Sadly, the 6dm2 and 5div to be obsolete shortly

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
274
121
From a more practical standpoint, what impact will the 850 have? It really is a bit of a game shifter. Certainly it won't obsolete the Canons (rolling my eyes at the idiocy of that statement), however I am hoping it will help drive down prices faster than Canon would want. Also hopefully Canon will make sure that future products don't hold back as they have tended to do the last few years. What are your thoughts on that?
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,167
373
Adelino said:
From a more practical standpoint, what impact will the 850 have? It really is a bit of a game shifter. Certainly it won't obsolete the Canons (rolling my eyes at the idiocy of that statement), however I am hoping it will help drive down prices faster than Canon would want. Also hopefully Canon will make sure that future products don't hold back as they have tended to do the last few years. What are your thoughts on that?
I am not sure what on the D850 is a 'game shifter'. Do you care to elaborate?
I think Canon has seen for several years technically superior models from Nikon that have little effect on its own success. They see Nikons with more MP, more DR, 4k and tilty flippy that still underperform in sales terms compared to Canon - and, IMO, that tells Canon one thing: most people buy cameras to take stills and Canon is doing it right.

However, where I do converge with your opinion is that they have fine tuned the interface so much that they cannot continue to rely on that, and trial by internet is becoming ever more prevalent and the marketing departments of any company cannot control that.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,048
317
Vancouver, BC
Thought process of a person who thinks the 6DII and 5DIV will shortly be obsolete:

1. Ooooh look. Canon has a 5DIII that is getting rave reviews. I always wanted to take great pictures. I'm going to buy one and spend another $4,000 on lenses!

2. WTF. My pictures look worse than my cell phone pictures. $7,000 and you'd think that my pictures would be in FOCUS. Canon sucks.

3. Ooooo look. Nikon has a D850 that is getting rave reviews. Screw this crap Canon. I'm going to buy one and spend another $4,000 on lenses!

4. WTF. My pictures still look worse than my cell phone photos. HOW COME I CAN'T GET ME AND THE CAR IN FOCUS FOR THE SELFIE??? WHY DOES THAT BIRD KEEP MOVING??

5. Goes back to Samsung Galaxy.

6. Conclusion: "Cell phone cameras are just as good as... BETTER THAN... DSLRs!"

Good riddance.

If your photos suck with 6D, 6DII, 5DIV, 5DIII, whatever... HINT: the problem isn't the DR, megapixels, AF points, or FPS. My other hobby is modelling, and it's much the same. People go and buy a $1,000 airbrush, and just expect that their output quality will improve by a factor of ten thousand, and then are disappointed when everything looks like poo.

Without investing copious amounts of time, learning and improving by trial and error, there will not be quality finished product. The improvements to be gained by gear are miniscule in almost all cases, and all that high end equipment is often a lot harder to use for people who are unwilling or unable to invest the time in a steep learning curve than much cheaper alternatives.
 

scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,398
249
UK
www.flickr.com
Mikehit said:
Adelino said:
From a more practical standpoint, what impact will the 850 have? It really is a bit of a game shifter. Certainly it won't obsolete the Canons (rolling my eyes at the idiocy of that statement), however I am hoping it will help drive down prices faster than Canon would want. Also hopefully Canon will make sure that future products don't hold back as they have tended to do the last few years. What are your thoughts on that?
I am not sure what on the D850 is a 'game shifter'. Do you care to elaborate?
I think Canon has seen for several years technically superior models from Nikon that have little effect on its own success. They see Nikons with more MP, more DR, 4k and tilty flippy that still underperform in sales terms compared to Canon - and, IMO, that tells Canon one thing: most people buy cameras to take stills and Canon is doing it right.
+1

I think the new Nikon sounds great, and I wish them well. But the D800, and then the D810 were supposedly magic cameras that would change everything (according to online chatter), and a few years on, nothing much has changed.

Talys said:
Without investing copious amounts of time, learning and improving by trial and error, there will not be quality finished product. The improvements to be gained by gear are miniscule in almost all cases, and all that high end equipment is often a lot harder to use for people who are unwilling or unable to invest the time in a steep learning curve than much cheaper alternatives.
Also +1 :)
 

GlynH

I'm New Here
Oct 10, 2015
24
0
scyrene said:
Mikehit said:
Adelino said:
From a more practical standpoint, what impact will the 850 have? It really is a bit of a game shifter. Certainly it won't obsolete the Canons (rolling my eyes at the idiocy of that statement), however I am hoping it will help drive down prices faster than Canon would want. Also hopefully Canon will make sure that future products don't hold back as they have tended to do the last few years. What are your thoughts on that?
I am not sure what on the D850 is a 'game shifter'. Do you care to elaborate?
I think Canon has seen for several years technically superior models from Nikon that have little effect on its own success. They see Nikons with more MP, more DR, 4k and tilty flippy that still underperform in sales terms compared to Canon - and, IMO, that tells Canon one thing: most people buy cameras to take stills and Canon is doing it right.
+1

I think the new Nikon sounds great, and I wish them well. But the D800, and then the D810 were supposedly magic cameras that would change everything (according to online chatter), and a few years on, nothing much has changed.

Talys said:
Without investing copious amounts of time, learning and improving by trial and error, there will not be quality finished product. The improvements to be gained by gear are miniscule in almost all cases, and all that high end equipment is often a lot harder to use for people who are unwilling or unable to invest the time in a steep learning curve than much cheaper alternatives.
Also +1 :)
Yup. All of this...
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
274
121
Mikehit said:
Adelino said:
From a more practical standpoint, what impact will the 850 have? It really is a bit of a game shifter. Certainly it won't obsolete the Canons (rolling my eyes at the idiocy of that statement), however I am hoping it will help drive down prices faster than Canon would want. Also hopefully Canon will make sure that future products don't hold back as they have tended to do the last few years. What are your thoughts on that?
I am not sure what on the D850 is a 'game shifter'. Do you care to elaborate?
I think Canon has seen for several years technically superior models from Nikon that have little effect on its own success. They see Nikons with more MP, more DR, 4k and tilty flippy that still underperform in sales terms compared to Canon - and, IMO, that tells Canon one thing: most people buy cameras to take stills and Canon is doing it right.

However, where I do converge with your opinion is that they have fine tuned the interface so much that they cannot continue to rely on that, and trial by internet is becoming ever more prevalent and the marketing departments of any company cannot control that.
By game shifter I mean that, for the price, the 850 really nails a lot of performance/specs/features. There is very little that it does not bring and the price is very nice. I realize that Canon has superior ergonomics and support, but at a certain point they need to stay competitive on price/features. On reflection it looks like Canon could eclipse the 850 if they update the 5DS and hit key features that most people will expect (better DR, higher ISO capability, a bump in FPS, 4K, and touch screen). Price wise Canon may need to lower prices a bit though.
 
Aug 22, 2010
1,578
269
48
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
Oh dear...to the OP....you follow the MO of yet another Nikon / Sony fanboy with zero photographic experience decides to troll a Canon forum who do have members with years of professional photographic experience. Cameras do not take photographs....photographers do. The difference between a crappy photograph and an award winning photograph is the photographer...not the camera.

Canon are the world leader in DSLR equipment in terms of sales. Nikon and Sony are 2nd and 3rd place and that's irrespective of features or back lit buttons. So to the OP...please either grow up and respect the forum here or go and crawl back under the delusional rock you came from and give us all a break.
 

SecureGSM

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 26, 2017
926
58
There is an army of paid shills that are roaming around internet and leave flaming messages and engage in controversial discussion with a single purpose: discredit one brand and tilt the public opinion towards the other brand. there are also paid shills that do this for a particular political party or even at state level.
typical consumer would "research" the product before making final purchasing decision. not necessarily consumers deeply understand the intricacies of the subject but rely on the "professional opinion" or other users opinion instead.
once they come over inflammatory post or realise that the product they are looking to purchase seems to be outdated, lacking or incomplete ( oh, nooos, Canon cameras are for old men, buy Sony !!) they do dig deeper and deeper until the negativity takes over and they seek either alternative opinion or follow the advice of buying into "latest tech" instead.

ideally, these shills need be identified by Admins, posts removed and accounts banned.

Hint: I have not come across a single "Canon shill" posting on Nikon or Sony rumor site in years.
Sony and Nikon shills are on Canon rumor and news sites to discredit Canon as much as it is possible.
this social marketing technique is invasive and needs to be dealt with.

GMCPhotographics said:
Oh dear...to the OP....you follow the MO of yet another Nikon / Sony fanboy with zero photographic experience decides to troll a Canon forum who do have members with years of professional photographic experience. Cameras do not take photographs....photographers do. The difference between a crappy photograph and an award winning photograph is the photographer...not the camera.

Canon are the world leader in DSLR equipment in terms of sales. Nikon and Sony are 2nd and 3rd place and that's irrespective of features or back lit buttons. So to the OP...please either grow up and respect the forum here or go and crawl back under the delusional rock you came from and give us all a break.
 

scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,398
249
UK
www.flickr.com
SecureGSM said:
There is an army of paid shills that are roaming around internet and leave flaming messages and engage in controversial discussion with a single purpose: discredit one brand and tilt the public opinion towards the other brand. there are also paid shills that do this for a particular political party or even at state level.
typical consumer would "research" the product before making final purchasing decision. not necessarily consumers deeply understand the intricacies of the subject but rely on the "professional opinion" or other users opinion instead.
once they come over inflammatory post or realise that the product they are looking to purchase seems to be outdated, lacking or incomplete ( oh, nooos, Canon cameras are for old men, buy Sony !!) they do dig deeper and deeper until the negativity takes over and they seek either alternative opinion or follow the advice of buying into "latest tech" instead.

ideally, these shills need be identified by Admins, posts removed and accounts banned.

Hint: I have not come across a single "Canon shill" posting on Nikon or Sony rumor site in years.
Sony and Nikon shills are on Canon rumor and news sites to discredit Canon as much as it is possible.
this social marketing technique is invasive and needs to be dealt with.

GMCPhotographics said:
Oh dear...to the OP....you follow the MO of yet another Nikon / Sony fanboy with zero photographic experience decides to troll a Canon forum who do have members with years of professional photographic experience. Cameras do not take photographs....photographers do. The difference between a crappy photograph and an award winning photograph is the photographer...not the camera.

Canon are the world leader in DSLR equipment in terms of sales. Nikon and Sony are 2nd and 3rd place and that's irrespective of features or back lit buttons. So to the OP...please either grow up and respect the forum here or go and crawl back under the delusional rock you came from and give us all a break.
It's worth pointing out that, inasmuch as we can know, many of the people who post unrealistically extreme views online in either direction are mostly not paid. There was an actual (empirical as far as it's possible to be in this area) study done a couple of years ago regarding online reviews, and it suggested that mostly, it's not corporate plants, but people who have a strong emotional attachment to brands, and who take it upon themselves to either trash perceived rivals, or to defend their own 'team'. Human nature, I guess... I agree though, that admins should be able to mitigate a lot of this. Clearly a brand new account that is spouting a very tired extreme line (e.g. 'I've been a Canon user for a hundred years but this lack of 1% extra DR in the newest body means I'm selling up and buying a Sony') is likely a troll/sockpuppet/call it what you will, and can be suspended. Websites seem unwilling to use the power they already have to keep hosted discourse functional.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,408
429
119
scyrene said:
SecureGSM said:
There is an army of paid shills that are roaming around internet and leave flaming messages and engage in controversial discussion with a single purpose: discredit one brand and tilt the public opinion towards the other brand. there are also paid shills that do this for a particular political party or even at state level.
typical consumer would "research" the product before making final purchasing decision. not necessarily consumers deeply understand the intricacies of the subject but rely on the "professional opinion" or other users opinion instead.
once they come over inflammatory post or realise that the product they are looking to purchase seems to be outdated, lacking or incomplete ( oh, nooos, Canon cameras are for old men, buy Sony !!) they do dig deeper and deeper until the negativity takes over and they seek either alternative opinion or follow the advice of buying into "latest tech" instead.

ideally, these shills need be identified by Admins, posts removed and accounts banned.

Hint: I have not come across a single "Canon shill" posting on Nikon or Sony rumor site in years.
Sony and Nikon shills are on Canon rumor and news sites to discredit Canon as much as it is possible.
this social marketing technique is invasive and needs to be dealt with.

GMCPhotographics said:
Oh dear...to the OP....you follow the MO of yet another Nikon / Sony fanboy with zero photographic experience decides to troll a Canon forum who do have members with years of professional photographic experience. Cameras do not take photographs....photographers do. The difference between a crappy photograph and an award winning photograph is the photographer...not the camera.

Canon are the world leader in DSLR equipment in terms of sales. Nikon and Sony are 2nd and 3rd place and that's irrespective of features or back lit buttons. So to the OP...please either grow up and respect the forum here or go and crawl back under the delusional rock you came from and give us all a break.
It's worth pointing out that, inasmuch as we can know, many of the people who post unrealistically extreme views online in either direction are mostly not paid. There was an actual (empirical as far as it's possible to be in this area) study done a couple of years ago regarding online reviews, and it suggested that mostly, it's not corporate plants, but people who have a strong emotional attachment to brands, and who take it upon themselves to either trash perceived rivals, or to defend their own 'team'. Human nature, I guess... I agree though, that admins should be able to mitigate a lot of this. Clearly a brand new account that is spouting a very tired extreme line (e.g. 'I've been a Canon user for a hundred years but this lack of 1% extra DR in the newest body means I'm selling up and buying a Sony') is likely a troll/sockpuppet/call it what you will, and can be suspended. Websites seem unwilling to use the power they already have to keep hosted discourse functional.
Agree in that I wish the mods were more active. Of course there is a fine line between censorship and free speech etc, but I feel the pendulum has swung far enough to be detrimental to the forum.

And it isn't just new account holders, there are some long time trolls that come back every time there is a new body release and go on and on and on across threads about how everybody should be shooting with an Olympus or anything that isn't a 'mirror slapper'. These people do not embrace spirited debate they are just trolling.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,016
153
Davidson, NC
Moderating forums is usually not anybody's full time job. It could become as time consuming as one rather easily.

That said, Canon keeps ignoring my request that their cameras be able to load my dishwasher for me. I'm through with them. Selling all my gear and going back to Yashica!

I took my best pictures with a Yashica rangefinder camera with a 45mm lens. I sold that camera after I got my FT-QL.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 28, 2015
3,197
790
Irving, Texas
privatebydesign said:
scyrene said:
SecureGSM said:
There is an army of paid shills that are roaming around internet and leave flaming messages and engage in controversial discussion with a single purpose: discredit one brand and tilt the public opinion towards the other brand. there are also paid shills that do this for a particular political party or even at state level.
typical consumer would "research" the product before making final purchasing decision. not necessarily consumers deeply understand the intricacies of the subject but rely on the "professional opinion" or other users opinion instead.
once they come over inflammatory post or realise that the product they are looking to purchase seems to be outdated, lacking or incomplete ( oh, nooos, Canon cameras are for old men, buy Sony !!) they do dig deeper and deeper until the negativity takes over and they seek either alternative opinion or follow the advice of buying into "latest tech" instead.

ideally, these shills need be identified by Admins, posts removed and accounts banned.

Hint: I have not come across a single "Canon shill" posting on Nikon or Sony rumor site in years.
Sony and Nikon shills are on Canon rumor and news sites to discredit Canon as much as it is possible.
this social marketing technique is invasive and needs to be dealt with.

GMCPhotographics said:
Oh dear...to the OP....you follow the MO of yet another Nikon / Sony fanboy with zero photographic experience decides to troll a Canon forum who do have members with years of professional photographic experience. Cameras do not take photographs....photographers do. The difference between a crappy photograph and an award winning photograph is the photographer...not the camera.

Canon are the world leader in DSLR equipment in terms of sales. Nikon and Sony are 2nd and 3rd place and that's irrespective of features or back lit buttons. So to the OP...please either grow up and respect the forum here or go and crawl back under the delusional rock you came from and give us all a break.
It's worth pointing out that, inasmuch as we can know, many of the people who post unrealistically extreme views online in either direction are mostly not paid. There was an actual (empirical as far as it's possible to be in this area) study done a couple of years ago regarding online reviews, and it suggested that mostly, it's not corporate plants, but people who have a strong emotional attachment to brands, and who take it upon themselves to either trash perceived rivals, or to defend their own 'team'. Human nature, I guess... I agree though, that admins should be able to mitigate a lot of this. Clearly a brand new account that is spouting a very tired extreme line (e.g. 'I've been a Canon user for a hundred years but this lack of 1% extra DR in the newest body means I'm selling up and buying a Sony') is likely a troll/sockpuppet/call it what you will, and can be suspended. Websites seem unwilling to use the power they already have to keep hosted discourse functional.
Agree in that I wish the mods were more active. Of course there is a fine line between censorship and free speech etc, but I feel the pendulum has swung far enough to be detrimental to the forum.

And it isn't just new account holders, there are some long time trolls that come back every time there is a new body release and go on and on and on across threads about how everybody should be shooting with an Olympus or anything that isn't a 'mirror slapper'. These people do not embrace spirited debate they are just trolling.
Well, speech on private property isn't protected by the Constitution anyway. The Constitution restrains government, not the individual. The Constitution doesn't grant rights. It is designed to restrict government from trampling natural rights.

So..... git 'em mods!
 

Dholai

EOS T7i
Feb 5, 2014
53
4
deadwrong,

I did not read all the posts but I did your original one.
Your name said it all- why elaborate!

Dholai
 

zim

EOR R
Oct 18, 2011
1,863
53
What constitution would that be then?

There is no such thing as a bad click on the interest. ::)
 

davidhfe

EOS T7i
Sep 9, 2015
50
15
This forum is crazy. The D850 is the camera I expected the 5D4 to be, at the 5D4's intro price, and everyone regresses into "but canon still leads the market", "the camera doesn't matter", or "here's a picture I took with my old 20D!" as if those statements are all mutually exclusive. Assuming the D850 doesn't have any major service issues (and come on, despite some recent misses Nikon is an incredibly solid brand) its a clear win for this segment/cycle.

No camera maker is going to live or die by one release, but as a 5D4 owner it definitely makes me wonder why Canon either a) could not or b) choose not to deliver 45mp@9fps. I love my 5D4 and would probably buy it again, even today, but it would seriously have made me think about switching systems. (Though probably not–I’m one of those crazies who thinks this is the last major release cycle for mirror box cameras and DPAF will likely continue to be a huge advantage for Canon)
 

Orangutan

EOR R
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
davidhfe said:
makes me wonder why Canon either a) could not or b) choose not to deliver 45mp@9fps
The D850 requires a battery grip for 9fps. Also, many photographers seem to think 45MP is too much to process. Look at it this way: Canon had the 5DS and 5D3 in the market at the same time, so they have a pretty good idea of what the target market wants. I would not be surprised to see a successor to the 5DS, but I'm not at all surprised that they left the MP count lower on the 5D4.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,891
1,245
Canada
CanonFanBoy said:
Well, speech on private property isn't protected by the Constitution anyway. The Constitution restrains government, not the individual. The Constitution doesn't grant rights. It is designed to restrict government from trampling natural rights.

So..... git 'em mods!
It is a Canadian forum, so the US constitution has no bearing...... As Canadians, the moderators are restrained to be overly polite, at least until annoyed to the point that they unleash the killer beavers.......
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
privatebydesign said:
Agree in that I wish the mods were more active...
No. No. No. The last thing we need is to have moderators acting as mind police. If you are so insecure in your choices that you can't handle a little brand criticism that's your problem. If the price of free discussion and debate is a little trolling, so be it.

When people make goofy statements about Canon being doomed or "sadly, the 6dm2 and 5div to be obsolete shortly" there is always a tide of people to refute their arguments. If you don't like the discussions, don't participate. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to read these threads.

If anything, I'd much rather the moderators go after certain long-time participants who resort to constant sarcasm and sniping when challenged. But overall, I most prefer to have the moderators sit back and simply shut down foul, sexist and racist language and leave the debate to the participants.

davidhfe said:
This forum is crazy.
I assume you didn't just now figure that out. :)

davidhfe said:
The D850 is the camera I expected the 5D4 to be, at the 5D4's intro price, and everyone regresses into "but canon still leads the market", "the camera doesn't matter", or "here's a picture I took with my old 20D!" as if those statements are all mutually exclusive. Assuming the D850 doesn't have any major service issues (and come on, despite some recent misses Nikon is an incredibly solid brand) its a clear win for this segment/cycle.

No camera maker is going to live or die by one release, but as a 5D4 owner it definitely makes me wonder why Canon either a) could not or b) choose not to deliver 45mp@9fps. I love my 5D4 and would probably buy it again, even today, but it would seriously have made me think about switching systems. (Though probably not–I’m one of those crazies who thinks this is the last major release cycle for mirror box cameras and DPAF will likely continue to be a huge advantage for Canon)
Legitimate criticism. On the other hand, the D850 is one year newer, so it's understandable that Nikon, with the advantage of being able to see what the competition was offering, took the opportunity to respond aggressively. Good for them and ultimately, good for all of us.

I'm also not going to switch. But as a 1DX II owner, are there things I wish Canon would have done differently and things I'd like to see improved. Definitely.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,891
1,245
Canada
davidhfe said:
No camera maker is going to live or die by one release, but as a 5D4 owner it definitely makes me wonder why Canon either a) could not or b) choose not to deliver 45mp@9fps.
I would postulate that it is because there is a new version of the 5DS coming down the pipe, and that if you want a high megapixel camera, it will probably be around 60Mp.... but almost certainly not at 9Fps (at least in high res mode)