300mm f/2.8L IS II vs. 400mm f/4 DO IS II ---> price difference

[candc]

Thanks for the advice everybody! After further research, I opted out of the 400 DO and got the 300L instead. For longer reach, I also purchased the 500L. So should be set there. And to add to the trifecta, I went ahead and bought the 35L, since I've been wanting that one for a while lol

I have the same two big lenses, plus the 100-400L II. Currently the 300 is not getting much use - if I want maximum power I take the 500, and if I want portability and versatility I take the 100-400. The 300 gets kind of squeezed out.

There are situations where the 300/2.8 is perfect, and paired with the 2x III it did a great job for the three years I owned it before getting the 500. It's also a bit lighter of course which could sometimes be a factor. Overall though, I think the 500 and 100-400 will continue to be used much more.

An interesting question for me is what would I do if I had to cut all that down to one lens, with as much reach and image quality as possible but without the size of the 500? The 400 DO II would have to be a very strong contender. I'd lose the close up capability of the 100-400, but as a fairly light long lens it looks superb.

The doii's place in the lineup gets questioned. I suppose that's understandable. Its not the fastest, longest, smallest, or cheapest and people generally want things that are at the top of their category in some regard. I think the doii has about the perfect spec/performance/iq mix. Its what I use most of the time and what I would keep if I had to bet rid of everything else.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I think the DO's main problem is that unlike other lenses in its price range, it's a compromise lens - you've got the 2.8 version sitting above it and providing better quality. And seen that way, 6K is a LOT to pay for such a lens. Whereas the 200 f2, the 300 2.8 II (both less expensive) are best in class, and you know you are getting top quality for your hard-earned $$$. Same with the 500 F4 and 600 F4.

Having said all that, the lens certainly has its niche...unlike the 2.8, this one is handholdable and portable which is part of its (potential) appeal to me...

 

[Ming-Tzu]

Yeah, the reason why I decided against the 400 DO II was the odd looking bokeh when the background was complex. Also, I knew I wanted the 300 so my logic was that the 400mm FL would be kind of too close to the 300, so my next decision point was between the 500mm and 600mm. My choice of the 500L boiled down to being able to potentially handhold and portability. I believe the 600mm most definitely needs to be on a tripod/monopod, whereas the 500mm can maybe do without one. Will test it out when received!

 

[Jack Douglas]

How is an authorised USA Canon dealer able to sell at such a discount?

Alan, I had the same thought and checked into it by contacting CPW. I believe it goes like this since lower prices are forbidden from advertising. They have their sellers that are willing to discount. When you are serious about buying they put you in contact with the authorized Canon distributor and then the buyer and seller consummate the sale. Presumably, the increased sales volume allows for the discount. When it's a Canadian store shipping to the US there isn't even any tax according to buyers who have given their reviews. No coupons etc. Since big whites never go on sale this is one way to get a discount.

Now, anyone out there - is there any risk? CPW says no.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

Yeah, the reason why I decided against the 400 DO II was the odd looking bokeh when the background was complex. Also, I knew I wanted the 300 so my logic was that the 400mm FL would be kind of too close to the 300, so my next decision point was between the 500mm and 600mm. My choice of the 500L boiled down to being able to potentially handhold and portability. I believe the 600mm most definitely needs to be on a tripod/monopod, whereas the 500mm can maybe do without one. Will test it out when received!

In my case I've been quite happy packing the 300 2.8 II X2 III (weight) with the 6D. Not too often do I use X1.4. Out hiking virtually anytime I had it on I wished for X2, even just to allow more accurate focusing on distant birds. If not for the 70-200, I'd part with X1.4.

So that's telling me 420 is seldom enough for birds. Now since the 500 is more pricey by far than my 300, which was equivalent to about $US 4500 when I bought it, I really can't fork out for that, as much as I'd love to have that pair.

Thus, the 400 DO enters the equation since it's lighter and within reach cost-wise. 600mm is on the edge for all the bird photos I've done with a typical crop leaving significantly less than half the 6D frame. I couldn't bring myself to spring for the 7D2 and went for a used 1D4 instead, which whetted my appetite for the 1DX II. This confirmed that I really needed better high ISO capability and that 10 fps was adequate - sold it in anticipation of the 1DX II and now the reach aspect of 5D4 30 MP's is gnawing at me. I must be as nuts as any CR member right now, with all kinds of crazy ideas popping into my head, most of them very expensive ideas!!

Sadly, my inheritance of a couple years ago is more of less gone. Life is so terrible when you can't afford all the goodies!

Jack

 

[BeenThere]

Yeah, the reason why I decided against the 400 DO II was the odd looking bokeh when the background was complex. Also, I knew I wanted the 300 so my logic was that the 400mm FL would be kind of too close to the 300, so my next decision point was between the 500mm and 600mm. My choice of the 500L boiled down to being able to potentially handhold and portability. I believe the 600mm most definitely needs to be on a tripod/monopod, whereas the 500mm can maybe do without one. Will test it out when received!

In my case I've been quite happy packing the 300 2.8 II X2 III (weight) with the 6D. Not too often do I use X1.4. Out hiking virtually anytime I had it on I wished for X2, even just to allow more accurate focusing on distant birds. If not for the 70-200, I'd part with X1.4.

So that's telling me 420 is seldom enough for birds. Now since the 500 is more pricey by far than my 300, which was equivalent to about $US 4500 when I bought it, I really can't fork out for that, as much as I'd love to have that pair.

Thus, the 400 DO enters the equation since it's lighter and within reach cost-wise. 600mm is on the edge for all the bird photos I've done with a typical crop leaving significantly less than half the 6D frame. I couldn't bring myself to spring for the 7D2 and went for a used 1D4 instead, which whetted my appetite for the 1DX II. This confirmed that I really needed better high ISO capability and that 10 fps was adequate - sold it in anticipation of the 1DX II and now the reach aspect of 5D4 30 MP's is gnawing at me. I must be as nuts as any CR member right now, with all kinds of crazy ideas popping into my head, most of them very expensive ideas!!

Sadly, my inheritance of a couple years ago is more of less gone. Life is so terrible when you can't afford all the goodies!

Jack

Kinda reminds me of that country song " I ain't rich, but I damn sure want to be".

 

[BeenThere]

I have to say, that my 500 does not get out much any more since I got the DO II. For me, it's the hand holdability for all my bird shooting that is most important. Using the 400 DO with or without 1.4x on a 7D II is a near perfect combination. Some more ramblings about shooting this combo here:

http://www.ronbrunsvold.com/tools/canon-400mm-f4-do-ii-lens.html

I really like to hand hold for birds because of the flexibility I have to move fast and the tracking of BIF shots when a bird is jinking in unpredictable ways.

 

[candc]

How is an authorised USA Canon dealer able to sell at such a discount?

Alan, I had the same thought and checked into it by contacting CPW. I believe it goes like this since lower prices are forbidden from advertising. They have their sellers that are willing to discount. When you are serious about buying they put you in contact with the authorized Canon distributor and then the buyer and seller consummate the sale. Presumably, the increased sales volume allows for the discount. When it's a Canadian store shipping to the US there isn't even any tax according to buyers who have given their reviews. No coupons etc. Since big whites never go on sale this is one way to get a discount.

Now, anyone out there - is there any risk? CPW says no.

Jack

I've bought several things through cpw "street price". no issues to report. same rebates, warranty, and return policy. canon canada raised the prices a while ago so i don't think you will save any money that way anymore.

 

[candc]

I think the DO's main problem is that unlike other lenses in its price range, it's a compromise lens - you've got the 2.8 version sitting above it and providing better quality. And seen that way, 6K is a LOT to pay for such a lens. Whereas the 200 f2, the 300 2.8 II (both less expensive) are best in class, and you know you are getting top quality for your hard-earned $$$. Same with the 500 F4 and 600 F4.

Having said all that, the lens certainly has its niche...unlike the 2.8, this one is handholdable and portable which is part of its (potential) appeal to me...

all the big whites have excellent iq an performance. i wouldn't get too hung up using that for the deciding factor.

lens rentals did a comparison between the 300ii and doii. their conclusion is that the doii at f/4 is sharper than the 300ii is at f/2.8 but the 300ii is sharper when stopped down to f/4.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/01/more-canon-400m-do-ii-comparisons/

they just did a comparison of all the lenses in the 400 range. that thread is running around here as well. that comparison concludes that the doii is as good as the 400 2.8 in the central area but the 400 2.8 is sharper at the edges. the doii is half the size and weight of the 2.8 lens. the doii is also $3100 less so you can get it and the upcoming 5div for about the same price as the big lens.

 

[Jack Douglas]

How is an authorised USA Canon dealer able to sell at such a discount?

Alan, I had the same thought and checked into it by contacting CPW. I believe it goes like this since lower prices are forbidden from advertising. They have their sellers that are willing to discount. When you are serious about buying they put you in contact with the authorized Canon distributor and then the buyer and seller consummate the sale. Presumably, the increased sales volume allows for the discount. When it's a Canadian store shipping to the US there isn't even any tax according to buyers who have given their reviews. No coupons etc. Since big whites never go on sale this is one way to get a discount.

Now, anyone out there - is there any risk? CPW says no.

Jack

I've bought several things through cpw "street price". no issues to report. same rebates, warranty, and return policy. canon canada raised the prices a while ago so i don't think you will save any money that way anymore.

Yes the $CDN took a big hit and that killed the advantage to US buyers. However, the expensive gear never gets sale priced and CPW lines you up with a dealer who will discount. I was quoted $7300 vs. $8000 list on the 1DX II which is still not peanuts. The 5D4 would not get discounted for some time if I go that route.

Because the 1DX II has 20 MP like my 6D, the 5D4 30MP is hard to ignore. So, I started looking at lens options that would get me longer than 600.

The 500 is quite a bit heavier and longer and I just can't see me hiking with that and it's expensive. 500 X1.4 is quite a bit better than 300 X2 but 500 X2 doesn't fare too well being lower IQ than my present 300 X2. That makes the 700 a very expensive upgrade.

The 400 DO is fine at 560 but not much better than 300 X2 and not impressive at 800. So if 800 loses IQ what's the point of that upgrade. That leaves me back where I started, thinking I should be satisfied with 300 X2. The 100-400 II is a nice handy lens but I think my 70 - 200 is OK with converters, kind of filling the lower gap and also 300 2.8 is a killer. That leaves me thinking I need 30 MP's for cropping in order to better my situation or 50 MP's, but I want more than 5 fps (6D 4.5 is not enough).

So it's 1DX II in a couple weeks or wait for a 5D4, which just my luck won't have illuminated AF points.

Jack

 

[privatebydesign]

How is an authorised USA Canon dealer able to sell at such a discount?

Alan, I had the same thought and checked into it by contacting CPW. I believe it goes like this since lower prices are forbidden from advertising. They have their sellers that are willing to discount. When you are serious about buying they put you in contact with the authorized Canon distributor and then the buyer and seller consummate the sale. Presumably, the increased sales volume allows for the discount. When it's a Canadian store shipping to the US there isn't even any tax according to buyers who have given their reviews. No coupons etc. Since big whites never go on sale this is one way to get a discount.

Now, anyone out there - is there any risk? CPW says no.

Jack

I've bought several things through CPW, no risk at all, it is 100% above board.

I got my 11-24 through them and it came from Canada, I broke it and sent it to Canon USA and they fixed it under warranty for free!

I won't buy anything Canon without emailing Gordon at CPW to find out if there are any deals going.

 

[Jack Douglas]

How is an authorised USA Canon dealer able to sell at such a discount?

Alan, I had the same thought and checked into it by contacting CPW. I believe it goes like this since lower prices are forbidden from advertising. They have their sellers that are willing to discount. When you are serious about buying they put you in contact with the authorized Canon distributor and then the buyer and seller consummate the sale. Presumably, the increased sales volume allows for the discount. When it's a Canadian store shipping to the US there isn't even any tax according to buyers who have given their reviews. No coupons etc. Since big whites never go on sale this is one way to get a discount.

Now, anyone out there - is there any risk? CPW says no.

Jack

I've bought several things through CPW, no risk at all, it is 100% above board.

I got my 11-24 through them and it came from Canada, I broke it and sent it to Canon USA and they fixed it under warranty for free!

I won't buy anything Canon without emailing Gordon at CPW to find out if there are any deals going.

That's reassuring, and thanks for the feedback. It's highly likely that's what I'll be doing.

Jack

 

[bholliman]

How is an authorised USA Canon dealer able to sell at such a discount?

Alan, I had the same thought and checked into it by contacting CPW. I believe it goes like this since lower prices are forbidden from advertising. They have their sellers that are willing to discount. When you are serious about buying they put you in contact with the authorized Canon distributor and then the buyer and seller consummate the sale. Presumably, the increased sales volume allows for the discount. When it's a Canadian store shipping to the US there isn't even any tax according to buyers who have given their reviews. No coupons etc. Since big whites never go on sale this is one way to get a discount.

Now, anyone out there - is there any risk? CPW says no.

Jack

I've bought several things through CPW, no risk at all, it is 100% above board.

I got my 11-24 through them and it came from Canada, I broke it and sent it to Canon USA and they fixed it under warranty for free!

I won't buy anything Canon without emailing Gordon at CPW to find out if there are any deals going.

+1 I've purchased my last 4 lenses and 1 body through the CPW Street Price program and it works great. Easy process and no warranty issues or other hassles. Highly recommended.

 

[Steve Balcombe]

Thanks for the advice everybody! After further research, I opted out of the 400 DO and got the 300L instead. For longer reach, I also purchased the 500L. So should be set there. And to add to the trifecta, I went ahead and bought the 35L, since I've been wanting that one for a while lol

I have the same two big lenses, plus the 100-400L II. Currently the 300 is not getting much use - if I want maximum power I take the 500, and if I want portability and versatility I take the 100-400. The 300 gets kind of squeezed out.

There are situations where the 300/2.8 is perfect, and paired with the 2x III it did a great job for the three years I owned it before getting the 500. It's also a bit lighter of course which could sometimes be a factor. Overall though, I think the 500 and 100-400 will continue to be used much more.

An interesting question for me is what would I do if I had to cut all that down to one lens, with as much reach and image quality as possible but without the size of the 500? The 400 DO II would have to be a very strong contender. I'd lose the close up capability of the 100-400, but as a fairly light long lens it looks superb.

The doii's place in the lineup gets questioned. I suppose that's understandable. Its not the fastest, longest, smallest, or cheapest and people generally want things that are at the top of their category in some regard.

Not at all, I wanted the best fit for my needs. So I have the 500/4 not the 600/4; a 300/2.8 not a 400/2.8; and a 100-400L II not a 200-400/4L 1.4x. (When I bought my 300 there was no 400 DO II.)

I think the doii has about the perfect spec/performance/iq mix. Its what I use most of the time and what I would keep if I had to bet rid of everything else.

Exactly - best fit for your needs.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Of course my final decision will be after tomorrow but it's looking like I'll go 5D4 rather than 1DX II. This would give me a little financial wiggle room to also get the 400 DO. I don't prefer tripods when I'm out and about and the 300 X2 has been OK in that regard so a 400 DO will be fine. Not sure if I will keep the 300 since that's a lot of money tied up if it's not getting used. I think my 70-200 2.8 II with converters would fill the void fairly well.

What concerns me is that 400 X1.4 looses me a little FL but IQ will be great, so that's fine. However, I'd really be hoping that the 400 X2 would be very close to as good as the 300 X2 has been, otherwise the 800mm advantage of the 400 would not be working in my favor and I might as well just shoot 600.

I do not want to pack 500 so that's out. Those who actually have, or have had, both or just the 400, what's the consensus?

Was reading Art Morris comments and he's real fan of the lens.

Jack

 

[tron]

Of course my final decision will be after tomorrow but it's looking like I'll go 5D4 rather than 1DX II. This would give me a little financial wiggle room to also get the 400 DO. I don't prefer tripods when I'm out and about and the 300 X2 has been OK in that regard so a 400 DO will be fine. Not sure if I will keep the 300 since that's a lot of money tied up if it's not getting used. I think my 70-200 2.8 II with converters would fill the void fairly well.

What concerns me is that 400 X1.4 looses me a little FL but IQ will be great, so that's fine. However, I'd really be hoping that the 400 X2 would be very close to as good as the 300 X2 has been, otherwise the 800mm advantage of the 400 would not be working in my favor and I might as well just shoot 600.

I do not want to pack 500 so that's out. Those who actually have, or have had, both or just the 400, what's the consensus?

Was reading Art Morris comments and he's real fan of the lens.

Jack

hello Jack. I do have both. I use the 500 with my 5D3 mostly with static non-bird subjects.

Regarding bird photos:

I have used 500 with 7D2 alot and the results were very good. Half of this shooting had been done from the comfort of my car by resting the lens on the windows. Some shooting had been done with 500 7D2 and 1.4xiii. The only cases where this was successful was when using a tripod.

In some cases 500 had been used handheld with a 7D2 (mostly in a boat). However that was putting a lot of strain to my left hand so I often reverted to 7D2 and 400 DO II combinations. The result was equally sharp and the set was handholdable. I was regretting some loss in FL but my left hand was coping OK.

To sum up, IQ is excellent, the lens is handholdable so there is no way you will regret it. I had tried very few shots with 1.4XIII. I didn't see any problem in IQ. But I have not tried 2XIII at all. No comments on this. Even so 400 + 1.4X must focus faster than 300 + 2X.

 

[arbitrage]

If trying to choose between these two lenses reading Arash's review is a good start. Basically if you don't need 300mm at 2.8 I'd go for the 400DOII.

http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/canon-400mm-f4-is-do-mark-ii-review-battle-of-the-light-lenses/

 

[Jack Douglas]

tron and arbitrage, thanks for the feedback.

I have the 300 2.8 II so it would be a matter of does it get used enough once a 400 DO II appears cause that's quite a bit of money (for me anyway ). Alan F and I are two people among probably quite a few others who have always been fairly pleased with the 300 X2, excepting it's rather poor AF speed.

I managed by being sure I didn't hit AF until a bird was under the AF point but sometimes you wander and lose it and then it was hopeless (6D and 1D4 not as bad). I shot a fair number of eagle BIF with that extender combo and had pretty good luck.

What is happening to me is I don't want to go heavier than 300 X2 hiking but I'm always cropping a fair bit more than I'd prefer. If 400 X2 AF was as good as Arash and Arthur M suggest I'd be a happy camper since that would put me at 800. Of course that presupposes that the IQ would be similar to 300 X2.

I'm confident that with a 5D4 (assuming) and 400 X2, that my cropping would not be as much of a problem since right now it's a borderline problem. I often just sit and let birds visit me rather than jogging along, so I'm generally on the edge of needed reach. Make sense?

I'd probably be satisfied with the 1DX II (20MP) if I had the 400 but I can't/won't afford both of them - even the 5D4 is stretching my finances.

Jack

 

[tron]

tron and arbitrage, thanks for the feedback.

I have the 300 2.8 II so it would be a matter of does it get used enough once a 400 DO II appears cause that's quite a bit of money (for me anyway ). Alan F and I are two people among probably quite a few others who have always been fairly pleased with the 300 X2, excepting it's rather poor AF speed.

I managed by being sure I didn't hit AF until a bird was under the AF point but sometimes you wander and lose it and then it was hopeless (6D and 1D4 not as bad). I shot a fair number of eagle BIF with that extender combo and had pretty good luck.

What is happening to me is I don't want to go heavier than 300 X2 hiking but I'm always cropping a fair bit more than I'd prefer. If 400 X2 AF was as good as Arash and Arthur M suggest I'd be a happy camper since that would put me at 800. Of course that presupposes that the IQ would be similar to 300 X2.

I'm confident that with a 5D4 (assuming) and 400 X2, that my cropping would not be as much of a problem since right now it's a borderline problem. I often just sit and let birds visit me rather than jogging along, so I'm generally on the edge of needed reach. Make sense?

I'd probably be satisfied with the 1DX II (20MP) if I had the 400 but I can't/won't afford both of them - even the 5D4 is stretching my finances.

Jack

Alan is very experienced and I value his opinion a lot. He likes his 5DsR very much. So this could be a solution...

 

[Skatol]

tron and arbitrage, thanks for the feedback.

I have the 300 2.8 II so it would be a matter of does it get used enough once a 400 DO II appears cause that's quite a bit of money (for me anyway ). Alan F and I are two people among probably quite a few others who have always been fairly pleased with the 300 X2, excepting it's rather poor AF speed.

I managed by being sure I didn't hit AF until a bird was under the AF point but sometimes you wander and lose it and then it was hopeless (6D and 1D4 not as bad). I shot a fair number of eagle BIF with that extender combo and had pretty good luck.

What is happening to me is I don't want to go heavier than 300 X2 hiking but I'm always cropping a fair bit more than I'd prefer. If 400 X2 AF was as good as Arash and Arthur M suggest I'd be a happy camper since that would put me at 800. Of course that presupposes that the IQ would be similar to 300 X2.

I'm confident that with a 5D4 (assuming) and 400 X2, that my cropping would not be as much of a problem since right now it's a borderline problem. I often just sit and let birds visit me rather than jogging along, so I'm generally on the edge of needed reach. Make sense?

I'd probably be satisfied with the 1DX II (20MP) if I had the 400 but I can't/won't afford both of them - even the 5D4 is stretching my finances.

Jack

Alan is very experienced and I value his opinion a lot. He likes his 5DsR very much. So this could be a solution...

I would second the 5Ds/R route. I went from using a 1DMIV to the sR and haven't looked back. There are few instances where the extra 5fps would have been nice but those are minimal. Forces me to practice my timing. I also tend to shoot far fewer frames and come out with more keepers. F/8 at all focus points is tempting but for me the only combination that would benefit would be the 600 with 2x TC. Tough times to have all of these incredible options. Decisions, decisions :-\