Canon Inc. releases Q1 2019 financial results

espressino

sigh.
Feb 26, 2018
29
9
My problem with Canon is they sit around and act like market contraction is an unavoidable consequence of cell phone use... Why don't they DO something to compete better with cell phones??? Why don't they make the cameras capable of posting to instagram? Is it really so far fetched? I mean, if they came up with something that let people do what they want to do, which is share pictures on the fly, then the only advantage a cell phone has would be the portability.
Until last year it was possible to post straight to facebook from wifi-enabled cameras such as the M100, 77D, G7XII but then facebook removed the api so that's no longer possible. But back then I often wondered why it wasn't possible to do the same on instagram.

Canon's wifi implementation in its cameras is still a tad better than fuji's but almost each of their entry- to mid-level camera has a different implementation of how you connect and images are shared. It's infuriating because it's unnecessarily complicated. Moreover: why can't their entry-level cameras which are aimed at smartpone shooters connect with their Zoemini printers? It's just a tiny detail but unlike the lenses, which are an amazing, coherent system, these ancillary capabilities don't seem very well-thought out. (Don't get me started on the fact that the Powershot G7 X ii had support for wifi connections on MacOS 10.11, then it stopped working with 10.12 and Canon has never bothered to update the software.)
 

espressino

sigh.
Feb 26, 2018
29
9
Meanwhile Canon's often-ridiculed EOS M line has definitely helped them noticeably - especially for units sold. ALso deservedly so, since EOS M - especially with M50 and today's lens lineup, now, many years after its start - offers precisely what vast majority of crop-system users are looking for:
  1. best price/value, a.k.a. "most bang for limited bucks" - compared to FF gear and to competition (Sony, Fuji - haha)
  2. less bulk
  3. decent enough IQ
  4. good functionality and usability
Had Canon migrated their entire lower-mid range APS-C ILC offering from DSLRs [xxxxD, xxxD, xxD including 80D] to [better] EOS M and [somewhat stronger] EF-M lineup already earlier [e.g. instead of M2, M3], they'd be in better shape today. But, they chose to hold back M and push umpteen iterations of slightly and artificially marketing-differentiated "rebel kisses" and xxD DSLRs.

And had Canon launched their EOS RP at the time of and instead of the 6D MK. II and a sensibly-priced EOS R with sensor and performance like a 5D Mk. V along with a set of affordable and smallish RF lenses (e.g. 24-70/f/4 IS, plus a few f/1.8-2.0 primes] they would be in even better shape today.

But - apparently their multi-million market research was not as SMART as some simple COMMON SENSE. :)
I agree with half your point: the bang-for-buck APS-C argument works very strongly in Canon's favour. But I wonder if the APS-C DLSR and EF-S lens segment wouldn't be doing better if they had actually released new models in the last 20+ months (with the ensuing buzz). Like it or not but people like having a 'new' camera model; I guess they've been taught that by smartphones. The 2000/3000/4000D are cameras that actually damage the brand IMHO, especially when compared to the M100, which has often been on sale as a kit for 250-300€ in Germany, which is an amazing bang-for-buck-for-image-quality-for-touchscreenfeatures-millennials-care-about ratio.
 
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espressino

sigh.
Feb 26, 2018
29
9
Canon death is exaggerated. As is the death of photography to cell phones. Serious photographers will always want the best images they can get regardless of how they are shown, stored or commercially used.
I took some shots with an iPhone X at my last portrait shoot using continuous lights instead of strobes and my trusty 5DS at its 100 ISO setting using a EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM and a EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM II. Its not until you pull shots into Lightroom or Photoshop and then start working on them you realise just how limited an iPhone X file is. They are fine straight off of the cell phone and loaded to Facebook or Instagram but take a file through the same process as a 5DS file in Lightroom and then Photoshop and things fall apart quickly. Compositionally your compromised whilst shooting with the device and whilst they don't do a half bad job in colour balance you dont get the flexibility from a 5DS raw file.

Same is true for landscape or in my opinion any other form of photography. The advantages are always having a camera and instant upload to social media but in every other respect they are not a replacement for DSLRs or mirrorless full frame cameras.
Exactly. And it is one of my pet peeves that people on this forum often keep jumping from one extreme to another: if you don't half a full-frame camera then you might as well just use a phone. There's plenty of space in-between.
Smartphones are expensive and get obsolete a lot more quickly: people tire of that eventually. It's all anecdotal evidence but several of my friends who were never interested in photography, and don't know anything about the technical aspects of it, now look back at their smartphone photos from two years ago vs. those taken with their current aps-c camera and are astounded how crappy the former look in hindsight. And taken with a camera that came at a fraction of the price of a smartphone. (Unlucky for Canon, of course, they're going to hold on to that camera for a few more years, but phones are only ever improving incrementally as well, which is why apple too is looking for other ways to generate revenue). All I'm trying to say is that I think the industry appears right now way to resigned to this feeling of doom and gloom. Throw some aggressive marketing $$s at people and see what sticks. I'm convinced that there's a vast untapped potential of customers who just don't realise that cameras are so much better at taking photos, and that they want to do that too but just don't know it yet.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,554
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Had Canon migrated their entire lower-mid range APS-C ILC offering from DSLRs [xxxxD, xxxD, xxD including 80D] to [better] EOS M and [somewhat stronger] EF-M lineup already earlier [e.g. instead of M2, M3], they'd be in better shape today.
But - apparently their multi-million market research was not as SMART as some simple COMMON SENSE. :)
Really? You know this for a fact?? How would that have worked, exactly? Because the fact is that DSLRs remain more popular than MILCs. And since you mentioned the 80D, the year that camera was launched DSLRs were 73% of the ILC market. But you claim that Canon should have dropped 3/4 of the market in favor of the much smaller segment.

Evidently simple COMMON SENSE is not very common, particularly in your post.
 
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xeppelin

I'm New Here
Apr 22, 2019
20
9
Because the fact is that DSLRs remain more popular than MILCs.
Well, let's see for how much longer this is going to "remain". To me it looks like a massive landslide is under way.
http://cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201903_e.pdf
One category is above 100%, all others are (far) below. Check out the facts and numbers and draw a trendline.


In Canon's own words:
  • "...accelerated market contraction for DSLRs, in particular entry-level models..."
  • "...we grew our unit sales of mirrorless cameras at a pace far exceeding the overall market..."
  • "...the level of camera inventory was high due to a slowdown in sales of mainly DSLRs.
Sounds to me, like they stayed in DSLRs for too long and are now sitting on piles of unsold "rebel kisses". SMART Canon. :D
 
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unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,878
1,143
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Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Well, let's see for how much longer this is going to "remain". To me it looks like a massive landslide is under way.
http://cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201903_e.pdf
One category is above 100%, all others are (far) below. Check out the facts and numbers and draw a trendline.


In Canon's own words:
  • "...accelerated market contraction for DSLRs, in particular entry-level models..."
  • "...we grew our unit sales of mirrorless cameras at a pace far exceeding the overall market..."
  • "...the level of camera inventory was high due to a slowdown in sales of mainly DSLRs.
Sounds to me, like they stayed in DSLRs for too long and are now sitting on piles of unsold "rebel kisses". SMART Canon. :D
Interesting. It does appear the worldwide shipments of mirrorless eclipsed slrs in the first three months of this year. That's a first as near as I can tell.
With Canon controlling 50% of the overall interchangeable lens camera market, one could assume that a large portion of that growth this year has come from Canon sales.

SMART Canon.
 

xeppelin

I'm New Here
Apr 22, 2019
20
9
Interesting. It does appear the worldwide shipments of mirrorless eclipsed slrs in the first three months of this year. That's a first as near as I can tell.
in value (yen) yes. 55.7 vs. 45.6 bn ¥

in units DSLRs are still in lead: 972 vs 755 k but gap is rapidly closing.

in yen value, MILCs took the lead already back in september 2018
and every month since then.

ofc those stats would be even more interesting and telling, if FF and "crop" sensor numbers were shown separately. not to mention a breakdown by CIPA member = by company. :)
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
734
84
Yeah, I’ll see your biased overinterpretation and raise you an opposite biased interpretation.

We apologize to the DSLR buyers who comprise the majority of our customers for releasing two FF MILCs, three RF lenses and announcing a bunch more. We’ll get back to launching DSLRs and EF lenses soon.

:p
At least you admit bias :)

And that’s not a denial of playing catch up
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,554
1,990
Interesting. It does appear the worldwide shipments of mirrorless eclipsed slrs in the first three months of this year. That's a first as near as I can tell.
With Canon controlling 50% of the overall interchangeable lens camera market, one could assume that a large portion of that growth this year has come from Canon sales.

SMART Canon.
Majority of ILCs sold remain DSLRs. The ILC market is changing...Canon is maintaining their market dominance. They’re not ‘late’ to mirrorless, they’re right on time. SMART Canon.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,728
1,297
Irving, Texas
nope. It was plain to see even years ago for anybody with common sense. All of the options I posted above would have been fully possible for Canon. Technically and financially. No major issues at all. Sony had already demonstrated well before, how to do it.
It is far easier to look back and call plays after the fact than to actually be a contributor to the team. Especially when one hasn't got any skin in the game.
 
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mover

I'm New Here
Apr 15, 2018
9
3
I love all these statements on how SMART Canon is. I ask, compared to what? Compared to the rest of these camera companies. Ok maybe, but does that make them SMART? You could have three stooges and have one smarter than the others but does that make the one smart? I will admit I am happy we have rocket scientists, programmers and people who make great things for us but there are other kind of SMART people with COMMON SENSE who know how to make things easier and less complicated or better that get overridden by these IDIOT SAVANTS and the rest of us just shake our heads and say WTF were they thinking as we suffer and just have to laugh about it. Oh well, what do I know? I just move all the crap people buy. :)
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
434
246
Frankfurt, Germany
Only Canon knows how many units they need to sell be keep a line profitable, but I suspect it is fewer than most people here think. APS-C and full frame DSLRs, Mirrorless APS-C and Full Frame -- four formats -- it's entirely possible Canon will keep all four going while they strive for 80-90% of the market.
That's true. I think it is a bit like in the automobile industry: they use unified platforms as a base for different models. Regarding Canon one visible element is sensors: they use one type of sensor in different cameras in the APS-C and the FF segment. In the FF segment they currently have a greater variety of different sensors, but since those cameras are more expensive, it works economically. Same with the Digic processors etc.
 

xeppelin

I'm New Here
Apr 22, 2019
20
9
looking at Canon Q1 financials, an educated guess about how many cameras Canon needs to sell to still make a profit in "cameras" category would be possible. unfortunately published dara is not detailed enough to break it down further.

not going to invest 5 minutes into the exercise though. iwill just wait for Q2 results and CIPA numbers. And Nikon financials, really curious to see those. :)
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,078
256
Canon were late into the MILC market. They may have been in a more dominant position if they had moved in earlier. Sony certainly got a chance to get up an running.
I think they were caught out by their popularity (as from a photographic perspective they only bring marginal advantages (smaller size (not a big advantage given the size of the top end glass) and silent shutter). Being later into the market meant they have to go through the mistakes of earlier models or invent something completely new. They had most of the technology already and knew they were excellent lens makers. For the Canon lens designers it probably really rejuvenated their work as DSLR lens improvements had become incremental. They had a ready made bunch of loyal customers who are looking for something a little different or a little more like what Sony can offer.
It will be interesting where Canon go from here. I've no doubt on the lens they will continue to excel. It would be more the sensors which Canon might struggle in house to improve upon. They are taking their time with the professional mirrorless cameras. This is maybe because they want to make a great leap forward or they are having difficulty producing something worthy of a Canon professional mirrorless camera.
 

martti

EOS 7D MK II
May 11, 2014
692
11
21.1144° S, 55.5325° E
Nobody from Canon has as yet called me for my advice.
The last time I looked in their business figures, they were beating the market.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that this would change.
They have markets in their sights for products we have no idea about.
Nikon will capsize first.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,554
1,990
Canon entered the mirrorless market in 2012.
And today they lead that market segment, along with the DLSR segment and of course the overall ILC market. But still, some people petulantly refuse to let facts influence their opinions.