Functionality being added to the Canon EOS R soon after release with firmware update

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admiralburns

EOS M50
Jul 12, 2018
25
14
Virginia
It only happens at 4K resolution.

I actually don't mind the crop on my 5D4. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Got it, thanks. For me, 4k is fun and great for some purposes but I usually prefer 1080 / 60 or 120 because of the smaller file size and because in lower light (indoors, natural), there is less real advantage IMO to 4k. I was pretty surprised to hear about the 4k crop and lack of 1080 / 120. I understand that it doesn't bother you, but It seems insane to me that one would not want THE OPTION to utilize the entire FF sensor they just shelled out for. That said, I can get by on 1080 / 60 with no crop. I'm interested in the 35 1.8 macro (pending reviews and analysis) if I proceed with this camera, so that will do fine without crop for my purposes (mostly video of family). If it is much like the 35mm F2 USM, I'll probably buy it.
 
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mclaren777

EOS 80D
Apr 9, 2012
178
49
I just wish I could record 2.7K footage on these Canon cameras.

Or that I could select proper UHD resolution instead of DCI. :(
 
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The Fat Fish

VFX Artist
Jul 29, 2017
89
54
26
Exeter, UK
Come on, just remove the crop. We have hit the point where even Nikon are ahead of Canon in video and that's worrying. Swallow your pride Canon and make a disappointing release better.
 
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cpreston

EOS T7i
Mar 22, 2014
99
40
Why magnification is needed? Well for people who actually do video, I can imagine it is needed when there is low contrast at the point of interest. True. This is where AF may oscillate and many cameras, any brand you name it, will struggle, so no other choice than switching to manual and enlarge the scene to see perhaps via an external monitor. Is this a problem with R or any DPAF enabled camera? No, use DPAF, specially with its improved AF ability in low light, it can snap to the focus point and then switch to manual, if you need it to stay that way. Do you still need magnification?
From a pure usability standpoint, I've stopped using magnification now that the DPAF manual focus guides are available. Letting the guides tell you whether your focus point is in front of or behind the focal plane is a lot easier than trying judge contrast by punching in on a certain point while filming.
 
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admiralburns

EOS M50
Jul 12, 2018
25
14
Virginia
As a side note, I was just looking at a comparison on camera size.com between my current "EDC" setup (6D w/ 40mm 2.8 pancake) vs the Sony A7RIII with Sony 35mm 2.8 and the EOS R with 35mm 1.8, and others, link below.

http://j.mp/2O04rbS

Wow...it's making me really wish for a 35 or 40mm pancake 2.8 RF lens! The EOS R is quite "deep" with the 35mm 1.8 on it...even more so than the 6D with the 50mm 1.8. It positively dwarfs the Sony. Arguably, a more fair comparison would be with the 35mm F2...which I just did...and they are basically the same size "front to back".

Just goes to show, mirrorless CAN be significanlty smaller, but this is certainly not always the case.
 

tiggy@mac.com

Pentax K-1000
Jan 20, 2014
497
184
Thetford, VT
www.ForestMetrix.com
What is sad for me is the significant drop of the FPS with AF. The initial 8 FPS would have been great but 3 with AF priority is slow.
Canon is probably having problems with the readout speed of the sensor or processing all that information for fast enough AF.
Blackcoffee17, I think you hit the nail on the head. The big news in Canon Land is that its limiting factor is now officially sensor readout speed. And, my, what a limitation it is. My personal use case would drag it down to 3 frames per second, making my SL1 look zippy. The fact that it is coupled with factors such as focus priority and servo focusing seems to indicate that it is also competing for limited processing resources on the same chip (onto which Canon is loading all sorts of new computational tasks with new, nifty features). We may see them divvy up the chipset into some purpose-specific ASICs, which would hopefully sort the problem, but that's not as quick a fix as it sounds, as it likely involves changing the architecture.

Upshot: R looks promising; not usable for an action shooter; will be if Canon can offload readout to a fast enough chip, but maybe not as soon as we hope.

Do remember that Sony introduced a bunch of readout-speeding changes when it launched the A9, giving it the capacity to suck down about 500mb per second in readout. This isn't easy stuff. It's highly invasive to sensor design, so it's not like you can just add on a chip and call it good. If Canon wanted to have 10 fps with the 5D4 sensor in their new R mirrorless, they'd have had to introduce sensor changes *because* of the readout, and this product management decision would have taken place more than a year ago. That may well have happened after the A9 came out. If so, it would be consistent with a 5d4 sensor appearing first with lame FPS and Canon just being late as normal with the newer version of the sensor. That's my hope. Would mean we might expect something competitive sooner than later.
 

Bennymiata

EOS 6D MK II
To me, this new R is not meant to be a 1dx or 5d4 replacement, but more aimed at owners of 6d's.
The camera has some great features and I can still use my EF lenses now with additional functions like a control ring or drop in filters.
The new lenses they've released look very tasty too.
4k crop? Not a big deal for me. Just mount an ef-s lens on it and the crop goes away (you can't do that with a 5d4).
Few people have a computer that can handle 500mb/sec videos anyway, so for most people good HD is more than adequate.
My customers all want their videos delived on a DVD anyway.
To me, I'd rather have a cropped but still good 4k, than have a camera stop mid video because of overheating (I've seen this happen on Sonys a few times).
I love touch drag focussing on my M5. Much easier to use than a joystick.
I reckon the R will be a fun camera to use, and it will sell in the squillions!
The fact that Canon will be adding features via firmware updates is also a good thing.

I can't wait for the more upmarket version to come out.
 

admiralburns

EOS M50
Jul 12, 2018
25
14
Virginia
Personally, I love the idea of them upgrading the camera via firmware upgrades, not just for bug fixes. I've owned two Fuji's and they stayed "current" longer due to multiple upgrades that added additional, meaningful features. I can tell you that it is one of many things that has created great loyalty among Fuji owners, they feel that the manufacturer is "on their side" as opposed to trying to squeeze every last cent and holding back features.
 

KrisK

EOS T7i
Jun 8, 2013
58
4
It only happens at 4K resolution.

I actually don't mind the crop on my 5D4. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah. I'm more concerned with how rolling shutter and video AF compares with the Z6. I'm assuming DPAF will still hold a significant advantage over the Nikon, but who's to say without tests.
 

RayValdez360

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2012
426
184
So it's a beta series for consumer testing? Better wait for extensive test results - and curious what will be offered from Panasonic.
the camera isnt released yet. i am guessing they rushed the software for it to put it into the hands of photographers to build hype before it can be bought. i dont know if other cameras were like this right before the release date.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,738
3,040
To me, this new R is not meant to be a 1dx or 5d4 replacement, but more aimed at owners of 6d's.
The camera has some great features and I can still use my EF lenses now with additional functions like a control ring or drop in filters.
The new lenses they've released look very tasty too.
4k crop? Not a big deal for me. Just mount an ef-s lens on it and the crop goes away (you can't do that with a 5d4).
Few people have a computer that can handle 500mb/sec videos anyway, so for most people good HD is more than adequate.
My customers all want their videos delived on a DVD anyway.
To me, I'd rather have a cropped but still good 4k, than have a camera stop mid video because of overheating (I've seen this happen on Sonys a few times).
I love touch drag focussing on my M5. Much easier to use than a joystick.
I reckon the R will be a fun camera to use, and it will sell in the squillions!
The fact that Canon will be adding features via firmware updates is also a good thing.

I can't wait for the more upmarket version to come out.
Blackcoffee17, I think you hit the nail on the head. The big news in Canon Land is that its limiting factor is now officially sensor readout speed. And, my, what a limitation it is. My personal use case would drag it down to 3 frames per second, making my SL1 look zippy. The fact that it is coupled with factors such as focus priority and servo focusing seems to indicate that it is also competing for limited processing resources on the same chip (onto which Canon is loading all sorts of new computational tasks with new, nifty features). We may see them divvy up the chipset into some purpose-specific ASICs, which would hopefully sort the problem, but that's not as quick a fix as it sounds, as it likely involves changing the architecture.

Upshot: R looks promising; not usable for an action shooter; will be if Canon can offload readout to a fast enough chip, but maybe not as soon as we hope.

Do remember that Sony introduced a bunch of readout-speeding changes when it launched the A9, giving it the capacity to suck down about 500mb per second in readout. This isn't easy stuff. It's highly invasive to sensor design, so it's not like you can just add on a chip and call it good. If Canon wanted to have 10 fps with the 5D4 sensor in their new R mirrorless, they'd have had to introduce sensor changes *because* of the readout, and this product management decision would have taken place more than a year ago. That may well have happened after the A9 came out. If so, it would be consistent with a 5d4 sensor appearing first with lame FPS and Canon jst being late as normal with the newer version of the sensor. That's my hope. Would mean we might expect something competitive sooner than later.
That's interesting information about readout speed and what I have been trying to find out about. I am playing with a Sony RX10 IV that has the Sony A9 AF system and fast data transfer with 24 fps for intelligent tracking. I hope Canon can incorporate fast intelligent AF tracking soon as it is really useful not only for tracking but also for locking on to objects against a background and also allowing you to keep focussing on say a head and recomposing while retaining focus.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
Funny how when Fujifilm do this, the internet says it shows how they are “listening to their customers” and striving to “continuously improve their products”. When Canon do it they are “beta testing on paying customers” and “deliberately crippling their products”, then “changing their minds” after a customer backlash...
Sigh internet trolls and fan boys are so annoying sometime just like politics. They spin it to fit their narrative.

Fully articulate LCD, touch screen, 10 bit video, 28-70 F2 but they always complain about the crop.

There is alot of things Canon did it right for their non profesional FF mirrorless and wrongs yet people only concentrate on the negatives. Just wait...

This seems like an odd move from Canon to me. How quickly has Canon offered firmware updates following a release previously? This seems more rushing a product to market than crippling - Canon must have been building these cameras for a while to be ready to ship next month, so they must be manufactured with an earlier firmware. I really doubt Canon could see people complain about a few issues and then decide to change gears in less than a week and have firmware released very quickly after - that sort of work takes time.

I am wondering if the rumours of 2 FF mirrorless cameras were true and the second one is being held because they don't want reviews of it with unfinished firmware. I have heard exactly 0 reviewers mention that the firmware updates are coming quickly following launch, so impressions are already being released, some of which targeting issues this firmware update will resolve.

My only point here is that this seems out of character for Canon - typically everything is intended to work 100% out of the box, and this is a step away from that. Unsure what that means in the grander scheme of things.

It's possible Canon working on certain technology trying to get it right (IBIS, eyeAF, etc). They figure they can wait to release next year in March for CP or May for Photokina to wow us wiht a better firmware.
 
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Jack Jian

I'm New Here
Feb 14, 2018
20
21
Anyone know if you can MAGNIFY focus during video recording with the EOS R?

Apparently you can now do this with the XT-3, according to EOSHD. This is huge for video makers.
The Focus Guide feature from c700 is already much better than the magnify. This is the only Camera to have a Focus Guide feature from the bigger video brothers. You can check it. Youtube reviewers are idiots and hence won't cover those things as they dont know it.
 
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Refurb7

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2016
252
41
This camera looks excellent to me. Yes, IBIS and dual cards would have been nice. But they are not dealbreakers for me. The overall design seems better than that of the Sony A73 in a number of ways (color, menus, ergonomics, low light autofocus, EVF, tilt screen, eye relief, aspect ratios, etc.). It costs a little more, but I can use my Canon flashes and all of my Canon lenses without worrying about 3rd party adapters.
 
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syder

EOS RP
Apr 29, 2012
200
59
Is it? So huge only Fuji have cottoned on?
Its a feature that all of the Cinema series have (with a magnify button that used to be on the handgrip by the thumb for very easy focus checking).

On the C200 i use it far less often because of the focus guide and dpaf... Which will both apparently be on the R.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,224
415
On the C200 i use it far less often because of the focus guide and dpaf... Which will both apparently be on the R.
Thakns. That sounds like the design of the R is probably Canon listening to people who use those functions for more than a few clips and what improves their user experience. Again.
 

Bilal

80D
Sep 10, 2018
4
7
I was waiting for this camera for sometime and wanted to upgrade to a full frame. I held on the urge to buy 6D mark ii.

I only wanted a couple of features for me to buy this. C-log and 120fps at 1080p were my top priority. They missed the 2nd one. I can compromise on the cropped 4K but not 120fps.

Is there any chance that the firmware will include 120fps at 1080p?
 
I was waiting for this camera for sometime and wanted to upgrade to a full frame. I held on the urge to buy 6D mark ii.

I only wanted a couple of features for me to buy this. C-log and 120fps at 1080p were my top priority. They missed the 2nd one. I can compromise on the cropped 4K but not 120fps.

Is there any chance that the firmware will include 120fps at 1080p?
The question is - why there is a 4K crop and why there is no 120fps for the 1080p. If the answer is that Canon is protecting their higher lines, then logically yes, it can be done. What worries me more though, is the possibility, that Canon tech is not there yet, to provide such functionality. In such case, I just hope, that for an high-end model, Canon has new sensor tech at its sleeves.
 
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