Cue the head spinning, The Canon EOS-1D X Mark III to be 20.1mp? [CR1]

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
321
240
Hamburg, Germany
Whether cameras or data centers, processing capacity and storage are ALWAYS an ongoing issue.
Sure enough. The comment that sparked your remark didn't ask for anything all that unreasonable though. Using a sensor around 30 MP in the 1DX III would seem very realistic to me.

The EOS M6 II handles 14 FPS at 32.5 MP with full autofocus, despite being limited by a tiny form factor (bad for heat dissipation), a low capacity battery and a price tag that's only a fraction of what the 1DX III is expected to cost.

We're only talking about a 32% increase in required throughput, going from 32.5 MP 14 FPS to 30 MP 20 FPS. If Canon would want to do it, I sure hope they could.

If the X III will have a 20 or 24 MP sensor, I'm inclined to believe it's because the market required it, not because the technology didn't allow it. I simply find it hard to believe that Canon went all out with what they can do in terms of throughput with the M6 II and won't go above that, even with their newer flagship bodies.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
What if Canon does something with the 1DX line that they did with the 5DS and 5DSr several years ago. Introduce 2 different DX III models, one with the old 20.2 (or refreshed 20.2) mp sensor to maintain file sizes for a certain pro-segment and a 24.2, or even 26mp, brand new sensor for all other pro (and other) segments?

Wouldn't that shock everyone?

1 DXs III or 1 DX IIIs?
1 DX III
Can someone just remind me what the practical difference is between a 20 mp sensor and a 24 ?
 

Keith_Reeder

No apologies for not suffering fools gladly...
Feb 8, 2014
823
262
59
Blyth, NE England
Ultimately i think the cameras low light performance and IQ is more important than mega pix count for the 1dx iii.
The two are entirely unrelated: regardless how many pixels Canon put into the Mk III's sensor (I'll bet 30+), I guarantee that its high ISO performance will be better than that of the Mk II.

Just as the Mk II improved on the Mk I.

And the 7D Mk II improved on the 7D.

And the 5D Mk III improved on the Mk II.

And so on...
 

slclick

PINHOLE
Dec 17, 2013
3,156
683
Why? It's an arbitrary amount with no intrinsic "value" whatsoever.
Is that only an intrinsic value if it applies to video measurements? It seems as if stills sensors are much simpler to wrap your head around resolution wise with far fewer factors at play. This particular body being most likely a 90%+ stills camera....why must so many believe the MP count will revolve around video rez?
 

venusFivePhotoStudio

I'm New Here
Aug 4, 2018
22
20
I've been a fanatic Canon user for a long time! I am using a 1DXMK2 now.
If the Canon sensor doesn't make a difference, I will definitely move to another brand (Leica SL2)
I hope that canon does not disappoint us.
You are right, the 1Dx mk III and even more the 5D mark V must be wonderful, otherwise canon is doomed :)
He really is I'm not joking.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,905
1,046
119
Can someone just remind me what the practical difference is between a 20 mp sensor and a 24 ?
I’d see no real point in a 20 or 24 mp options, if they were to split the line, which they merged just two generations ago, it would need to be for a sizable difference that really impacted fps and data transfer speeds. I’d think something like 24mp and the rumored 80mp. But I really don’t think anything like that would happen, especially because I’d really like it to!

As for the difference between 20 and 24 as options, practically none, as a difference between a single model I’d say the real ‘problem’ with 20 is the inability to crop/straighten as much and still retain a decent ppi for printing, 24 gives a decent bit more leeway for issues like that than 20.
 

Danglin52

EOS T7i
Aug 8, 2018
73
56
Sure enough. The comment that sparked your remark didn't ask for anything all that unreasonable though. Using a sensor around 30 MP in the 1DX III would seem very realistic to me.

The EOS M6 II handles 14 FPS at 32.5 MP with full autofocus, despite being limited by a tiny form factor (bad for heat dissipation), a low capacity battery and a price tag that's only a fraction of what the 1DX III is expected to cost.

We're only talking about a 32% increase in required throughput, going from 32.5 MP 14 FPS to 30 MP 20 FPS. If Canon would want to do it, I sure hope they could.

If the X III will have a 20 or 24 MP sensor, I'm inclined to believe it's because the market required it, not because the technology didn't allow it. I simply find it hard to believe that Canon went all out with what they can do in terms of throughput with the M6 II and won't go above that, even with their newer flagship bodies.
I actually think their biggest reason to limit the camera to 24mp may be the tradeoff between resolution and high ISO performance. That said, the M6 II can shoot at 14 fps but it is limited to much shorter bursts and a small buffer. I feel the AF is also laggy as the shot counts increases with long bursts on erratic, fast moving subjects. The expectation for the 1dx III is that it will deliver consistent performance through the entire process whether you shoot 1 shot or a 75 shot burst. That consistency doesn't happen if you overload a processor. If you noticed on a previous CR article, Canon had a patent for a cooling system for a 1 series camera. The fact they were dedicating resources to study and patent this IP indicates heat is a significant issue. As I said above, I don't think it is beyond current technology to deliver a 30mpx 1dx III, it just may not be costs effective for development, components and manufacturing cost requirements when balanced against their perceived market. Personally, I would be thrilled with a 30mp sensor as long as it could deliver clean images at high ISO.
 
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slclick

PINHOLE
Dec 17, 2013
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I'm just not happy if the sensors in the 5D's and up are driven by video specs. Bassakwards way to design a non video centric body. (Yes, video use for 1 and 5 series are in the minority)
 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,308
302
It always worked for Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott when the Enterprise required a massive overhaul of her warp drives to get out of a tight spot.
in current market, the 20Mp rumor may reinforce a hand of a Canon pro who is presently on the fence and has no clear visibility into the next upgrade cycle.

I would totally expect Canon spilling some beans uncovering the 1dx iii resolution range at least very very soon.

and before someone made a sarcastic comment that Canon should hire me to steer the market... well, I do enterprise markets for a larger enterprise for living..
 
No, it has a 61Mp sensor that by default produces 20.1 Mp files. The pixels are grouped in 3’s & the data averaged across them. In this mode you get almost noiseless images at very high ISO settings. This is Mode 1 & FPS is 20.

Mode 2 is similar but each of the 3 pixels in the group had a different ISO applied to give amazing HDR. FPS in this mode is 12.

Mode 3 is a regular image from a 61 Mp sensor. FPS in this mode is 8. Expect output at high ISO to be a small improvement on 5DsR.

So there you have it. 110% sure.
 
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tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,059
359
No, it has a 61Mp sensor that by default produces 20.1 Mp files. The pixels are grouped in 3’s & the data averaged across them. In this mode you get almost noiseless images at very high ISO settings. This is Mode 1 & FPS is 20.

Mode 2 is similar but each of the 3 pixels in the group had a different ISO applied to give amazing HDR. FPS in this mode is 12.

Mode 3 is a regular image from a 61 Mp sensor. FPS in this mode is 8. Expect output at high ISO to be a small improvement on 5DsR.

So there you have it. 110% sure.
Harry Film is that you? :D
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
359
314
117
Williamsport, PA
I am guessing these are dedicated, special purpose components and processors that would be a significant expense to design and develop. Add software on top of that and you have a very complex, resources intensive and expensive process. I think we are spoiled by what we see with ARM processors used by Apple and other cell phone vendors. If you have a chip that is used by millions, you can cost justify the development and manufacturing infrastructure effort. The economics of scale is one reason that Sony has an advantage in sensor technology. They leverage development dollars across multiple sensor platforms. I don't doubt that current technology could be designed and adapted to address the throughput issues, but you might not be able to afford the camera. Once you put all of that together, you may also run into heat issues with processors and other components. Whether cameras or data centers, processing capacity and storage are ALWAYS an ongoing issue.
Why not use that chip and tech in ALL their cameras?
The 1DXIII would be built to 1D standards of durability and extra features. Just use the computing and other in all the cameras.
Wow that would really give Canon a leg up.
 

GoldWing

Canon EOS 1DXMKII
Oct 19, 2013
77
56
Los Angeles, CA
en.wikipedia.org
30MP and keep 15fps RAW with mirror box. 20fps with mirror up if Canon needs that for their ego. As a sports photographer I see no reason for more than 15fps to get all the action with an OVF that has stunning focus. I would love 30MP for crops. We use big white primes, know our venues and sports. We purposely do not use an 800mm when we should be using a 600mm so we get the full shot. Most of the time we crop. Again... we crop.... 30MP would be that kick we need. I don't care if we need 2 256GB cards for each game or 1. The shots go tethered out to the truck or runners take our cards to editors during the game. Come on Canon give us 30MP "you can do it"
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
I actually think their biggest reason to limit the camera to 24mp may be the tradeoff between resolution and high ISO performance. That said, the M6 II can shoot at 14 fps but it is limited to much shorter bursts and a small buffer. I feel the AF is also laggy as the shot counts increases with long bursts on erratic, fast moving subjects. The expectation for the 1dx III is that it will deliver consistent performance through the entire process whether you shoot 1 shot or a 75 shot burst. That consistency doesn't happen if you overload a processor. If you noticed on a previous CR article, Canon had a patent for a cooling system for a 1 series camera. The fact they were dedicating resources to study and patent this IP indicates heat is a significant issue. As I said above, I don't think it is beyond current technology to deliver a 30mpx 1dx III, it just may not be costs effective for development, components and manufacturing cost requirements when balanced against their perceived market. Personally, I would be thrilled with a 30mp sensor as long as it could deliver clean images at high ISO.

Why not use that chip and tech in ALL their cameras?
The 1DXIII would be built to 1D standards of durability and extra features. Just use the computing and other in all the cameras.
Wow that would really give Canon a leg up.
The M6 Mark II has a single main processor. The latest 1-series cameras have dual DiG!C processors plus an additional AF/metering processor. Chuck Westfall said the AF/metering processor in the 1D X, which used Dual DiG!C 5+ image processors, was equivalent to a DiG!C 4.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
30MP and keep 15fps RAW with mirror box. 20fps with mirror up if Canon needs that for their ego. As a sports photographer I see no reason for more than 15fps to get all the action with an OVF that has stunning focus. I would love 30MP for crops. We use big white primes, know our venues and sports. We purposely do not use an 800mm when we should be using a 600mm so we get the full shot. Most of the time we crop. Again... we crop.... 30MP would be that kick we need. I don't care if we need 2 256GB cards for each game or 1. The shots go tethered out to the truck or runners take our cards to editors during the game. Come on Canon give us 30MP "you can do it"
Honestly, how many events per year still have multiple major agencies there with multiple shooters and trucks/runners? Things aren't what they once were in that market.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
Can someone just remind me what the practical difference is between a 20 mp sensor and a 24 ?
Less than 10% in terms of linear numbers of pixels. 24 MP has 1.095445 pixels across the sensor for every 1.00000 pixels with a sensor the same size.


For a 3:2 aspect ratio its the difference between 6000x4000 and 5478x3652.
 
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