and build of these bodies.

I've not seen any (or hardly any) testing on the R6 overheating cool down (besides what Canon published). I think only a little on how an external Atomos recorder helps to increase time, which I think was not as helpful as with the R5. Hopefully once they become available people will be able to report on their times.

 

[Baron_Karza]

And he wonders why they won’t talk to him anymore. Worked in high tech R&D for 37 years before moving to academia. During the last 10 years I worked in R&D in the CTO office and Corporate Strategy. I’ve watched people like this similarly burn any/all of the goodwill they’ve earned with a large company. Lawyers step in and we could never talk with them again.

I'd like to know more about the heating issues and what if anything can and will be done about it. And if Canon is handicapping the recording time due to heat and/or a timer or if it is all legit. But Andrew is being quite a cry baby, making multiple demands that are very unreasonable and quite laughable. acts like a 10 year old baby. And his little disciples can be just as bad.

 

[-pekr-]

I am not so sure you actually hate to say it, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.



I think you missed all the idiots that are suggesting Canon is trying to cheat them in some way. Stating emotional opinions as facts and repeating flat out false information. That is the point of first hand knowledge it allows for the insight of experience.

Things that have been stated as "FACT"

• The Camera never gets warm - My Camera is notably warm after shooting 4K HQ for 30mins - My reality does not line up with their "FACT"
• Canon is protecting their Cinema Line - This opinion has been tossed around forever - That was why the EOS R sucked, why the RP did not have 24p. etc etc... Opinions tossed around as facts are pointless.
• Once the Camera overheats it is useless - WOW this has been the most frustrating, when the Camera hits a thermal limit it still has a ton of options.
• The Recovery time cannot be decreased - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1658635/5#15313777 25mins in the freezer and he got all the record time back.
• The Camera can only shoot 20mins of 8K - https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/69-mins-of-8k-from-a-cooled-r5.39119/
• The temp reported in the exif is all the matters - No one know this for sure because none of use have access to the code.
• The line skipped 4K is garbage and unusable - That garbage 4k is as good as the 4K in the EOS R and bonus no crop.

Look at the BS above and tell me why you think people on a CANON forum are defending Canon and "their Camera". Everyday for the last 3 weeks there is some new way to show how Canon is trying to cheat us. Your own words can be perceived as an attack aimed at people that do not agree there is an issue...

A lot of us have been offering solutions like 4K standard 4K 1.6 Crop etc all to be told that now the only thing that is good enough is 4K HQ and 8K...



I do not think you do. If you did you would except the limitations and either say "Yeah I can live with that" or "Nope the Camera is not right for me". Supporting people tearing the Camera apart, defeating built in protections, and anything EOSHD has to say does not strike me as getting it.



That is their issue in a nutshell they/you somehow expected Canon to not be Canon. Canon has never delivered a Camera that was the best stills camera and the best cinema camera all in one package. The closest thing they have is the 1Dx line.



Sounds like Canon is going to offer some great cinema cameras with the RF mount pretty soon.



I think you missed "In my opinion"



As Gordon from Camera labs pointed out the R6 is a pretty awesome stills camera and compares well to the EOS R and RP in terms of image quality and flat out leaves them for dead in so many ways.



Knowing what you want and what you need are really empowering.



Having options is always really nice. Again I am happy that you have a clear path forward.



I think you missed "In my opinion" again.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Have a good day and good luck with your search for the Camera for you.

Ramage, all those users posting at least some findings did more work to the general public, than your scientifically accurate guess about your camera getting kind of warm in 4K HQ

I really wonder if you guys can read between the lines? I mean - the main reasoning for all that fuss? It is not the recording times. It is about how Canon propagated the camera from the get go and what they somehow forgot to tell us. If those recording times could be so precisely defined (and confirmed by testers), so should be precise the recovery cool-down times and the limits after shooting still should be covered too.

Reading from the Canon announcement re heat issues, it seems like a marketing propaganda continues:

• 8K - "productions where a full-frame mirrorless can be utilized to get unique angles alongside a main camera or additional cropping for 4K productions"
• 4K 60p - "high-frame rate high resolution productions and independent films"

Productions ... independent films .... sounds like being ready for the next Hollywood flick, right?

So - where precisely Canon tells you, that you might be zeroed out on recording times by taking few still? What can be found in manual (page 376) is this - "[red icon] may be displayed if repeated movie recording or extended use of Live Viewdisplay increases the camera’s internal temperature ".

And there is also the footer note below the table of recovery times: " If the camera is in LV mode standby before shooting or the ambient temperature is high, the shooting time may be shorter."

But yes, shorter migh mean even zero and for some luminaries here it is probably perfectly OK. LOL

 

[visionrouge.net]

His raving, unfortunately, creates way too much noise to receive his signal.

Completely agree on that.
Unfortunately, for once; he have a good point hat have been backed up by others users.

The overheat lock-down is artificial and not based on actual temperatures reading for most of the scenarios.

Just to make my point easy to understand:
There are 2 possible reasons for that:
-Avoiding this camera to compete with more expensive models.
-Doing a fast/cheap software development where you do not read temperature sensor, but just base all on time the camera is recording video.

I will remove the possibility of the absence of temperature sensors as the ( MT53D512M32D2DS-053 ) which is the 2Go Ram have internal sensors, as well as most of the component on this board. Another example is the one just on top of the card reader:
DA9213 Multiphase 20A Output Current -40 to +85 ºC temperature range and have temperature monitoring flag 125 °C Waring 140 °C Critical.

Yes, any electronic component have a temperature where it should be working fine for ages. And yes, there are real overheating situation where the camera should be turned off.
But having a logo telling you that the camera is too hot that can be turned off by removing the battery is not right.

That means the temperature is not checked at boot up, neither during the 15 following recording minutes in 8K? How this is supposed to be acceptable? How this is safe for my equipment?
Yes, this is far for being rational in an engineering point of view.

 

[dcm]

I'd like to know more about the heating issues and what if anything can and will be done about it. And if Canon is handicapping the recording time due to heat and/or a timer or if it is all legit. But Andrew is being quite a cry baby, making multiple demands that are very unreasonable and quite laughable. acts like a 10 year old baby. And his little disciples can be just as bad.

Rest assured that Canon is looking into it. We will never know the whole internal story (technical or otherwise). Any detailed explanation would be misused and abused by the same people. Canon may offer some improvement in a firmware upgrade, but only after it has been thoroughly tested. They don’t want to brick everyone’s camera or create a future failure problem from thermal issues.

They will also take what they learned in these bodies and apply it to future bodies. No design is ever perfect. You learn throughout development, but you can’t redesign everything at the last minute. They were clearly aware of thermal issues and will continue to learn more.

In all my engineering experience, we always tried to give the customer the most we could reliably provide - competition demanded it. We did design a range of products at different price points for customers to maximize our market share. There were often constraints we couldn’t overcome (like thermal), but we didn’t cripple products. I think the other engineers on this forum would agree. I doubt Canon is any different and all the nefarious stuff is ludicrous.

FWIW, my 550D/T2i overheated when I was shooting HD 1080p video of intramural softball games ten years ago. I had to learn how to use it more effectively to minimize the occurrence, like turning it off after the third out during the side change. I look forward to shooting with the R series, both photo and video.

 

[SteveC]

The world has changed, just you and some does not notice that. It's quite lucky that most of the manufacturers does not disagree with you.
There are a lot of cameras could do well both still and videos. There are a great number of proffessionals do both photos and videos.
If you don't want to use your camera for video, it's fine, totally fine. Just don't tell others to do this and that.

This one does both stills and video very well. Unless you insist that the video be in 8K, or downsampled 8K (4KHQ) or (whatever the third overheat mode is, I've forgotten).

I find it curious that people are judging this camera poorly because it's limited in modes that other cameras don't have at all; then that other camera is pointed to as an example of a camera that does video well.

The 8 K is something that so far, no other camera in this class can do at all. So to claim that some other camera can do video well even though it ALWAYS has a zero minute limit in 8K, but this one doesn't do video well because it usually has 8K limitation greater than zero, is quite inconsistent. Now I don't know enough about other brands to compare the other video modes, but so far as I know the 1080p works well, and the 4K line skipping works quite well, too, and they are not cropped (which was the last big complaint).

 

[mb66energy]

Does doing this void your warranty if the camera sustains damage due to overheating?

Maybe a lawyer will find some way ... but:
A 4500 EUR camera lacking some temperature sensors of 0,1 EUR each + 2 EUR for implementation of these is a joke in 2020 - or better: A camera lacking a good usage of the existing temperature sensors ...

Just my 8 year old 600D and EOS M have temperature sensors which are read out by Magic Lantern and the values are displayed - showing consistent behavior (duration of use, external temperatures, use of a small fan (which doesn't help too much)).

 

[wockawocka]

Rest assured that Canon is looking into it. We will never know the whole internal story (technical or otherwise).

Unless some hackers steal 10tb of internal correspondance and start releasing it.

 

[masterpix]

There are some insightful and logical assumptions backed up by good experiments on FredMiranda at the moment. It seems that the overheating is not purely timer control.
But I still think there overheating mechanism is still too crude/overprotective/fishy.

Give me the 5D mark 5! ONLY STILLS, with the R5/1DX3 eye/object tracking...

 

[jeffa4444]

Give me the 5D mark 5! ONLY STILLS, with the R5/1DX3 eye/object tracking...

Im with you all the way. Stills shooters that dont shoot video are being 'drowned" by the videographers and the relentless droning on about overheating that's reached fever pitch on Youtube.

Make an R3 that has everything the R5 has for stills and ditch the video parts all together. Hopefully that way battery life can also be extended.

 

[koenkooi]

Im with you all the way. Stills shooters that dont shoot video are being 'drowned" by the videographers and the relentless droning on about overheating that's reached fever pitch on Youtube.

Make an R3 that has everything the R5 has for stills and ditch the video parts all together. Hopefully that way battery life can also be extended.

How are you going to take pictures without an EVF? Framing rectangle in the hot shoe?

 

[Stu_bert]

because it can do it.

Because the processing power needed to do that creates heat Canon engineers figured might make the camera less reliable over time.

Personally there is no question in my mind I'll take limited functionality as a trade for reliability 100% of the time.

As for your personal 8k clips, do you have an 8k tv to view them on yet? If you do then worrying about any of this is purely for arguments sake and not a genuine concern.

Nope, I don't have a 8K TV but as I mentioned earlier, 8K gives you flexibility just like larger MP gives you flexibility, so I am sorry I do not buy into that argument that I have to have an 8K TV to record in 8K..

I'm sorry you have lost me a little on your other points. I am not hacking the camera, I am a little unhappy that I sometimes get no high bitrate video, but yes as I am predominantly a stills shooter, I will keep the R5 for that alone. I too want reliability, and above all I want stills reliability over video.

I was responding to the comment, if I want 8K buy a video device designed to record 8k for extended periods. Yes, if I was doing serious video work, that would be good advice. I'm not. I just want to be able to take the best video I can, just like I want to be able to take the best stills I can. And if those modes are not available due to heat, then yes, I have to chose lower res modes. But sure I would like to have my cake and eat it - Canon offered it. And initially with time restrictions. I am fine with them. But like anyone similar to me in requirements are finding that we need to adjust some of our ways of working to try and conserve heat. So for instance, I now regularly power the camera off, even if I am not going to use it for say 5 to 10 mins.

And no, just in case it is suggested by anyone, an Atomos is not a suitable device for me, unless I was doing serious video work.

 

[drama]

Remember when the 5D III came out, and there was light leak into the sensor from the top screen LCD illuminator? And the fix was some black tape inside the housing? Seems like first iterations of Canon's big releases always have a common-sense flaw that they have to address. For what it's worth, I am fully expecting a firmware update to address the overheating tolerance issue.