Here are the Canon EOS R7 and Canon EOS R10

Michael Clark

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Was anyone predicting the successor to the 90D or 7DII would be nothing more than the 90D?

Although not necessary for a successor as defined, in the world of consumer products a successor has improvements relative to its predecessor. The 90D improved on the 80D. The 7DII improved on the 7D. I’m not aware of any meaningful ways in which the 90D was a step down from the 80D, or the 7DII from the 7D.

If the R7 sits between the 90D and the 7DII, then it is the successor to the 90D, but not the successor to the 7DII.

So by your definition the 60D was not the successor to the 50D?

Got it.
 
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Michael Clark

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It seems Canon didn't see it that way:
"Professional photographers and advanced amateurs have been demanding higher performance and more diverse functions in their cameras, and Canon has answered – with the new EOS 7D."

Released when the 50D was the highest level of APS-C: Canon's new EOS 50D bridges the gap between the novice and the seasoned pro with a perfect combination of high-speed and quality.

The 7D closed that gap further for Canon, giving a body that feel in between the 50D and the 5D II.

Many complained when the 60D released that it was dumbed down from what you could do with the 50D. It was, most likely they didn't want it competing with the 7D.

The 7D line was not a specialty camera or a specific tool. Photographers that believe in the crop "reach fairy" bought in to the idea that it was a specialty animal to give more reach.

I bought in to this line and bought a 7D, after a few months I realized the illusion and bought a 1D IV. The "reach fairy" is a myth created to sell more crop bodies.

If I would have had one thing to change in the progression I bought digital cameras I would have never owned an APS-C body. Those 4 bodies would have paid for an R3. I put the R7 on preorder on its release the other morning, I came to my senses a few hours later and canceled.

You're quoting the sales pitch, not the possible conversations from the board room that centered on what market sector each model was aimed at. All one needs to do is look at the mode dial to see the real difference in design philosophy between the two. Even though you claim the 7D Mark II could do everything the 70D and 80D could, the latter two had all kinds of Scene modes that were not available on the 7D Mark II.

The powers that be at Canon decided to split the x0D line into a more general purpose camera with more attractive pricing (the 60D) and a more robust and speed oriented line in the 7D.

I don't know where you get "the reach fairy" from anything I've said above. The advantage of the 7D concept for certain types of sports, action, and wildlife shooting was the pixel density, not the sensor size. But the smaller sensor size allowed more speed with that higher pixel density by reducing the needed data throughput at a time when data throughput seemed to drive the cost of many cameras from not only Canon but everyone else at the time.

When the 7D was introduced in 2009 Canon was still three years away from unifying the "speed" 1D line with the "resolution" 1Ds line in 2012 with the release of the 1D X.

I don't blame you at all for being disappointed with the original 7D. A lot of us were. Even though it was only 15 MP and had only 9 AF points, I got better pictures from the 50D than from the original 7D. The shot-to-shot inconsistency of the AF system was its Achilles' heel. The 18MP sensor was noisy. But it did show potential in spite of its flaws. And in spite of its flaws, it did allow one to shoot night and indoor sports under relatively dim light with a 70-200/2.8 instead of with a 300/2.8 plus another wider lens (like the aforementioned 70-200 on another body). Not only was a 7D + 70-200/2.8 cheaper than a 1D + 300/2.8 and another body with a shorter zoom, it was also a lot lighter.

The 7D Mark II was everything the 7D should have been. AF was much more accurate and consistent from shot-to-shot in Servo tracking mode. IQ was much better than the 7D. It was built like a tank and has taken punishment I'd have never though it could. For November 2014 it was a lot of camera for less than $1,800. By June of 2015 I picked mine up from B&H for only $1,499 with an extra third party Watson LP-E6N and a small/medium camera bag thrown in.
 
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Michael Clark

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So by your definition the R7 is the successor to the 7DII?

Got it.

No, I've never said that.

What I said the day of the official announcement is what Rudy Winston said in an interview later released by Adorama:

It's somewhere between a 90D and a 7D Mark II.

You're the one categorically insisting that it's a 90D successor and can't possibly be anything more than a 90D successor.
 
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mdcmdcmdc

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Michael Clark

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They're showing the same MSRP and Canon Store prices now but they were different when I posted that the other day.

View attachment 203987

Whatever the snafu, it was apparently at Canon USA, not at B&H, which does not surprise me at all.

Canon seems to have zero concern about what kind of company their web site(s) project them to be, at least in the U.S. I can't even use Chrome (my preferred browser for most things) to shop in their store or log into my CPS account and see what is on my equipment list. I have to use MS Edge. What is on my CPS equipment list is rarely synchronized with what is on my "Registered Products" list at the general Canon USA site. When I send something in for service to Norfolk, I can't check order status using Chrome, it has to be Edge. Sometimes it doesn't even work then.
 
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unfocused

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So by your definition the R7 is the successor to the 7DII?

Got it.
A successor is simply something that follows its predecessor, there is no rule that a successor has to have every feature of its predecessor. The features of the R7 fall somewhere between the 7D II and the 90D, but more in line with the 7D. It seems to be a successor to both cameras, just as the 1Dx was the successor to two cameras.
 
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AlanF

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A successor is simply something that follows its predecessor, there is no rule that a successor has to have every feature of its predecessor. The features of the R7 fall somewhere between the 7D II and the 90D, but more in line with the 7D. It seems to be a successor to both cameras, just as the 1Dx was the successor to two cameras.
Let’s hope it is simply a success!
 
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A successor is simply something that follows its predecessor, there is no rule that a successor has to have every feature of its predecessor. The features of the R7 fall somewhere between the 7D II and the 90D, but more in line with the 7D. It seems to be a successor to both cameras, just as the 1Dx was the successor to two cameras.
And in many ways, it goes way beyond both of them.
 
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Since the 90D was the new repackaged 7DIII that makes sense.
Except that it wasnt as good weather seal wise.And it has only one card slot. A question for all. In the UK we are still waiting for Canon to release stock, so I would like to know what anyone who has got their hands on an R7 makes of it. I have read countless field test reports and they are so mixed regarding performance and build etc. What are your thoughts if you are a user already please?
 
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Even though you claim the 7D Mark II could do everything the 70D and 80D could, the latter two had all kinds of Scene modes that were not available on the 7D Mark II.
You are right, all the cameras at the 7D level and above do not have the Scene modes. I guess Canon assumed that if you were an advanced armature or pro you should know how to set your camera for various scenes. I find it amusing that you used that example.
 
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Michael Clark

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You are right, all the cameras at the 7D level and above do not have the Scene modes. I guess Canon assumed that if you were an advanced armature or pro you should know how to set your camera for various scenes. I find it amusing that you used that example.

I find it amusing that you're agreeing with my point that the 7D Mark II was a more specialized camera instead of a general purpose one like the 80D intended for a wider range of users, including less experienced shooters.
 
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Michael Clark

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Except that it wasnt as good weather seal wise.And it has only one card slot. A question for all. In the UK we are still waiting for Canon to release stock, so I would like to know what anyone who has got their hands on an R7 makes of it. I have read countless field test reports and they are so mixed regarding performance and build etc. What are your thoughts if you are a user already please?

No one who ordered a production model has gotten one yet.

All of the reviews out there that actually tested a camera in hand did so with pre-production loaners from Canon.
 
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I find it amusing that you're agreeing with my point that the 7D Mark II was a more specialized camera instead of a general purpose one like the 80D intended for a wider range of users, including less experienced shooters.
The R7 has an SCN setting on the mode dial, consistent with it being more a 90D successor than a 7DII successor.
 
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I find it amusing that you're agreeing with my point that the 7D Mark II was a more specialized camera instead of a general purpose one like the 80D intended for a wider range of users, including less experienced shooters.

That cracks me up.
With those kind of twist or turns you must have been a gymnast in your younger days.
Or worse, a politician.

I do agree, the 80D is intended for the less experienced shooter.
At its release Canon said:
In today’s world, where everyone is a photographer or videographer,
 
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Michael Clark

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The R7 has an SCN setting on the mode dial, consistent with it being more a 90D successor than a 7DII successor.

As I've been predicting for well over a year, the R7 is a little bit of both that is somewhere between the two. Rudy Winston said the same thing last week.

Canon named it the R7 because they see it as fitting in the same market segment as the 7D Mark II did, just as they named the R5 and R6 to communicate that those cameras fit the same market space as the 5D Mark IV and 6D Mark II before them did.

Canon bases model names on market segments, not specs. They always have and probably always will.

You can continue to deny the obvious if you wish to continue making a fool out of yourself.

The 90D only had a 120,000 actuation shutter rating and one memory card. It had an intentionally downgrade AF system from the top APS-C AF system in the 7D Mark II. It had a smaller viewfinder than the 7D Mark II. The 90D, introduced in 2019, only has an USB 2 interface. The 90D has a polycarbonate body.

The R7 has a 200,000 shutter rating (just as the 7D Mark II did). The R7 has two memory card slots. By all reports it has the same AF software as the R3 and sensor pixel density, which contributes to DPAF performance, that is higher than the R5. It has a larger VF than the 7D Mark II, not to mention the smaller 90D VF. The R7 has an USB 3.2 interface, compared to the USB 3 interface the 7D Mark II, introduced in 2014, has. The R7 has a body made of magnesium alloy and engineering plastics. This slots it between the magnesium alloy body of the 7D Mark II (though there were external parts of the 7D Mark II body that were plastic, like the pop-up flash cover) and the polycarbonate body of the 90D.

Yes, the narrower baseline of APS-C will always result in slightly lower AF performance than FF cameras with the same level of hardware and software. But the 90D also had downgraded software and hardware compared to the 7D Mark II, which had the same software and very similar hardware, other than the narrower baseline, as the 5D Mark III and the 1D X that were both current when the 7D Mark II was introduced.

The 90D and 7D Mark II only had two continuous shooting speeds, the R7 has three, similar to the higher tier 5D Mark IV.
The R7, at $1,499, is priced exactly between the introductory prices of the 7D Mark II ($1,799) and the 90D ($1,199).
 
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