An article Canon should read.

HughHowey

EOS 80D
Mar 29, 2011
102
0
44
Boone, NC
www.hughhowey.com
Excellent article explaining why large companies are often "disrupted," why Apple hasn't succumbed to this, and why Canon SHOULD try to cannibalize its own products by innovating new ones. Anyone with Canon gear should read this. Very eye-opening.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/29/jobs-made-apple-great-by-ignoring-profit/
 

EYEONE

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 5, 2011
612
0
"When the pressure is on and the CEO of a big public company has to choose between doing what’s best for the customer or making the quarter’s numbers… most CEOs will choose the numbers.

Apple never has."

Haha, yeah right.


I agree that Apple is a terrifically run company. But let's not pretend that their practice transcends the rules and norms of business. I really hate Apple worship.
 
G

gene_can_sing

Guest
I'll start this by saying I am not an Apple fan boy. Been using Mac's since the mid 90s, and lately they've been too consumer driven (bad quicktime X, bring back matte monitors for real work, strange mice, Final Cut X disaster). But still, the good out weights the bad.

One thing that is NOT debatable, is that Canon has far, far LESS vision than Apple. Canon is so conservative and only really cares about the numbers. They won't even fix simple, 4 year old problems with their DSLR video.

Canon will never be an Apple which is sad, because that mean we will never have cameras that could reach their full potential since there are so few camera companies. Instead, we are stuck with incremental upgrades from Canon or Nikon.

Sony with their latest releases, seem to have a bit of spark and some desire (but nowhere near what Apple probably would do); but at least maybe it will trigger some forward progress in the camera industry. I mean 4 year + product cycles? That's so horrible. In any other tech industry, Canon would be completely destroyed with that. Dead. Fortunately for them, their only really competitor in Nikon who equally lags, and probably Sony is the near future who is making moves.

Whether you love or hate Apple, one thing is for sure, they pretty much kick the crap out of the competition by offering innovative products that are well designed, sexy and forward looking; something Canon can't say. They can't even come out with Digic V after 4 long years for God's sake. Pathetic.

If in the future, Nikon or Sony even had 1/2 the vision of Apple (which I doubt they ever will), Canon in all their conservatism would fall like a house of cards, just like what Apple has done to their numerous competitors.
 

dstppy

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 26, 2011
981
0
Connecticut . . . ish.
EYEONE said:
I agree that Apple is a terrifically run company. But let's not pretend that their practice transcends the rules and norms of business. I really hate Apple worship.
Apple was the ONLY company to release a price-beating/spec beating competitor to the iPad at the time that it was #1. That didn't take courage, it took true understanding of it's market.

Securing deals for supplies, and in some extreme cases putting down cash in advance for components was another business savvy move.

Hate whatever you want, but the people worshiping Apple these days are less fanboys and more investors.

::)

All that said, different markets, different strategies for Canon/Apple. Some people on this forum would prefer that Canon chase Sony & Nikon . . . that's not going to get/keep them ahead . . .
 

EYEONE

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 5, 2011
612
0
dstppy said:
EYEONE said:
I agree that Apple is a terrifically run company. But let's not pretend that their practice transcends the rules and norms of business. I really hate Apple worship.
Apple was the ONLY company to release a price-beating/spec beating competitor to the iPad at the time that it was #1. That didn't take courage, it took true understanding of it's market.

Securing deals for supplies, and in some extreme cases putting down cash in advance for components was another business savvy move.

Hate whatever you want, but the people worshiping Apple these days are less fanboys and more investors.

::)

All that said, different markets, different strategies for Canon/Apple. Some people on this forum would prefer that Canon chase Sony & Nikon . . . that's not going to get/keep them ahead . . .
Yeah, ya know what? Forget I said anything at all. I hate the Apple debate and I simply don't care.
 

Haydn1971

UK based, hobbyist
Nov 7, 2010
594
1
48
Sheffield, UK
www.flickr.com
One wonders how the 1D/5D/7D ranges would develop given a one year product cycle like the Apple products ?

Evolutionary rather than revolutionary ? But would the first version have to be revolutionary like the Apple product ? Maybe we need Apple to enter the market and upset a the establishment, (rediscovered) innovation like 5" rear touch screens, built in wifi/3G, HDR, smart tagging, crop sensors that emulate full frame.... However, we might end up with factory sealed storage and batteries !
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,357
970
I love my Imac, but to call the Iphone 3g, and 3gs and 4 and Ipad2 innovative is just crazy talk. What they know is marketing. Make people sell their kidney (ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN) to get the Iphone because it's now available in white???

It's just minor subtle changes, and with the Iphone 4 making people believe that videocall is something revultionary?? LOL, I had that on my 7 year old Ericsson cheap-ass phone.

Apple knows their computers, purley stated by me as my personal opinion, and not to start a debate with windows or Linux users. I'm just sayin'. I always used a pc, and nearly got so upset with it not working when I wanted to , that I had a heartattack every single day. But Apple isn't that innovative. They make people want to buy their products even if it lacks very much of the basic functions that others have had for a long time.

And I read a "yeah right" comment above here for Apple caring more about customers then numbers... Cooooome ooon!!!! NO, they don't, they care about money first, second and a long way down that list comes customers. What people need to learn from Apple is marketing and how to sell products.

With photo, I would hardly say Canon is doing something wrong. Yes, we have waited a long time for a new 1ds4 and a 5d3, but we know they're coming, and now we want them, right? If they came out every year, there wouldn't be much to upgrade from. And no one would be so excited about a new release.

Consider this; For us who owned a early mkIII and bought the mk4 when it first released, MINOR updates wasn't exactly what we thought when first using it, and it became more and more apperant what an astonishing upgrade it is!! 60% increase in resolution and the same noise levels (but better looking) at 12800 as the mk3 had at 3200 is pretty insane, except the faulty AF of the early mkIII's it wasn't exactly a useless camera.

Go out and use your camera instead of bitching about things you can't control, I mean , really!
 

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,286
1,913
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I agree that Apple is a terrifically run company. But let's not pretend that their practice transcends the rules and norms of business. I really hate Apple worship.
+1

Let's see...if Canon were more like Apple we would have a proprietary file format for all images that would allow us to view, print and manipulate those images using only Canon hardware and software.

Canon would create a lens mount that would only function with Canon lenses, so that no third-party lenses could be used on its cameras.

Canon would abandon all but the low and highest-end markets, creating only mass consumer products and specialized products for a very narrow segment of the professional class.

If it continued to offer any mid-range products (Such as DSLRs) it would charge significantly more than Nikon or other competitors for products that have poorer specs.

It would constantly change the form factor and design of its cameras, so that every year the previous year's models would be obsolete.

It would find a way to charge consumers for each image and lock up the marketplace so that consumers could not freely exchange their own images.

If other companies (Adobe) developed industry-dominant applications, Canon would hobble their cameras so that the applications would not run on their cameras.

It would abandon full-frame and probably APS-C sensors and instead compress images into a more narrow dynamic range, figuring that eventually everyone would get so used to seeing the compressed images that they would forget what it is like to see an image with a full range of tones and colors.

Eyeone, I share your pain. I too, tire of the Apple worship.

When it comes to pictures, I'll take stodgy, conservative Canon any day.
 
Z

-zero-

Guest
@unfocused

you forgot to add that the only way to get the pictures out of your camera is by syncing it with itunes and only on 1 computer ;)
 

waving_odd

EOS 80D
Aug 3, 2011
152
0
HughHowey said:
The iPod was the first indication that they were, in fact, thinking different. Here was a personal computer company, used to selling $2,000 computers, willing to take a risk on a gadget that would sell for a fraction of that price. Most big companies would not invest the time and energy to develop a device that was not nearly as profitable as their existing products, in a market that did not even exist yet.
Hey folks, just some random thoughts: what if Jobs comes back in the future and wants to challenge the camera industry like what they did with iPhone on mobile phone industry?! They might make iCamera that is not necessarily a DSLR, RF nor MF... The iCamera simply revolutionizes the imaging industry and freaks the hell out of Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Hasselblad, Phase 1, etc... Apple again does it from the scratch and it beats all these industry leaders to death...

Imagine...
 
R

rocketdesigner

Guest
[/quote]

Hey folks, just some random thoughts: what if Jobs comes back in the future

[/quote]

Don't hold your breath. Pancreatic cancer is virtually a death sentence. He has been fighting it for awhile and I would venture to say that he would not have totally stepped down unless there is little hope for survival.
 
P

PXL_Pusher

Guest
You know, I'd say any other kind of worship done outside of any religious means is probably over the line.
I normally stay out of the whole "Apple fanboy / hateboy" debate. It's irrelavant that people become obsessed with a tool, or to the contrary, become obsessed with hating it and bashing it as if it has no merit.

I've been an art director for 3 years. The projects I work on include package design, billboards, catalogs... web design/development, photography and 3D modeling... oh don't forget motion graphics.... they all require a fast, dynamic and most importantly STABLE environment or aka Operating system.

I used PC's for a long time... in fact my whole life, until I began using adobe CS 2,3,4,5 master collections and maxing out consumer PC's like it was going out of style. Then it quickly became evident why most, not all, creative professionals use apple products. Not iMacs, although it is possible, but I'm talking about a professional workstation such as a mac pro 8 core with 8g or + ram, and serious storage and a nice graphics card. No... it's not cheap, it's expensive. That's why it's a professional workstation, like a 1D is a professional DSLR. I have the computer described here, and it's been going strong for 4 years without A SINGLE issue. I've upgraded hard drives, ram, and 2 operating systems. Did I mention I run Autodesk 3Ds Max in windows xp through a simple hard drive partition? all from the same OS?

Anyway, I'm not going to write an essay, although I got pretty close already. I just have to point out that computers have to be a fit for the end user, and as a professional designer / art director... there is no PC on the market that will hold up for me as steady and as long as an apple, (running creative software), without serious maintenance, defragmenting, and of course.... virus software. But I am sure there are people that can say they opposite from their experience... and I would never try to argue personal experience over opinion. Thats just my 2Cents. I also hate fanboys, And the people who are quick to hate on the "fanboys"...

It's like people complaining about politics... when they aren't registered to vote....
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,642
830
Apple has stuck with their 65% profit margin.

If Canon did that, prices would double. Apple responds to competition by filing lawsuits making all sorts of outrageous claims and tying up the competitor in court for years before Apple finally loses the court battle, but wins by keeping competition away.
 
G

Gothmoth

Guest
dstppy said:
EYEONE said:
I agree that Apple is a terrifically run company. But let's not pretend that their practice transcends the rules and norms of business. I really hate Apple worship.
Apple was the ONLY company to release a price-beating/spec beating competitor to the iPad at the time that it was #1. That didn't take courage, it took true understanding of it's market.

Securing deals for supplies, and in some extreme cases putting down cash in advance for components was another business savvy move.

Hate whatever you want, but the people worshiping Apple these days are less fanboys and more investors.
my professor used to say "apple knows how to play the idiots".

itunes, drm, a closed shop system, etc. etc.

no way that microsoft could have done the same without an uproar from the user.

hell in europe they even tried (and succeeded in part) to forced microsoft to remove email, AV and the internet explorer from the OS. all because of market regulations. no way Microsoft could have done such an closed APP store or cripple their software the way apple uses too.

if canon would act the apple way.. you would have to use canon SD cards and send all your pictures to canon for approval!
NO NUDE PICTURES FROM CANON CAMS!

apple is babysitting and parenting it´s users.

and for the money of an apple system i rather buy an BOXX workstation.
i am a 3d max user too. no way i would run 3d max on XP (even XP 64 bit) it runs way better on win7 64 bit and it´s real a memory hog. even my 24 GB ram are maxed out quite often.
 

DJL329

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2010
575
25
"Jobs made Apple great by ignoring profits"

What a load of tripe. If they're ignoring profits, then why do they use what amounts to slave labor in China? (The conditions at one factory were so bad, they had to put up nets to put an end to worker suicides at the building where they were "warehoused.") And why do they charge such a premium over other manufacturers?

No disruptions, huh? Well, here are a couple of recent examples (didn't have to look to hard to find some):

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-18/apple-has-trouble-getting-enough-iphone-4-displays-rodman-renshaw-says.html

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2010/03/04/apple-ipad-will-production-hiccups-delay-launch/

------------------------------

Jobs was finally successful (Lisa, Newton and NeXT to name a few of his failures), because the iPod became a "fashion" item. If you wanted to 'keep up with the Joneses,' you had to have one. By keeping inventory low at product launch (to create a "feeding frenzy") and by charging a premium (to make it a "must-have" item), his success is ultimately attributable to P.T. Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute."
 

gmrza

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 21, 2011
521
1
gene_can_sing said:
....

If in the future, Nikon or Sony even had 1/2 the vision of Apple (which I doubt they ever will), Canon in all their conservatism would fall like a house of cards, just like what Apple has done to their numerous competitors.
Time to play devil's advocate...

  • With the AE-1 Canon led the charge to mass-market adoption of SLRs. Supposedly the AE-1 was the first camera with an embedded microcontroller.
  • Canon introduced the world's first inkjet printer.
  • Didn't Canon lead the market to the adoption of a full electronic lens interface? (EOS 650 and EF lens mount in 1987)
  • Canon led the market for full frame studio professional DSLRs with the 1Ds. (It wasn't the first full frame pro DSLR, but it was a major departure in terms of utility.)
  • Wasn't Canon the first company to market an enthusiast-level full frame DSLR? (5D Classic)
  • Wasn't Canon the first to release HD video in a full frame DSLR? (5D mkII)
  • Wasn't Canon the first major camera manufacturer to launch a 70-200mm image stabilised lens?

Canon has made some daring bets -
  • abandoning the FD lens mount and unseating Nikon as the undisputed leader in the pro SLR segment in the process.
  • Cannibalising the market for the 1DsIII with the introduction of the 5DII
I'm sure I have missed a few.

Canon may be managed conservatively, but I don't think we can accuse Canon of not having vision.

Canon has made some innovations which have fallen flat - like the use of a pellicle mirror, or eye-controlled auto-focus. But Canon has also led some ground-breaking market changes - the AE-1, EOS 650, EOS 300D and EOS 350D immediately come to mind.

I will grant that Canon have not introduced any tectonic shifts in the market place lately, so time will tell whether they might lose the edge on innovation.
As for Canon and Nikon being non-entrants or late entrants (Nikon) into the CSC market - I would contend that that is a market which has not proven itself to have given customers a great product yet. Nikon seems to be entering that market reluctantly - Canon may too. Time will tell whether either of them can introduce the "iPad" of that market - to tell the truth, most products in that market at the moment are the equivalent of the Apple Newton.


... Time to don the flame-retardant suit... ;)
 

DJL329

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2010
575
25
gmrza said:
gene_can_sing said:
....

If in the future, Nikon or Sony even had 1/2 the vision of Apple (which I doubt they ever will), Canon in all their conservatism would fall like a house of cards, just like what Apple has done to their numerous competitors.
Time to play devil's advocate...

  • With the AE-1 Canon led the charge to mass-market adoption of SLRs. Supposedly the AE-1 was the first camera with an embedded microcontroller.
  • Canon introduced the world's first inkjet printer.
  • Didn't Canon lead the market to the adoption of a full electronic lens interface? (EOS 650 and EF lens mount in 1987)
  • Canon led the market for full frame studio professional DSLRs with the 1Ds. (It wasn't the first full frame pro DSLR, but it was a major departure in terms of utility.)
  • Wasn't Canon the first company to market an enthusiast-level full frame DSLR? (5D Classic)
  • Wasn't Canon the first to release HD video in a full frame DSLR? (5D mkII)
  • Wasn't Canon the first major camera manufacturer to launch a 70-200mm image stabilised lens?

Canon has made some daring bets -
  • abandoning the FD lens mount and unseating Nikon as the undisputed leader in the pro SLR segment in the process.
  • Cannibalising the market for the 1DsIII with the introduction of the 5DII
I'm sure I have missed a few.

Canon may be managed conservatively, but I don't think we can accuse Canon of not having vision.

Canon has made some innovations which have fallen flat - like the use of a pellicle mirror, or eye-controlled auto-focus. But Canon has also led some ground-breaking market changes - the AE-1, EOS 650, EOS 300D and EOS 350D immediately come to mind.

I will grant that Canon have not introduced any tectonic shifts in the market place lately, so time will tell whether they might lose the edge on innovation.
As for Canon and Nikon being non-entrants or late entrants (Nikon) into the CSC market - I would contend that that is a market which has not proven itself to have given customers a great product yet. Nikon seems to be entering that market reluctantly - Canon may too. Time will tell whether either of them can introduce the "iPad" of that market - to tell the truth, most products in that market at the moment are the equivalent of the Apple Newton.


... Time to don the flame-retardant suit... ;)
Excellent retort, sir! (No flames here! ;D) Besides, it's not as if Canon hasn't been the industry leader for the past two decades.
 

Hillsilly

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 16, 2010
1,097
0
Apple has combined great products with excellent marketing and now have a very loyal customer base. As a company, it has done exceptionally well over the last 15 years. But to ascribe this success to altruistic notions means you've just been suckered in by their marketing. Apple is a profit making beast, just like every other large company. Its just that Apple is a "cooler" brand than most of its competitors.

An interesting article about Apple that has been popular is Australia for the last few days...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/apple-cult-really-makes-me-shudder/story-e6frg6ux-1226123118856

The other thing is that it generally doesn't matter who is first to market with something. What matters is how well you implement it. I think it is generally accepted that Apple products aren't entirely new inventions. But they've hade some top people who have figured out how to make things work better. If there is a lesson to learn from Apple it is that you can't ignore new advances, better ideas for usability and ergonomics, better menu layouts and integrating new technologies.
 
D

Dave

Guest
If canon would be like apple...
...there would be just ONE dslr and ONE compact model with a new release every year
...it would cost twice as much as every other cam
...there would be no USB connector. the only way to get your photos from your cam is to use a proprietary software - from canon
...there wouldn't be any memory cards either. You'd have to decide if you want to buy a 8, 16 or 32 version of your SLR
...to use your camera you have to activate it first via that particular software
...the batteries would be build in with no way to change it yourself
...there wouldn't be any manual mode anymore because the mass market don't need that
...canon would sue, nikon, sony, panasonic and every other manufacturer who build cams who look like... well, who look like a cam, because canon thinks that it has invented cams
...canon would buy Adobe (for example) would sell the Creative Suite for just to decide that some functions like auto tone are note needed anymore and have to be kicked out to fit the mass market...
 
Z

-zero-

Guest
Dave said:
If canon would be like apple...
...there would be just ONE dslr and ONE compact model with a new release every year
...it would cost twice as much as every other cam
...there would be no USB connector. the only way to get your photos from your cam is to use a proprietary software - from canon
...there wouldn't be any memory cards either. You'd have to decide if you want to buy a 8, 16 or 32 version of your SLR
...to use your camera you have to activate it first via that particular software
...the batteries would be build in with no way to change it yourself
...there wouldn't be any manual mode anymore because the mass market don't need that
...canon would sue, nikon, sony, panasonic and every other manufacturer who build cams who look like... well, who look like a cam, because canon thinks that it has invented cams
...canon would buy Adobe (for example) would sell the Creative Suite for just to decide that some functions like auto tone are note needed anymore and have to be kicked out to fit the mass market...
I want to stay away from the Apple love/hate argument but,

why does that sound absolutely unacceptable on a camera but most people accept it for their smartphone?