300mm f/2.8L IS II vs. 400mm f/4 DO IS II ---> price difference

[AlanF]

Jack
I think the 800 is significantly sharper than 560mm on your FF. There is a significant difference in exposure between the two, which a first sight favours the brighter 560 image. But, if you look at the craters at the bottom at about 5.30 on the clock, you can see the 800m has resolved the pimple in the middle of some craters and the 560mm hasn't.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Alan, you mean there is hope? After a killer day, granite and garden shoveling dirt, then supper at 9 PM, a hand held 800 mm shot of the moon doesn't really stand a chance to be done well. I will try again soon with a tripod and better settings.

Jack

 

[AlanF]

Jack - I think the FF-larger pixel results are very encouraging. A really important factor is for me is that the DO has more consistent AF.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Jack - I think the FF-larger pixel results are very encouraging. A really important factor is for me is that the DO has more consistent AF.

The AF is a big one for me too but 800 was the draw. 560 is great even on the 6D.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

I think I'm going to be OK with 400 X2 after finding these dragon flies and having time to manually focus reasonably well. Focusing with 800 hand held is challenging if you're unsteady like me!

ISO 1250 F8 1/1250 6D

Jack

 

[AlanF]

Get yourself a decent body to put this fabulous lens on!

 

[Jack Douglas]

Get yourself a decent body to put this fabulous lens on!

Alan, I will in due course and I promise not later than April 1, 2017. It will be 5D4 or 1DX II after I fuss and fume about the compromises. It works very well with X1.4 in the mean time on my good old 6D. I'm pretty excited about having the lens for sure.

Jack

 

[candc]

Get yourself a decent body to put this fabulous lens on!

Alan, I will in due course and I promise not later than April 1, 2017. It will be 5D4 or 1DX II after I fuss and fume about the compromises. It works very well with X1.4 in the mean time on my good old 6D. I'm pretty excited about having the lens for sure.

Jack

In the meantime maybe you can pick up a 7dii to use it on. It will do everything you need for bird shooting without much need for extenders.

 

[Jack Douglas]

candc, that's a good suggestion but my needs presently are minimal. Next spring it's an entirely different matter. Meanwhile , restraint.

Jack

 

[AlanF]

Jack
I borrowed a 5DIII to compare results. The good news for you is that the 400mm DO II + 2xTC performs very well on it and resolves significantly more than with the 1.4xTC.
I would judge:
400mm DO II on 5DS R is sharper than 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DS R

I really regret selling my 5DIII, but it means I'll get a 5D IV when the time is right.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Jack
I borrowed a 5DIII to compare results. The good news for you is that the 400mm DO II + 2xTC performs very well on it and resolves significantly more than with the 1.4xTC.
I would judge:
400mm DO II on 5DS R is sharper than 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DS R

I really regret selling my 5DIII, but it means I'll get a 5D IV when the time is right.

Alan, I'm so sorry you'll have to get a 5D4. My condolences.

Thanks for you assessments. Now you can do some bloodhound sniffing on why the 5D4 would be better for me than the 1DX II. Probably it'll depend on how 30 MP has affected IQ and how close AF is.

Jack

 

[bholliman]

Jack
I borrowed a 5DIII to compare results. The good news for you is that the 400mm DO II + 2xTC performs very well on it and resolves significantly more than with the 1.4xTC.
I would judge:
400mm DO II on 5DS R is sharper than 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DS R

I really regret selling my 5DIII, but it means I'll get a 5D IV when the time is right.

Hi Alan,

I'm a little surprised at your results. I don't have a 400 DO II, but with the 300 f/2.8 II and TC's I find my 5DsR consistently sharper than my 6D (slightly larger pixels and better sensor than the 5DIII) in all combinations. Do you think the poor performance with the 5DsR is just with the 400 DO II?

My comparisons were all at f/6.3 or lower, so diffraction not a factor with the 5DsR in my side-by-side testing. I normally shoot my 2x III at f/6.3 and 1.4x III at f/4.5 on the 300 f/2.8.

 

[AlanF]

arbitrage also reports in this thread that the 400 + 1.4x and 2xTCs have similar resolution on the 5DS R. I find with the 300/2.8 II that there is a greater increase in resolution from 1.4x to 2xTC on the 5DIII than 5DS R, but the 2xTC on the 5DS R has the best resolution, in agreement with you.

The-digital-picture comparisons of the 400mm DO II and 300mm/2.8 II with 2xTCs on FF and 7DII show the relative degradation at f/8 on the crop, which has the same size pixels as the 5DS R. So, what I find is not unique.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=962&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=2&LensComp=739&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=0


http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=962&Camera=963&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=0&LensComp=739&CameraComp=963&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=2

 

[AlanF]

Jack
My local dealer has a 5DIV coming in tomorrow. Maybe I'll be able to tell you about it and the 400 DO II?

 

[arthurbikemad]

Jack
I borrowed a 5DIII to compare results. The good news for you is that the 400mm DO II + 2xTC performs very well on it and resolves significantly more than with the 1.4xTC.
I would judge:
400mm DO II on 5DS R is sharper than 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DS R

I really regret selling my 5DIII, but it means I'll get a 5D IV when the time is right.

Alan, I'm so sorry you'll have to get a 5D4. My condolences.

Thanks for you assessments. Now you can do some bloodhound sniffing on why the 5D4 would be better for me than the 1DX II. Probably it'll depend on how 30 MP has affected IQ and how close AF is.

Jack

The last month I have been shooting 1DX2 and 5D3 back to back, there are many advantages of the 1DX2 that stack up well against the 5D3 for example, but I have to be honest and say I think pixel peeping wise the 5D3 seems to have the slight advantage, I do feel I can see the slightly higher MP count of the 5D! Now saying that do take into account that ALL of the many other factors can result in a much lower hit rate with the 5D3, such as AF, ISO noise, FPS and so on, I know you have talked many times about cropping and of late I have been shooting small song birds, a new-ish subject for me but cropping even with my 500/4Mk2+1.4@700mm is a big factor even when only say 8-15m from the birds! Its here I have found that pixel count does matter, I find I can take a perfectly good photograph but end up peeping and comparing the two bodies, ridiculous I know. Sadly my 1DX2 has now gone back as has excessive dust again in the PP housing, you cant clean it from there so I am now in a position to get my money back and decide what the hell I am going to do, thing is the 1DX2 is SUCH a weapon of a camera its hard to not have it in the bag, the AF and FPS just blows any other camera away...BUT then there is the matter of 20MP.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Jack
My local dealer has a 5DIV coming in tomorrow. Maybe I'll be able to tell you about it and the 400 DO II?

Well, I almost replied previously that you should get one right away so that there was ample time for me to reap the reward!

I presume you'll be just test driving??

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

Jack
I borrowed a 5DIII to compare results. The good news for you is that the 400mm DO II + 2xTC performs very well on it and resolves significantly more than with the 1.4xTC.
I would judge:
400mm DO II on 5DS R is sharper than 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DIII
400mm DO II + 1.4xTC 5DS R is similar to 400mm DO II + 2xTC on 5DS R

I really regret selling my 5DIII, but it means I'll get a 5D IV when the time is right.

Alan, I'm so sorry you'll have to get a 5D4. My condolences.

Thanks for you assessments. Now you can do some bloodhound sniffing on why the 5D4 would be better for me than the 1DX II. Probably it'll depend on how 30 MP has affected IQ and how close AF is.

Jack

The last month I have been shooting 1DX2 and 5D3 back to back, there are many advantages of the 1DX2 that stack up well against the 5D3 for example, but I have to be honest and say I think pixel peeping wise the 5D3 seems to have the slight advantage, I do feel I can see the slightly higher MP count of the 5D! Now saying that do take into account that ALL of the many other factors can result in a much lower hit rate with the 5D3, such as AF, ISO noise, FPS and so on, I know you have talked many times about cropping and of late I have been shooting small song birds, a new-ish subject for me but cropping even with my 500/4Mk2+1.4@700mm is a big factor even when only say 8-15m from the birds! Its here I have found that pixel count does matter, I find I can take a perfectly good photograph but end up peeping and comparing the two bodies, ridiculous I know. Sadly my 1DX2 has now gone back as has excessive dust again in the PP housing, you cant clean it from there so I am now in a position to get my money back and decide what the hell I am going to do, thing is the 1DX2 is SUCH a weapon of a camera its hard to not have it in the bag, the AF and FPS just blows any other camera away...BUT then there is the matter of 20MP.

Thanks for this candid report. You did pick up on my concern repeated so many times! I know we are not alone in feeling this concern - it would indeed be extravagant to have both cameras for precisely the same purpose. Who wants to hike with two heavy bodies and probably also carry two heavy lenses to make use of both cameras rather than swapping lenses?

For me, my 3 year history with 300 and converters tells me that I need to crop more than I need fps, as much as I'd like all the features/goodies of whatever camera. The 6D tells me I need more than 4.5 fps and that 7 could probably do the trick (previous Nikon was 6). In other words some of us end up between a rock and a hard place. So, what to do??

We need a 400 DO II owner who has the 1DX II and the 5D4 to carefully delineate the upside and downside relating to this dilemma.

I suggest Eldar should buy the 5D4 and help us out! Or, equally good, Alan should buy both.

Jack

 

[arbitrage]

Arash is currently evaluating the 5D4 against his 1DX2. He mainly shoots the 600II and 400DOII. He has posted some initial comments on this thread on FM Forums. Read down for his replies to some of our questions on 5D4 vs 1DX2. He will be doing a full review once he has put more time in with the 5D4.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1449968

 

[AlanF]

Collected the 5D IV this morning. It's a pain just having DP 4.5 as the only available software. What I can say at this stage is that the focus with the 400 DO II + 2xTC is very snappy and consistent. There is an increase in resolution on going from 400 -> 560 -> 800mm by about what is expected, whereas the 5DS R maxes out at 560mm. But, the 5DS R at 560mm looks sharper than the 5D IV at 800mm. For static photos, the 5DS R will beat out the 5D IV for "reach". As mooted by Arash in the fredmiranda thread, AF is significantly better with the 5D IV and it is faster, which will be better for birds in flight, and the 1DX II is better still. But, Arash is a BIF specialist and I am more of a sitting duck shooter.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Arash is currently evaluating the 5D4 against his 1DX2. He mainly shoots the 600II and 400DOII. He has posted some initial comments on this thread on FM Forums. Read down for his replies to some of our questions on 5D4 vs 1DX2. He will be doing a full review once he has put more time in with the 5D4.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1449968

Thanks for this!

Jack