42MP Sony sensor released in another camera... **and it's not a Nikon**

[ahsanford]

I would love to have one. FF sensor + my favorite 35mm focal length + RAW in small body I can take with me even when I'm not considering taking my photo bag with DSLR would be amazing. But not for $3.3k - I will have to wait few years before compacts with such features get into "affordable" category.

As there is no lens pullthrough for products like this, fixed lens FF mirrorless will not get affordable until there is competition. Right now there is just this camera and... the Leica Q, I believe. Sony is tenting the price up because there are no realistic and affordable alternatives.

Keep in mind that they could do the same in interchangeable lens FF mirrorless (i.e. the A7 brand), as only the crazy pricey Leica M stuff does the same. But clearly Sony considers Canon/Nikon FF SLR as direct competition and wants to flip those users, get them to buy lenses, etc. So the A7 prices (other than those with that latest 42 MP sensor) are competitive.

The one wildcard with the R1XR II is, of course, that lens. We really don't know how much it costs by itself. I'm guessing it isn't cheap to build b/c of that leaf shutter setup and the fact that volumes must be crazy low (as it only works on these fixed lens rigs).

- A

 

[e_honda]

One advantage of the Fuji is that you can purchase conversion lenses that converts the 35mm fixed lens to a 28mm (WCL-X100) or 50mm (TCL-X100) with no loss of aperture. You can get very clean used copies of the converter lenses on ebay for about $200 USD. I don't know well Sony's version of HSS works, but the built-in ND filter and leaf shutter are nice touches on my X100S.

I agree. I was wondering why the RX1 never got the same series of converters that the Fuji "system" has always had.

Probably would've bought an RX1 last year if they had such a conversion system.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'm surprised that we are not seeing the new sensors in other products. Sony claims to want to take over the sensor business, but, if they don't or can't sell the sensors, that won't happen. They are setting up their sensor business as a separate entity, so the Sony camera division should be treated as just another buyer with out any exclusive access. If they don't operate that way, they will not reach their goal.

 

[Luds34]

It's a lot of high-end tech, but a fixed lens camera for $3,295? That's a niche product, regardless of whatever IQ it can reel in.

100% agree. I struggle with the idea of an X100T because it is a fixed lens system that will go out of date someday and that's just over a grand. But $3k+ is at a whole other level...

Agreed. Clearly this is a camera aimed squarely at the top 1% of earners. That's not me, nor will it ever be. But, then, if I were going for a fixed lens camera, a 35mm lens would not be the one I'd choose.

Yep, definitely a bit of a niche product for those with a lot of extra disposable income to buy the latest greatest toys. Like you, I cannot justify such a purchase.

 

[Luds34]

100% agree. I struggle with the idea of an X100T because it is a fixed lens system that will go out of date someday and that's just over a grand. But $3k+ is at a whole other level.

One advantage of the Fuji is that you can purchase conversion lenses that converts the 35mm fixed lens to a 28mm (WCL-X100) or 50mm (TCL-X100) with no loss of aperture. You can get very clean used copies of the converter lenses on ebay for about $200 USD. I don't know well Sony's version of HSS works, but the built-in ND filter and leaf shutter are nice touches on my X100S.

I never really got the lens modifiers. At that point, if you are going to mess around with swapping those on and off, why are you using a fixed lens to begin with? Shouldn't you have gone with an X-T1, X-E2, etc?

Yes, I've been keeping an eye on the Fuji stuff for a while and the built in ND filter and leaf shutter I feel is what takes the X100 series to that next (cult like) level of love from those who shoot them.

Put me in the camp of HSS as a less then ideal solution. I'd even settle for 1/500th sync speed. But definitely something along the lines of 1/1000 or 1/2000 would be golden!

 

[Adelino]

This is what mirrorless body style should be - not a7 II , not a7r II and not a7s II.

Agree, but it depends on what you want:

For those who see mirrorless as a chance to do everything an SLR can, you get an A7.

For those who see mirrorless as a chance to get FF IQ in a tiny camera, you get this.

- A

I do not see any issues holding a7, a7r and a7s body style. If Sony has added pop-up EVF to it, I think it even better.

New a7 bodies are getting bigger and heavier. Both shutter and aperture dials are tiny and feel cheap. There is almost no point getting into mirrorless if they keep increase the body size.

If the future is truly mirrorless as some say (let's wait and see but anyway), then some of us will need one in a DSLR-sized body for the ergonomics with big lenses.

Much agreed I see many benefits from mirrorless but I am not interested in size, I'd rather have larger battery and more physical contols, buttons and knobs. There is room for each, I think the future of cameras will come down to ergonomics for a particular purpose, as small as possible and as easy as operate as possible, with variations. At a certain point IQ, high ISO performance, speed etc will be topped out and the surviving camera makers will differentiate on packaging.

 

[quod]

I never really got the lens modifiers. At that point, if you are going to mess around with swapping those on and off, why are you using a fixed lens to begin with? Shouldn't you have gone with an X-T1, X-E2, etc?

The 28mm is super tiny in size and very useful when you want to go wider and cannot move backwards. The IQ is on par with the native 35mm, which is stellar. The 50mm is bigger and not as sharp as the 28mm.

Put me in the camp of HSS as a less then ideal solution. I'd even settle for 1/500th sync speed. But definitely something along the lines of 1/1000 or 1/2000 would be golden!

The X100S can shoot up to 1/1600 at f/2+ (or 1/2000 at f/4+) with no degradation of flash power like HSS.

 

[Luds34]

I never really got the lens modifiers. At that point, if you are going to mess around with swapping those on and off, why are you using a fixed lens to begin with? Shouldn't you have gone with an X-T1, X-E2, etc?

The 28mm is super tiny in size and very useful when you want to go wider and cannot move backwards. The IQ is on par with the native 35mm, which is stellar. The 50mm is bigger and not as sharp as the 28mm.

Put me in the camp of HSS as a less then ideal solution. I'd even settle for 1/500th sync speed. But definitely something along the lines of 1/1000 or 1/2000 would be golden!

The X100S can shoot up to 1/1600 at f/2+ (or 1/2000 at f/4+) with no degradation of flash power like HSS.

Yes, sorry I should have been more explicit. That is an obvious advantage of the leaf shutter. Again, very familiar with the X100 line and what it brings to the table. I was talking the other 90 some percent of the other ILC systems out there, like our traditional DSLRs. I mean geez, my 6D is 1/180. Doesn't take too much light outdoors to blow that away.

 

[sdsr]

It's a lot of high-end tech, but a fixed lens camera for $3,295? That's a niche product, regardless of whatever IQ it can reel in.

100% agree. I struggle with the idea of an X100T because it is a fixed lens system that will go out of date someday and that's just over a grand. But $3k+ is at a whole other level...

Agreed. Clearly this is a camera aimed squarely at the top 1% of earners. That's not me, nor will it ever be. But, then, if I were going for a fixed lens camera, a 35mm lens would not be the one I'd choose.

Nor I (nor would I want a fixed focal length camera in the first place). But more than a few people say that 35mm is their preferred focal length. For them, and if the lens is as good as it's reputation, it's not *that* expensive - for the price of an a7rII you get, as well, what would otherwise be an expensive 35mm lens. Too bad the camera doesn't seem to have IBIS.

 

[sdsr]

The features you mentioned are great additional benefits in mirrorless. However, let's not forget the why the mirrorless was introduced, the core fundamental of mirrorless.

You have a point, of course (though if you really want small as well as versatility, m43 is perhaps a better solution), but sometimes unintended benefits are the best sort. Making MF easy through a viewfinder, allowing the use of a vast range of lenses via adapters, and making it easier to nail exposure (etc.) are far more important to me than small size, nice enough though that may be. As for your other comment about batteries, battery life is *worse* with the new a7 bodies thanks to IBIS, isn't it? (Doesn't matter much to me as I always carry spares, have a charger in my office, etc.)

 

[bwud]

The amplified VF for dark shooting is difficult since it gets so noisy (at least with mine), but it makes possible what I could not do with OVF.

That's the key bit. I've shot some concerts where AF confirmation itself was hard on my 5D3, but even when it did confirm I had no idea what it actually locked onto. I strongly prefer an OVF, but this is one instance where an amplified EVF excels (noisy or not).

- A

It seems to depend on subject. I have shot some really dark stuff (underground room with practically no ambient, flashes without modeling lamps) with my A7R ii where I would have merely been guessing with OVF, but was able to zoom in and find the (excessively) noisy eye in the EVF.

Last night/this morning, however, I was shooting stars. The EVF is useless - it is impossible to distinguish stars from noise. The LCD is better, but I had to painstakingly scroll around the screen, zooming in to look for what was obviously a star, when I could see hundreds with my eyes. Granted I was hamstringing myself with an f/4 lens while I had faster available, but regardless my 5D iii was much easier to focus with.

ISO1250, f/4, 91seconds (a7r ii)

 

[9VIII]

I keep forgetting that the 36 MP Sony sensors in Nikons came out in Nikon bodies first, as the A7 platform was still in development.

With this gen, of course, Sony bodies got the sensor hotness first:

A7R II: June 10, 2015

RX1R II: October 15, 2015

Nikon D820/D850/D900/whatever: [Crickets]

I appreciate that you can't just design a camera body and slap in a sensor when it becomes available. I also appreciate that the Nikon is worth waiting for compared to the Sony -- the Nikon variant of these Sony sensors (D800/D800E/D810) are generally regarded as better top-to-bottom cameras for a host of reasons.

But there comes a point that the new sensor hotness ain't so new and hot anymore. What happens if the Nikon D820/D850/D900/Dwhatever doesn't come out until a year after the A7R II?

- A

Rumor is part of the Exmor licensing agreement is that no-one other than Sony gets to use new sensors until six months after release.

So, they got their product out as early as possible without compromising the holiday season. If the rumors are true then January is going to be a busy month.