5dmk4 two months in ...

tpatana

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 1, 2012
1,224
15
Do you drive in your local area at night with your lights off because you know the road?
I'd love to have backlit buttons, when I need them.
Maybe I chose my words too harsh :) And for the driving, if I know there's nothing I can hit (for example closed area for all living) and I know the road that well, then sure.

The way I'm shooting I can't figure out why I'd need to look which buttons to press, they all just area there. But I understand there's people who don't learn the buttons for various reasons, so for them it'd help in dim situations.
 
Apr 9, 2014
145
12
www.andrew-davies.com
Agreed back lit buttons would be fantastic when needed after all we have a backlit top lcd when needed and a backlit flash when needed but i guess tpatana things they are pointless too. Why anyone wouldn't want life to be made easier is beyond me. The last wedding we did was 9 hours 5 of which were spent in the dark and some outside in the rain at a poorly lit Treehouse , had to take group shots in the dark at speed due to the weather and nowhere else to take them and fumbling around with buttons was the last thing i wanted to be doing, given the complexity of the shots and the number of parameters i needed to change on the spot the touchscreen was massively helpful. Changing and setting MF points, changing rear curtain and manual exposure settings and flash powers with the two light stands were all done a lot easier on screen.

Wedding Photographer North East & Yorkshire Northumberland & Wedding Photographer Cumbria
 

tpatana

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 1, 2012
1,224
15
? So you also say the settings are easier to do on the screen. Why you need back lit buttons then?

And I did already say above that for sure there's people/situations when they are helpful.
 
Apr 9, 2014
145
12
www.andrew-davies.com
Why not ? like i said everything that makes life easier is a good thing , there are times when backlit buttons may even be faster than the screen - hard to know as I have never had the chance to use both.

You are also trying to make out its about learning buttons, i have used a pc keyboard for 40 years but will still make the odd mistake if i try typing in the dark , in pressured time sensitive situations like weddings there is a lot going on and no matter how well you know the cameras its the little things that help to make sure you can concentrate on whats important.

When you drive your car in the dark you will note that the buttons on your dash are backlit - so you can find them easily and quickly - its no different.
 
Reactions: shunsai

tpatana

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 1, 2012
1,224
15
Why not ? like i said everything that makes life easier is a good thing , there are times when backlit buttons may even be faster than the screen - hard to know as I have never had the chance to use both.

You are also trying to make out its about learning buttons, i have used a pc keyboard for 40 years but will still make the odd mistake if i try typing in the dark , in pressured time sensitive situations like weddings there is a lot going on and no matter how well you know the cameras its the little things that help to make sure you can concentrate on whats important.

When you drive your car in the dark you will note that the buttons on your dash are backlit - so you can find them easily and quickly - its no different.
Well... can you give me example on what settings you'd change where the buttons would help? For typical shooting, you basically need:

-shutter
-back focus button (for those who use it)
-shutter (usually dial)
-aperture (usually dial)
-ISO (usually button+dial)
-AF mode (usually button+dial)
-AF point selection (usually joystick)

All those I can hit blindfolded on both of my bodies even they are different. And I'd say anyone shooting weddings should be able to do those at least without looking. Beyond those, I'd be anyway using the screen menus with either dial+joystick combo, or touch screen, so the button lights wouldn't matter.

So can you give example what buttons you might need in hectic situation and it's not one of those listed above? Like I said, I believe there's such cases but I can't think of any as I have not encountered such.

As for "why not". Added parts is one more point for failure. Tiny added cost, and having even small LED per button plus the circuitry to control them and supply power to, adds on the volume/space too. The cameras are already crowded inside.

The car example is not valid comparison either. On camera you hand is basically resting on the buttons and assuming you know the buttons, you can't really miss. On car you reach out arms-length so if you're not looking the chance of missing is high. Also, I drive Tesla so there's not one single button, only touch panel :D

Happy New Year! More shooting, less fighting :)
 
Apr 9, 2014
145
12
www.andrew-davies.com
Thanks for pointing out the basics for me lol !

Ever since your slightly silly reply to my original post you have been furiously backpedaling and attempting to win an non existent argument, you are saying your perfect and know where every button on your camera is even in the dark - well good for you, I am not pretending to be perfect and find the buttons quite close together and very easy to hit the wrong one in the dark hence the touchscreen is great.

If i had an option then i would love Canon to make a 5d aimed at my needs , forget all the video stuff and remove all that internally and its buttons free up some space between the buttons for a start , backlight the buttons especially the top and ae * lock section etc that we use for fast changing - and when i say backlight i mean dimly not bright green. Better battery life would also be great.

Oh and my hand is not always resting on my camera , I use two bodies one holstered which i frequently swap between, carry checklists of group shots, direct people and assistants and much more meaning i dont have my hand on the buttons all the time and if you did that you would just end up with a claw hand anyway.

Something of a juxtaposition too someone who drives a Tesla questioning using touch screens backlights etc ! and if your car only has one single touch screen and no buttons what on earth do you do if the touchscreen fails, get a taxi ?
 

tpatana

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 1, 2012
1,224
15
I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm really trying to ask what's a situation when the lights would help. Like what setting you're trying to access that's not within the basic buttons and still easier with buttons the the screen menu. Just simple example would make it easier to understand.
 
Apr 9, 2014
145
12
www.andrew-davies.com
Not sure what you are trying to understand , i find the buttons too close together and hard to find in the dark therefore would find a backlight useful. There are also a lot of buttons of no use to me ie video rating delete ect would be nice to be able to customize all the buttons and backlight and change the icons for them :)
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,891
1,245
Canada
Not sure what you are trying to understand , i find the buttons too close together and hard to find in the dark therefore would find a backlight useful. There are also a lot of buttons of no use to me ie video rating delete ect would be nice to be able to customize all the buttons and backlight and change the icons for them :)
I know where the important buttons are, and still can’t find them in the dark.... backlit buttons would be great, but I wonder what that would do to the longevity of the buttons and to the waterproofing. At least the 6D2 has a touchscreen, and that makes life WAY! easier in the dark.
 
Apr 9, 2014
145
12
www.andrew-davies.com
I know where the important buttons are, and still can’t find them in the dark.... backlit buttons would be great, but I wonder what that would do to the longevity of the buttons and to the waterproofing. At least the 6D2 has a touchscreen, and that makes life WAY! easier in the dark.
Not just me then ! , i think the majority of people who are being honest would say the same thing
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,891
1,245
Canada
Not just me then ! , i think the majority of people who are being honest would say the same thing
I’m frustrated to the point where a tiny headlamp has become a standard part of my camera kit. As said above, on a touchscreen device, all you have to do is find the Q button, but the other cameras need a light!
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,032
209
I’d also like backlit buttons and I too wonder it is a robustness issue. Different material I suppose would be used.
Touch screen I’m not a fan of. I like dials and buttons. Maybe it’s my Olympus experiences clouding it (very messy set up in the OMD E-10 II - would be a much better camera if it has easy controls ).
Battery life is less on the 5DIV.
I have WiFi off and GPS on. Leaving it switched on is not a good idea. I’m not sure what I’m getting maybe 3/4 of 5DIII time.
I lost my 5DIII to the sea and at first I didn’t find the 5DIV a dramatic improvement. Over time though I realise it’s very reliable, focussing is excellent especially in high pressure situations like wedding.
I know there are a few fans of the 5DSR here. It’s always my number 2 Full Frame choice. The 5DIV is always the number 1 choice.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
314
204
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Recently shot a concert with my 5DMkIV, ~2600 shots took 2 batteries exactly - the indicator was flashing red on the second battery by the end. 1 battery per 1300 shots roughly. Batteries are about 2 year old. I had GPS on.
I've got after-shoot preview disabled and I control usage of IS on the lens. IS on EF 70-200, 4ex, drains battery a lot, so need to be careful when half-pressing the shutter buton - in this case IS starts off and keeps going for a couple of secs if you release the button even without shooting. And the screen also takes a lot.

When I shoot landscapes, I use the LiveView mode 99% of time and batteries drain much faster.
 
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tpatana

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 1, 2012
1,224
15
Recently shot a concert with my 5DMkIV, ~2600 shots took 2 batteries exactly - the indicator was flashing red on the second battery by the end. 1 battery per 1300 shots roughly. Batteries are about 2 year old. I had GPS on.
I've got after-shoot preview disabled and I control usage of IS on the lens. IS on EF 70-200, 4ex, drains battery a lot, so need to be careful when half-pressing the shutter buton - in this case IS starts off and keeps going for a couple of secs if you release the button even without shooting. And the screen also takes a lot.

When I shoot landscapes, I use the LiveView mode 99% of time and batteries drain much faster.
My sports shooting I use 1DX(1) with 70-200. IS on (although not really needed I think). I'm half-pressing the shutter all the time. Typical day ~ 8 hours and 4000-5000 pics. I always carry spare battery but I don't need it. 5D4 seems to do about same with battery grip, but I have GPS off.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
314
204
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
My sports shooting I use 1DX(1) with 70-200. IS on (although not really needed I think). I'm half-pressing the shutter all the time. Typical day ~ 8 hours and 4000-5000 pics. I always carry spare battery but I don't need it. 5D4 seems to do about same with battery grip, but I have GPS off.
In order to evaluate how IS affects battery, we'd probably need to shoot with and without IS using the same camera and same lens, comparing 1DX to 5DMkIV isn't fair :) Different batteries, different electronics.
 
Reactions: AlanF

docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
837
187
Positives against the 5D3:

Image Quality / RAW - the raw files definitely have more latitude and I am able to pull more from the shadows than I ever was with the 5d3 so a definite win here.

Touch Screen - has come in handy especially in the dark and cold instead of fumbling for buttons and being able to pinch zoom in to images is a god send at times for speed sake.


Negatives against the 5D3

Battery life very poor ! I am now only getting through half wedding ie 5 hours whereas the 5d3 could get through 12 hours - have turned off wifi but still wasting batteries fast - the newer lpE6N battery does not appear to last any better than the standard batteries either

File size is much bigger now around 30-40mb per cr2 file , so you definitely need a bigger card
I migrated from the MKIII to the MKIV just over a year ago. Very fair summary. I would add that 1 fps improvement is noticeable. I would still like 8-9 fps, but 7 fps is noticeably better than 6 fps.

Next, I find the AWB to be a bit better. I know color science is subjective and malleable in post processing, but I find I like more pictures straight out of camera with the 5DIV than the 5DIII, which was no slouch in IQ. Especially for pictures of people, I often need very minimal corrections in post. Landscapes tend to need more.

Definitely more latitude when I do want to edit, and I find the touch screen nice when wanting to quickly adjust something or do something like check the battery.

File size is noticeably bigger. I fill up cards much faster (tend to use 32 GB cards) and it seems lightroom is a bit slower as well. This is a primary reason I have not migrated to something like a 5DS(r).

Battery. I am glad to hear others haven't figured it out either. I'll get somewhere between 400 and 1,200 shots on a full charge. I was doing better with 2 sec review switched off, so I do toggle that on and off depending on what I am shooting. I'll try this sleep instead of on/off. Granted, I'll want to turn off occasionally for sensor cleaning.

Overall, I do love the camera, even a bit more than the 5DIII, 10-20% improvements in a number of ways does add up.
 

docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
837
187
For whatever it is worth, two days ago, I fully charged a battery, put it in my 5DIV, turned the camera on, did not take a picture, but did focus once or twice and then turned the camera off. I just checked and the battery life was report as 92%, so 4% drain per day in "off" mode.

I just recharged the same battery and am letting the camera sleep for 2 days and I will update this post come Monday morning.
 

docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
837
187
.....and, again, for whatever it is worth, 48 hrs of my Canon 5DIV in "sleep" but turned on the battery report is 93%. Very slightly better than being turned "off" but likely not meaningful.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
573
241
Because sometimes muscle memory just isn't there. Don't know why any of this is hard to understand. Silly. Why back-lit buttons? Because! ;) Pro-tip: Not all have the same preferences. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want back-lit buttons. So what? :rolleyes: Snotty remark.
Why I don't want back-lit buttons: because I don't take my eye away from the viewfinder when using the buttons on my camera. Why should I want to pay more for something that a) drains the batteries faster and b) that I wouldn't use?