Rented a D600

[friedmud]

For the past couple of weeks many people on this board have been telling those of us that are not overly enthused about the 6D but are still wanting to go full frame to "Jump Ship to Nikon". Well... I decided to dip my pinky toe into that water and rented a D600 and the Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8G.

I received it late last night (wife missed the Fedex guy). First impressions: body feels lighter than my 7D but still well made; lens is damn heavy. I put the lens on and proceeded to go through my normal rituals of learning a new camera. This is where trouble started.

I was expecting the control layout to be different... but I wasn't expecting it to be retarded. It's as if someone was throwing darts at a picture of the camera to decide where to put buttons / functions. There is no central "theme" or purpose behind the design at all. Let me go through a few functions to demonstrate:

1. AF selection. This is the worst offender.
1a. Manual Focus. There are two places to choose manual focus vs AF. On the lens _and_ on the body. They both have to be set to AF for AF to work.
1b. AF mode selection. There is a stupid button down by the barrel on the front left (if you are holding the camera to your face) _on_ one of the AF/MF switches that you have press and hold and twirl one of the two control wheels (but which one?) to select AI Focus, Single, Continuous and the other control wheel (but which one?) to select an AF point selection mode.

The first problem there is that you have to use your left hand to change AF modes! How the hell do you do that with a big 400mm+ lens while you have the camera to your face?

The second problem is that it's not clear which wheel changes which thing. On my 7D anything controlled by the wheels is on a button by the LCD (which, first of all I can press with my right hand while holding it to my face) and it is obvious (because of the label on the button) which wheel controls which option. This is a small thing because you will ultimately remember which wheel is which... but it's this lack of thought that permeates the whole way this camera works.

Now... as for the AF modes themselves... they suck compared to my 7D. I love being able to toggle through AF point selection modes _while my eye is to the camera_ and use the joystick to move it around on my 7D... it is EXTREMELY fast. On the D600 that's not really possible (because of the button location) but even if it were there are really only _two_ AF point selection modes: Auto and Single Point. Now, there are some "restrictions" you can put on Auto... but it's still basically Auto. Compare to my 7D where I can cluster, I can do point expansion, single point, full Auto, etc. Even worse: the D600 doesn't have Orientation Sensitive AF Point Selection! I really don't understand that and it's one of those things I love about my 7D. I could go on about how limited the AF system is for quite a while but I'll stop there.

2. Everything looks cheap. This is harder to put down in words. The LCD on top looks like an old 80's LCD watch and the menus on the back screen look like they would be more at home on a $100 P&S. For instance when you hold down (yes you have to hold it down) the exposure compensation button (which is in a random position next to the LCD) and twirl one of the wheels (which one? and why?) to set some exposure compensation it shows you a big 80's style watch number instead of the cool pointer that you move left and right on a 7D. It's a small thing, but it just leaves me feeling that they were cutting corners...

3. Finger gymnastics. As I've already pointed out, to change any settings you have to _hold down_ buttons with one finger (or even another hand) and twirl a random wheel. But it gets worse. To change shooting modes you have to hold down the lock button (I know some people like that, and that there is even an free "upgrade" you can get for your 7D that does this, but to me it's just a pain) AND you have to hold a release button to change "Drive Modes" while twirling a tiny ring around the shooting mode selector. All of this adds up to sore finger tips and sore fingers. Seriously, I shot for hours last night with this thing around my house and as I'm typing this my fingers are sore! I have rather big hands, but even for me it is uncomfortable to hold down some of the buttons and locks and twirl wheels. This is not too mention the fact that the grip is uncomfortable (it has a pretty sharp edge just under the front twirly wheel that digs into your finger when you have a heavy lens on like the 24-70 and it's smallish... which means I am gripping pretty hard with my fingers instead of my hand unlike my 7D)

4. ISO. Why in the holy hell of the world is the ISO selection button (that you have to HOLD DOWN and twirl a random wheel to change the ISO) on the back bottom LEFT of the camera? Again... you cannot do this with one hand. You canNOT do it while holding the camera to your face. One other quick hit on ISO: Why does it BLINK at me in the viewfinder that it's on Auto ISO? Why? Why blinking? Right in my eye! I truly don't understand.

5. Drive mode selection "ring". I mentioned it earlier... but it warrants it's own section. Why is drive mode (Single shot, Continuous, 2 Second Delay, Remote, Mirror Lockup) selection a _physical_ ring that you have to press and hold a lock button and twirl? This is dumb on a number of fronts... but I think the most egregious is that it mean that I can't set the drive mode to one of the user defined settings (U1, U2). On my 7D I have a "Fast Action" user setting (which is the last one BTW... so I can just crank over the mode dial and I know I'm on it... the Nikon mode selector spins all the way around so you have to actually take the camera away from your face and LOOK at the dial to know where you are) that sets continuous focus and highspeed continuous drive (among other things). You CANNOT do that on a D600.


I could go on for longer about stuff I don't like... but what about things I like about the way the D600 works?

1. The on/off/LCD light switch switch integrated into the shutter button is cool.
2. Minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO is really nice.
3. Max ISO selection is good.


All griping with no pictures on a photography forum? Yes. I haven't shot anything worth posting yet (just around the house last night and my office this morning). I'm headed into the mountains this weekend to put it to the Landscape test... and I'll post back with my findings. From what I can tell on the back screen the image quality looks really good (which is why I'm doing this in the first place). But can the IQ overcome the inequities in the functioning of the camera? We'll see....

 

[friedmud]

One more thing because it pertains to the discussion on the 6D. 39 AF points sounds great. But if they only cover a postage stamp in the middle they are worthless. I'm starting to think that 11 well spaced AF points with only one cross type MIGHT be better than 39 points jammed into the center and with no grouping or any other good way to control them....

 

[rumorzmonger]

Sounds like you need to sit down and read the instruction manual - a lot of your complaints could be remedied by changing a few settings.

The ergonomics of the D600 aren't as good as my 5D Mark III, 7D, or D800e, but there are really only a few minor annoyances as far as I'm concerned (like not being able to review an image by pressing the "ok" button in the centre of the rear dial like on all of my other cameras...). Once you set the controls the way you like and get used to the camera, it works pretty well, and the image quality is light years ahead of the 7D.

 

[friedmud]

Sounds like you need to sit down and read the instruction manual - a lot of your complaints could be remedied by changing a few settings.

I suppose that is true. I might be able to remap ISO and AF buttons the right hand side. What about the drive mode selector? It is also definitely the case that I would get used to a lot of these annoyances... but some of them (like lack of AF points outside of the center of the frame and lack of AF point selection modes) are definite steps back.

The ergonomics of the D600 aren't as good as my 5D Mark III, 7D, or D800e, but there are really only a few minor annoyances as far as I'm concerned (like not being able to review an image by pressing the "ok" button in the centre of the rear dial like on all of my other cameras...). Once you set the controls the way you like and get used to the camera, it works pretty well, and the image quality is light years ahead of the 7D.

Good to hear! I'm hoping that's the case. I was really excited to rent this... and have been planning to sell my Canon gear to get one. I (obviously) was really disappointed with the ergonomics last night which has definitely brought down my "camera high". I'm hoping to recapture it this evening with some landscape photography of some local waterfalls in the sunset... we'll see!

 

[Tammy]

But is the rear LCD screen green??

Also, what I find interesting that no review has specifically mentioned is that the D600 has 39 AF points, 9 of which are crosss type, but only sensitive to F/5.6. There is no center F/2.8 cross type for use with larger aperture lenses. Not even F/4. I just thought that was quite interesting, and could cause some people some frustration.

 

[weekendshooter]

Sounds like you need to sit down and read the instruction manual - a lot of your complaints could be remedied by changing a few settings.

The ergonomics of the D600 aren't as good as my 5D Mark III, 7D, or D800e, but there are really only a few minor annoyances as far as I'm concerned (like not being able to review an image by pressing the "ok" button in the centre of the rear dial like on all of my other cameras...). Once you set the controls the way you like and get used to the camera, it works pretty well, and the image quality is light years ahead of the 7D.

This is really all that needs to be said - Nikon's control layout is VERY different. I love it, others hate it. It is highly customizable though, so if you sit down and really pore through the options, you'll be able to get it to a place where you feel comfortable.

I'm pretty sure you're just flat out wrong about the AF mode selections; my D700 can do auto, single point, single point + 9, 15, or 51 point tracking, or single point + 51 point 3D tracking (using data from the RGB metering to aid in AF). The menus and operation are very similar in the D600, so I'd be surprised if the D600 didn't have these options, but with 39 points instead of 51.

Holding down and twirling knobs is a hallmark of Nikon's control layout - i like it, but it's not for everyone. If you can't get used to it, there's an option in the custom menu under Controls that lets you press any button once and then be able to spin the appropriate wheel to change the settings, rather than have to hold the button down.

That said, almost all of your points are just harping on things that are different on Nikon and do take some getting used to; it took me a couple of weeks to get fully comfortable changing settings on the fly, but now I can do everything without taking my eye off the viewfinder just like I would on a 7D or any other camera of that level. The D600 is definitely a step down in construction from a 7D, but it's still a very usable and well-put-together camera, and the image quality is top-notch from what I have seen.

 

[Tammy]

Sounds like you need to sit down and read the instruction manual - a lot of your complaints could be remedied by changing a few settings.

I suppose that is true. I might be able to remap ISO and AF buttons the right hand side. What about the drive mode selector? It is also definitely the case that I would get used to a lot of these annoyances... but some of them (like lack of AF points outside of the center of the frame and lack of AF point selection modes) are definite steps back.

It is an entry level full frame. The 5D Mark II is/was no different with its 9 AF points. That was my biggest gripe when I started using one, coming from the well spaced out 9 AF points on a 60D. From what I read, the AF points in the 5D2 are like that because Canon actually used a APS-C AF sensor mapped to cover the full frame etc to save costs. Completely explains all the focus points in the middle, as if I really only had ONE! Nikon has opted to do the same thing, using the APS-C D7000 based AF.

The autofocus on the 5D3 can not be understated in how much better it is and how much easier it is to take the shots that you really want. People on this board that complain about the features for the increased price have never used one. Those who have don't need to complain.

 

[friedmud]

But is the rear LCD screen green??

Also, what I find interesting that no review has specifically mentioned is that the D600 has 39 AF points, 9 of which are crosss type, but only sensitive to F/5.6. There is no center F/2.8 cross type for use with larger aperture lenses. Not even F/4. I just thought that was quite interesting, and could cause some people some frustration.

I haven't noticed any greenness.

The other thing about the cross type AF points on the D600 is that they are all clustered in the middle (it's the very middle 9). Those 9 middle points cover essentially the same area as the _one_ middle cross type on my 7D... so even though it says there are 9... it doesn't mean the same thing....

 

[weekendshooter]

Sounds like you need to sit down and read the instruction manual - a lot of your complaints could be remedied by changing a few settings.

I suppose that is true. I might be able to remap ISO and AF buttons the right hand side. What about the drive mode selector? It is also definitely the case that I would get used to a lot of these annoyances... but some of them (like lack of AF points outside of the center of the frame and lack of AF point selection modes) are definite steps back.

The ergonomics of the D600 aren't as good as my 5D Mark III, 7D, or D800e, but there are really only a few minor annoyances as far as I'm concerned (like not being able to review an image by pressing the "ok" button in the centre of the rear dial like on all of my other cameras...). Once you set the controls the way you like and get used to the camera, it works pretty well, and the image quality is light years ahead of the 7D.

Good to hear! I'm hoping that's the case. I was really excited to rent this... and have been planning to sell my Canon gear to get one. I (obviously) was really disappointed with the ergonomics last night which has definitely brought down my "camera high". I'm hoping to recapture it this evening with some landscape photography of some local waterfalls in the sunset... we'll see!

You can remap any function to the DOF preview or Fn button near it, so if you don't like the ISO placement you can put it there. Another neat trick is mapping one of those buttons to "first option in my menu" - My Menu is a place where you can put any of the menu options in any order, and then you can map a button to open the first function you place there. I use it to quickly turn auto ISO on/off, though you can put anything else there as well, such as AF point expansion modes, etc.

 

[weekendshooter]

As I suspected, the D600 lets you choose from single point, 9, 21, or 39 point expansion, or 39 + 3D tracking.

 

[friedmud]

You can remap any function to the DOF preview or Fn button near it, so if you don't like the ISO placement you can put it there. Another neat trick is mapping one of those buttons to "first option in my menu" - My Menu is a place where you can put any of the menu options in any order, and then you can map a button to open the first function you place there. I use it to quickly turn auto ISO on/off, though you can put anything else there as well, such as AF point expansion modes, etc.

Great - thanks! I'll give that a try. But it does still boggle the mind why they would consciously put extremely important functionality on the left side of the body...

Any trick for mapping "Drive Mode" like (CH) to a userdefined mode like U1? I really want to be able to turn to U1 and have it mean "3D AF" with "Continuous Shooting"....

 

[friedmud]

As I suspected, the D600 lets you choose from single point, 9, 21, or 39 point expansion, or 39 + 3D tracking.

What does 9/21 mean? When I select that option it just looks like I'm in single point selection mode... I can select any one of the 39 points still. Is it using the 9/21 points _around_ the point I'm selecting or what?

 

[friedmud]

Nevermind - I saw it in the manual. It is akin to "point expansion" on my 7D. That's good to know.

But - it still means it's missing the Zone modes from my 7D and the orientation sensitive AF selection. But I suppose I can live without it...

 

[weekendshooter]

You can remap any function to the DOF preview or Fn button near it, so if you don't like the ISO placement you can put it there. Another neat trick is mapping one of those buttons to "first option in my menu" - My Menu is a place where you can put any of the menu options in any order, and then you can map a button to open the first function you place there. I use it to quickly turn auto ISO on/off, though you can put anything else there as well, such as AF point expansion modes, etc.

Great - thanks! I'll give that a try. But it does still boggle the mind why they would consciously put extremely important functionality on the left side of the body...

Any trick for mapping "Drive Mode" like (CH) to a userdefined mode like U1? I really want to be able to turn to U1 and have it mean "3D AF" with "Continuous Shooting"....

As far as I know, the drive mode wheel is an absolute and can't be overridden by a menu option or a U# setting. You can definitely set the U modes to cover the AF options, but I think you have to switch the drive mode manually. You should check on this in the manual though, as I'm not familiar with the U settings (my 700 doesn't have them at all).

I can say that the drive mode wheel becomes second nature very quickly if you give it a chance. Being able to set a custom speed for Continuous Low mode is really nice, and the lock is easier to operate than the top locking dial IMO.

 

[weekendshooter]

Nevermind - I saw it in the manual. It is akin to "point expansion" on my 7D. That's good to know.

But - it still means it's missing the Zone modes from my 7D and the orientation sensitive AF selection. But I suppose I can live without it...

Yeah, the systems are just different. I find that leaving the tracking mode in 3D works well when I need to hit a moving target, and I switch back and forth from single point only to 51 + 3D with a flick of a lever. On the 600 I believe the analog would be hold down the left AF button near the lens and twirl the front dial.

 

[weekendshooter]

Nevermind - I saw it in the manual. It is akin to "point expansion" on my 7D. That's good to know.

But - it still means it's missing the Zone modes from my 7D and the orientation sensitive AF selection. But I suppose I can live without it...

Oh another trick is that you can use whatever point expansion you want while limiting the number of selectable points to 11 - this effectively gives you a sort of zone AF system, as you select from one of 11 points and let the camera do expansion to aid in tracking. This makes it easier to move between points if you don't want to scroll between all 39.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Also, what I find interesting that no review has specifically mentioned is that the D600 has 39 AF points, 9 of which are crosss type, but only sensitive to F/5.6. There is no center F/2.8 cross type for use with larger aperture lenses. Not even F/4. I just thought that was quite interesting, and could cause some people some frustration.

This is true on the surface, but might actually be false in reality. Nikon bodies all have f/5.6-sensitive AF points (or f/8 now, in some cases). They've never had the f/2.8-sensitive points of Canon's AF system. But...let's look at Canon's 1D III, 1DsIII, and 1D IV. All of the AF points except the center are f/2.8 in one orientation and f/5.6 in the other. The center point is f/4 and f/8, respectively. Conventional wisdom is that the f/2.8 (and f/4) points have higher accuracy because of the wider baseline for the AF system - and that's true, all else being equal. So, does that mean that the center point on those 1-series bodies is actually less accurate than the surrounding points, beacuse of the narrower aperture baseline? No. Canon has stated they achieve the required accuracy (equivalent to f/2.8 and f/5.6, respectively) at the center point because the AF sensor lines that make up that point have double the pixel density of the standard AF lines.

So...what if some or even all of Nikon's f/5.6 AF sensor lines have a higher density of pixels? That could make all of those f/5.6 points as accurate as Canon's very limited number of f/2.8 points. I have absolutely no information on the pixel density of Nikon vs. Canon AF sensor lines, I'm just suggesting it as a possibility.

 

[weekendshooter]

Also, what I find interesting that no review has specifically mentioned is that the D600 has 39 AF points, 9 of which are crosss type, but only sensitive to F/5.6. There is no center F/2.8 cross type for use with larger aperture lenses. Not even F/4. I just thought that was quite interesting, and could cause some people some frustration.

This is true on the surface, but might actually be false in reality. Nikon bodies all have f/5.6-sensitive AF points (or f/8 now, in some cases). They've never had the f/2.8-sensitive points of Canon's AF system. But...let's look at Canon's 1D III, 1DsIII, and 1D IV. All of the AF points except the center are f/2.8 in one orientation and f/5.6 in the other. The center point is f/4 and f/8, respectively. Conventional wisdom is that the f/2.8 (and f/4) points have higher accuracy because of the wider baseline for the AF system - and that's true, all else being equal. So, does that mean that the center point on those 1-series bodies is actually less accurate than the surrounding points, beacuse of the narrower aperture baseline? No. Canon has stated they achieve the required accuracy (equivalent to f/2.8 and f/5.6, respectively) at the center point because the AF sensor lines that make up that point have double the pixel density of the standard AF lines.

So...what if some or even all of Nikon's f/5.6 AF sensor lines have a higher density of pixels? That could make all of those f/5.6 points as accurate as Canon's very limited number of f/2.8 points. I have absolutely no information on the pixel density of Nikon vs. Canon AF sensor lines, I'm just suggesting it as a possibility.

Roger at LensRentals has a recent blog post about Nikon AF; he basically concludes that the single-point AF is solid and reliable, but does not have the extra precision that he found with the 1Dx/5D3 AF combined with the newest Canon lenses. This would indicate that the AF on the Nikons is about on par with the older many-point Canon systems, but lacks the magic combo of the double-precision point combined with whatever new feedback they put into the 70-300L, 24/2.8 IS, and 40 pancake.

 

[friedmud]

Oh another trick is that you can use whatever point expansion you want while limiting the number of selectable points to 11 - this effectively gives you a sort of zone AF system, as you select from one of 11 points and let the camera do expansion to aid in tracking. This makes it easier to move between points if you don't want to scroll between all 39.

I will try that as I have found all the little points to be cumbersome. Thanks for the tip!

So I just went downtown and did some shooting on my lunchbreak:

1. IQ is amazing. Flat out amazing. Still can't process the files yet to post some here... 'cause I'm back at work but just using the back screen I can tell that ISO 100 IQ is awesome (which is what I'm after)... and higher ISO is _very_ good. I'll post some pics tonight.

2. Getting somewhat used to the control layout. Still not super happy with the way AF mode selection and ISO selection works... but I haven't remapped them yet either (not sure it's really easier to hit the Fn button... but I'll try it).

Thanks for the tips!

 

[weekendshooter]

Glad to hear it! I definitely know the feeling of coming home with a new rental and being frustrated that it's not behaving the way I want out of the box. Nikon bodies give you lots of knobs, buttons, and wheels to fiddle with, so don't worry if you're not totally comfortable with it just yet. A good amount of the controls do rely on being able to use your left hand, but it's not too bad once you get used to it.

Another point to note about the ISO selection is that I use Auto ISO in either Av or M mode almost exclusively. You can set a minimum shutter speed based on the focal length of the lens and a maximum ISO value. Exposure compensation also works in any mode with auto iso enabled - you can even set it to be changed with the secondary dial in Av or Tv mode (whichever dial is not currently being used) without needing to press the +/- button. I usually don't worry at all about ISO as long as it's at 1600 or below, and I can see the current value of the auto ISO through the viewfinder, so I know where it is at all times and whether or not I need to adjust aperture/shutter speed.

That's just my perspective on the ISO controls, since I like to be able to control my DOF and shutter speed without bothering with setting an ISO for every shot. If i'm outside shooting landscapes and have time to set up in between shots then I can easily turn off auto ISO with the front Fn button that I mentioned earlier.

Edit: I think the AF controls should be quite straightforward. I stay in continuous mode all the time, as I haven't noticed any significant differences in accuracy between single-shot and continuous, even in very shallow DoF situations. This allows me to switch between single point only and full 3D tracking with the press of a button. I don't think there's any reason to use any of the intermediate settings, as 3D is the only setting that allows the camera to use information from the RGB metering to aid in AF tracking. In the case of the D600 i believe you would set this up by going to AF-C by holding the AF button and dialing it in with the rear wheel and then choosing between single and multi-point with the AF button and front wheel. You shouldn't ever need to change the point expansion setting away from 3D tracking.