Off Brand: Sony Announces the A9

Hflm

Gear: 5div, A7riii, A9 ...
Jan 10, 2017
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3kramd5 said:
Hflm said:
3kramd5 said:
Presumably their story is that the stacked sensor allows readouts fast enough to avoid artifacts from full electric shutter.
It better should. MY present A7rii is hardly usable in churches during weddings because of banding.

I'll have to check that out. Other than one time to hear if it's really silent, I've never used it due to one of sony's design choices to drop precision by a bit in that mode.
If ISO is higher (like in chruches), it doesn't matter whether it is 12bit or 14bit, as one will hardly see a difference. But banding is the bigger issue to me at least.
 

PureClassA

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I was really expecting to see this camera hit with something that looked more like the phoroshopped rumor designs (more akin to a 1DX) with a bigger body designed to balance out against bigger glass, just as you said. I really find it disappointing they decided somewhere along the line to try to offer a full featured "Pro" competitive camera, but still seemingly shove it all inside a compact body.

ahsanford said:
3kramd5 said:
And in fairness that's an embarrassing kludge. They should have made the body bigger.

+1000. My point from the beginning. I'm just trying to give an F letter grade on the body decision a kind D- grading based on the extender.

The 'have cake and eat it too' line is the A7 line -- small but loaded with tech. But the A9 specs and pricing seem aimed at people that will only put f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it. Give them a body to wield that big glass appropriately!

- A
 

neuroanatomist

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ahsanford said:
But the A9 specs and pricing seem aimed at people that will only put f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it. Give them a body to wield that big glass appropriately!

Except that Sony has stated repeatedly* that the main advantage of MILCs is the smaller size and lighter weight.



*Note that stating something repeatedly doesn't make it true.
 

ahsanford

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Aug 16, 2012
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neuroanatomist said:
ahsanford said:
But the A9 specs and pricing seem aimed at people that will only put f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it. Give them a body to wield that big glass appropriately!
Except that Sony has stated repeatedly* that the main advantage of MILCs is the smaller size and lighter weight.

...and now they've released a sports/wildlife rig that has the grip smaller than 77D that will be asked to wield heavy glass all day. I await the smaller and lighter lenses for such demanding applications. ::)

- A
 

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neuroanatomist

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ahsanford said:
...and now they've released a sports/wildlife rig that has the grip smaller than 77D that will be asked to wield heavy glass all day. I await the smaller and lighter lenses for such demanding applications.

Sony has this all thought out, they're poised to take over the market as soon as POTUS signs the executive order that no one can have hands larger than his. ;)
 

3kramd5

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I gotta say, the no blackout high frame rate shooting with continuous AF looks slick.

https://youtu.be/_ZXFI-eIXk8

neuroanatomist said:
ahsanford said:
But the A9 specs and pricing seem aimed at people that will only put f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it. Give them a body to wield that big glass appropriately!

Except that Sony has stated repeatedly* that the main advantage of MILCs is the smaller size and lighter weight.


They have? I'm not saying you're wrong, and I haven't paid much attention to their campaigns, but usually it's Sony evangelists who make that incorrect case. Smaller form factor is an option, but it's not the main advantage (and in many cases it's not an advantage at all.

That sounds like something a marketing department farted out without conferring with engineering.
 

neuroanatomist

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3kramd5 said:
neuroanatomist said:
Except that Sony has stated repeatedly* that the main advantage of MILCs is the smaller size and lighter weight.

They have? I'm not saying you're wrong, and I haven't paid much attention to their campaigns, but usually it's Sony evangelists who make that incorrect case. Smaller form factor is an option, but it's not the main advantage (and in many cases it's not an advantage at all.

That sounds like something a marketing department farted out without conferring with engineering.

For example, in an Amateur Photographer interview with Kimio Maki (Sony's Senior General Manager of the Digital Imaging Business Group):

AP: Can you summarise the benefit of choosing an Alpha 7-series camera over a DSLR in a single sentence?
KM: Size. It’s all about size – it’s smaller and lighter. That’s the main reason of choosing our products.

AP: There are still some who prefer the feel of a DSLR and in their hands opposed to a Sony Alpha 7-series camera. What would you say to these photographers?
KM: If you don’t mind the feel of a camera that’s bigger and heavier please carry on. If you want to take a lighter and smaller camera, the Sony Alpha 7-series might be preferred. As long as the quality is the same, smaller and lighter is better I think. That is our policy.
(full transcript of interview)
 

3kramd5

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:eek:

Carry on? Like don't buy our shit?

Again, this is a crazy allegiance to form factor. It's like they don't care to let consumers know about their technological achievements.
 

ahsanford

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neuroanatomist said:
KM: If you don’t mind the feel of a camera that’s bigger and heavier please carry on. If you want to take a lighter and smaller camera, the Sony Alpha 7-series might be preferred. As long as the quality is the same, smaller and lighter is better I think. That is our policy.

And that's the key phrase. A9 is a new platform 'level'/trimline. An A9 is not an A7 like a 1DX is not a 5D.

Announcing the A9 line was a chance to shape that product line's identity differently. Imagine an alternate narrative to this rig:

  • "We made it bigger and tougher for the demands of professional photographers."

  • "Fast full-frame lenses need to be larger and heavier than slower lenses, so we gave you a more solid grip to hold the camera."

  • "We change the control layout to give professionals more dedicated knobs/switches/buttons to make real-time changes more intuitive and faster to perform. This lets you maximize your time looking through the viewfinder to not miss that decisive moment."

You get the idea. The A9 could have been a different animal with a different marketing story that would have resonated better with professionals. Instead, Sony stuck to its guns and put an A7 on steroids. I think that was a bad call.

- A
 

neuroanatomist

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Sony: "World, if you want bigger, heavier cameras then buy from someone else."

World: "Ok, we will."

;)
 

Jopa

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ahsanford said:
You get the idea. The A9 could have been a different animal with a different marketing story that would have resonated better with professionals. Instead, Sony stuck to its guns and put an A7 on steroids. I think that was a bad call.

- A

That's why I thought the A9 would look much more logical in an A99 style body (even keeping E-mount). So now the A99II looks more suitable for large lenses than the "sports" A9.
I hope when Canon is ready for a pro mirroless they won't put it into an M-style body ;)
 

Sator

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More exactly, this 24MP stacked sensor would have made more sense in A mount because they already have decent long telephoto primes for A mount. It would also balance between ergonomically with large telephoto lenses. You would have gotten 20fps shooting with the mechanical shutter and all the advantages that confers. The a9 seems a bit of a waste of an interesting sensor.
 

Dylan777

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ahsanford said:
neuroanatomist said:
ahsanford said:
But the A9 specs and pricing seem aimed at people that will only put f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it. Give them a body to wield that big glass appropriately!
Except that Sony has stated repeatedly* that the main advantage of MILCs is the smaller size and lighter weight.

...and now they've released a sports/wildlife rig that has the grip smaller than 77D that will be asked to wield heavy glass all day. I await the smaller and lighter lenses for such demanding applications. ::)

- A

You forgot to add front and back side ;)

I said before, going to say again. The option going small is there for a7/a9 + FE28, FE35f2.8, FE55, Batis and latest FE85f1.8. You do not need to add heavy f1.4 and 2.8 zoom on it.

Lack of weather sealed and big lenses could spell trouble for A9.
 

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ahsanford

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Sator said:
More exactly, this 24MP stacked sensor would have made more sense in A mount because they already have decent long telephoto primes for A mount. It would also balance between ergonomically with large telephoto lenses. You would have gotten 20fps shooting with the mechanical shutter and all the advantages that confers. The a9 seems a bit of a waste of an interesting sensor.

1) Nothing is stopping you from putting your A-mount glass on an A9. You can adapt it.

2) A-mount would not attract Canon and Nikon folks like E-mount does, as again, you can adapt your EF glass or FX glass on it.

3) Sony has never delivered more than a... 12 fps mechanical shutter, is that right? There is no 20 fps mechanical shutter ready to go.

4) Eventually a 20 fps setup like this could hit the A-mount someday (with an electronic shutter), but why they'd lead with that instead of E-mount is beyond me. Again: Trying A-mount is a full blown conversion, where E-mount is far less painful to try out.

- A
 

ERHP

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I see the comparison images of the A9 vs the 1D X II and D5 and chuckle a bit when I think of people who shoot portrait. Two of the units are quite comfortable to hold and use in that orientation. It kinda brings back memories of when the goal was make cell phones so small you could barely hold them and now we have people walking around with 7" tablets for their phone.
 

Cthulhu

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ahsanford said:
Sator said:
More exactly, this 24MP stacked sensor would have made more sense in A mount because they already have decent long telephoto primes for A mount. It would also balance between ergonomically with large telephoto lenses. You would have gotten 20fps shooting with the mechanical shutter and all the advantages that confers. The a9 seems a bit of a waste of an interesting sensor.

1) Nothing is stopping you from putting your A-mount glass on an A9. You can adapt it.

- A

Nothing except for more money, less performance, compromised weather sealing. Oh, less FPS too, like a quarter of it as of now and half with a rumored firmware upgrade.
 

kaptainkatsu

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Sep 29, 2015
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ERHP said:
I see the comparison images of the A9 vs the 1D X II and D5 and chuckle a bit when I think of people who shoot portrait. Two of the units are quite comfortable to hold and use in that orientation. It kinda brings back memories of when the goal was make cell phones so small you could barely hold them and now we have people walking around with 7" tablets for their phone.

I've been shooting a lot gymnastics lately and I pretty much exclusively shoot in portrait mode, as do most of the other photographers. Having identical ergonomics in both landscape and portrait mode is a huge deal for me.
 

photojoern.de

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As a Canon Shooter, I was tempted moving to Sony because of the sensor and the increasing availability of high quality glass. Until I went to the local camera store and equipped an a7 RII with the 70-200 f2.8 G-Master and the 24-70 f2.8. The camera body is simply too small! The ergonomics of the body together with a quality glass ("L" in terms of Canon, G-Master called at Sony) simply sucks. I have really small hands and fingers which could be of a piano player, but still the body is just too small and you can hardly grab the body at the right hand side. This looks to be the same with the A9, as far as I can see it from pictures.
Another interesting thing regarding the A9: I was very surprised when I realized that it was made for the e-Mount, not for the A-mount. That means, implicitly, the A-Mount is dead.
 

ahsanford

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photojoern.de said:
Another interesting thing regarding the A9: I was very surprised when I realized that it was made for the e-Mount, not for the A-mount. That means, implicitly, the A-Mount is dead.

Everyone said the A-mount is dead after the A7R came out, the A7R II came out, etc. Then the A99-II surfaced.

The FE mount gets the hot stuff first because the mirrorless market is popular for them, and because it allows Sony to court CaNikon shooters (who can adapt the lenses they already own).

But Sony can always jam most of that same technology into a future A-mount rig. For instance, the A99-II is effectively an SLT with the A7R II sensor.

The A-mount is certainly Sony's second most important (stills camera) mount, but I think it will live on. It will just have slower refresh timing than the FE mount.

- A