Why has Canon omitted 24p 4K recording in their new cameras such as the EOS M6 Mark II, EOS 90D and EOS RP?

Jul 28, 2015
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I don't think Canon did this to make people buy the higher models, but they did it based on what they perceive that market segment to use most.
In other words (well, my words), if someone is so serious about video that not having 24p in the 90D makes them change systems and spit bile, then they would not be using the 90D for video anyway, especially as the only real complaint seems to be doing serious video editing across platforms.
Canon explained long ago that their research shows most people take video to supplement their stills and to post content on social media. NOT to make award winning documentaries.

So looked at from that POV, it bemuses me why people are getting so worked up about all this.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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If it’s true it’s still common practice.
There are lots of misleading specs out there. I see one whenever I look at the top right corner of my iPhone.

att5ge.jpg
 
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Scenes

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Except that Arri is very clear that's what you're buying. They clearly list in the specs that their 4K UHD mode uses 3200x1800 photosites.

Canon just puts a "*through image processing" in the fine print after their "4K" hoping people don't notice.
Fair point. But it still doesn’t say ‘upscaled’ on UHD 4K Blu-ray.

Honestly when I first read about it being upsampled I was like ‘ick’. But reading on these forums about 70D/80D also being upsampled to reach HD I never noticed and I just published my 360th video shot with them. lol.

The 90D crop mode must shoot ‘full’ 4K then and that’s why people commented on it having more detail in the hands on.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Canon just puts a "*through image processing" in the fine print after their "4K" hoping people don't notice.
I suspect that most people don't notice, and of those who do, most don't care. Note that by 'most people' I mean actual buyers of cameras at this level, not people who complain about camera specs on this forum.
 
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Bigger is better. More is better. 24 is the lowest frame rate. It had to go.

Its fine not to understand another industry, but doubling down on a dumb uninformed take is just silly. Its one thing to criticize Canon for not including something such as ibis or 4k@120fps, but 24fps is such an easy "gimme". Its like including an auto power off in the software, another tool in the toolbox that is easy to implement.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Its fine not to understand another industry, but doubling down on a dumb uninformed take is just silly. Its one thing to criticize Canon for not including something such as ibis or 4k@120fps, but 24fps is such an easy "gimme". Its like including an auto power off in the software, another tool in the toolbox that is easy to implement.
Just for you, I went back and added a <sarcasm> tag to my post.

On topic, of course it's a 'gimme'. It was already on their models, and they removed it from the most recent ones. So why did they do that? Honestly, we can all speculate until the pigs fly over snowbanks in hell, but the salient points are that it's not a feature of these cameras, it was an intentional decision for which there was a reason, and that reason is fundamentally irrelevant. All we need to know is that the feature isn't there, and then we need to determine if that fact affects our purchasing decisions.

Despite that, people will continue to complain. That's the internet for you.
 
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Travel_Photographer

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Technically speaking, movie theaters do not display at 24fps. You would see the flicker. They display at 72fps or faster. As someone correctly mentioned in a previous comment, for a film shot in 24p, you see each of the 24 frames displayed on the screen three times in a row, for a total of 72 "flashes" on screen per second. This eliminates flicker to the human eye. If you took video of the movie screen and played it back in slow motion, you'd see each of the 24 frames displayed 3 individual times. Of course this doesn't change that there are still only 24 distinct "images" being displayed, but technically speaking, you're watching 72fps. Digital Projectors do something similar. You can see more here at the 3:45 minute marker:


If people want to film at 24fps to achieve a choppier look that's fine. As many have stated, 24p was chosen for cost reasons, not for any benefit in the "look" of the movie. We're all used to it now and it remains the standard. That doesn't mean it's the "best".

Shutter angle has no significant relevance in today's digital world with consumer cameras like these. We set the shutter speed. 24p has nice motion blur in each frame when shot around 48fps or 50fps. You can set whatever shutter speed you want in your camera, it doesn't have to be twice the fps to match the old (and irrelevant for these cameras) shutter angle rule. 1/60th of a second shutter speed has about the same motion blur as 24p with a 180 degree shutter angle. I shoot video on my M6 at 60fps with a 1/60th second shutter speed, wide open aperture with a 8-stop ND filter (for sunny days to shoot wide open) on a tiny Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and the results are spectacular. It's the smoothest video you are going to get out of these cameras. You get the same motion blur in each frame as 24p with more than double the number of individual images per second. Again, if someone wants to choose to film in a choppier manner by using 24p, by all means go ahead. There's nothing wrong with that, or with wanting to shoot 24p to maintain similar frame rate with other cameras or people you're collaborating with.

We're also all commenting on an article specifically about the fact that these cameras don't offer 24p. So that's the audience for this discussion. The vast majority of the target customer for this camera don't care about 24p. They want the smoothest, highest quality video of their kids and pets, and they'll get that with 60fps at 1/60th shutter speed.

I have no idea why Canon would have removed 24p from the M6 II since the Mark I had it. Personally I think it wasn't a smart decision, even though I don't use it. But I'm sure they aware that a majority of the customers who buy that camera don't really care that much, and whatever sales of the M6 they lose they consider insignificant. Maybe some of those people will go ahead and buy the more up-market Canon's, maybe some will switch brands. But either way, they've thought it through.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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have no idea why Canon would have removed 24p from the M6 II since the Mark I had it. Personally I think it wasn't a smart decision, even though I don't use it. But I'm sure they aware that a majority of the customers who buy that camera don't really care that much, and whatever sales of the M6 they lose they consider insignificant. Maybe some of those people will go ahead and buy the more up-market Canon's, maybe some will switch brands. But either way, they've thought it through.
^^This
 
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Just for you, I went back and added a <sarcasm> tag to my post.

On topic, of course it's a 'gimme'. It was already on their models, and they removed it from the most recent ones. So why did they do that? Honestly, we can all speculate until the pigs fly over snowbanks in hell, but the salient points are that it's not a feature of these cameras, it was an intentional decision for which there was a reason, and that reason is fundamentally irrelevant. All we need to know is that the feature isn't there, and then we need to determine if that fact affects our purchasing decisions.

Despite that, people will continue to complain. That's the internet for you.

Well now I feel silly, Iactually that that was a serious post :cool:
 
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Technically speaking, movie theaters do not display at 24fps. You would see the flicker. They display at 72fps or faster. As someone correctly mentioned in a previous comment, for a film shot in 24p, you see each of the 24 frames displayed on the screen three times in a row, for a total of 72 "flashes" on screen per second. This eliminates flicker to the human eye. If you took video of the movie screen and played it back in slow motion, you'd see each of the 24 frames displayed 3 individual times. Of course this doesn't change that there are still only 24 distinct "images" being displayed, but technically speaking, you're watching 72fps. Digital Projectors do something similar. You can see more here at the 3:45 minute marker:


If people want to film at 24fps to achieve a choppier look that's fine. As many have stated, 24p was chosen for cost reasons, not for any benefit in the "look" of the movie. We're all used to it now and it remains the standard. That doesn't mean it's the "best".

Shutter angle has no significant relevance in today's digital world with consumer cameras like these. We set the shutter speed. 24p has nice motion blur in each frame when shot around 48fps or 50fps. You can set whatever shutter speed you want in your camera, it doesn't have to be twice the fps to match the old (and irrelevant for these cameras) shutter angle rule. 1/60th of a second shutter speed has about the same motion blur as 24p with a 180 degree shutter angle. I shoot video on my M6 at 60fps with a 1/60th second shutter speed, wide open aperture with a 8-stop ND filter (for sunny days to shoot wide open) on a tiny Zhiyun Crane M2 gimbal and the results are spectacular. It's the smoothest video you are going to get out of these cameras. You get the same motion blur in each frame as 24p with more than double the number of individual images per second. Again, if someone wants to choose to film in a choppier manner by using 24p, by all means go ahead. There's nothing wrong with that, or with wanting to shoot 24p to maintain similar frame rate with other cameras or people you're collaborating with.

We're also all commenting on an article specifically about the fact that these cameras don't offer 24p. So that's the audience for this discussion. The vast majority of the target customer for this camera don't care about 24p. They want the smoothest, highest quality video of their kids and pets, and they'll get that with 60fps at 1/60th shutter speed.

I have no idea why Canon would have removed 24p from the M6 II since the Mark I had it. Personally I think it wasn't a smart decision, even though I don't use it. But I'm sure they aware that a majority of the customers who buy that camera don't really care that much, and whatever sales of the M6 they lose they consider insignificant. Maybe some of those people will go ahead and buy the more up-market Canon's, maybe some will switch brands. But either way, they've thought it through.
I must have missed the spec where the M6II can shoot 4K60P. ;) As far as I know it's only "4K" 24P that's missing.

Open shutter can have an interesting look but I'm not sure it replaces 24P in a meaningful way and you generate a lot more data for editing.
 
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I don't see it stated anywhere if it is true it seems like shady marketing to me. Source: https://www.eoshd.com/2019/08/canon-and-sony-aps-c-flagships-disappoint-buy-the-fuji-x-t30-instead/
I just looked at Andrew's post on EOSHD and I think I know what he is trying to say. The 90d/M6 are not supersampling their 4K to get a higher detail 4K image. They are just pixel binning or line skipping a sample of 3840x2160 photosites to get a 4K image. The resulting perceived resolution is less than the actual resolution of the video file. It has been Canon's practice to do this with its 4K and 1080p DSLR video since the beginning. As far as I know, the only Canon DSLR's that don't do this are the 1DC in S35 mode and the EOS-R in it's cropped 1080p mode. This isn't shady marketing, it's just standard Canon engineering.
 
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