5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...

[DarkKnightNine]

Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases.

Like when the lens doesn't nail focus?

Also, at f/13 you are beyond the diffraction limit of the sensor. You will get better results at f/11 but still may soften fine details, f/8 will probably be the sweet spot.

You missed the point. I shot at f/13 for the portrait of myself above. Because of the deep DOF, the shot was very much "in focus". Shooting your self with a timer requires that you you have deep DOF.

What I was saying is that when I have shallow DOF that I was finding the 5D Mark III to not nail focus and images were coming out a little on the soft side (usually for events or concerts with limited lighting conditions I'm at about 2.8 to 4.0). Another separate example image also above.

I probably should have clarified... The first part was in reference to your initial post, and the fact you will need AFMA to nail focus on your thin DoF shots. The second part, was just a note on your self portrait; you will get sharper results (especially on fine details) if you don't stop down quite so much, and you should still have plenty of DoF to pull off that shot at f/8 or f/11.

Thanks for the advice. Usually when I shoot short portraits I'm around f/7.1 or 8 unless I'm trying to do something artistic.

 

[DarkKnightNine]

If you're not here to help, how about you just scoot along little fella.

In all honesty, you haven't been very receptive to the help people have provided. You just seem to want to complain.

The first thing I do when I get a new lens is check the focus. Luckily none that I own have need any adjustment but several rented lenses have. It's just good to check. Esp if you are a wide open shooter.

I am making no assumptions or insults on your intelligence at all but the new 61 point system is quite different and perhaps more study is required. It's very similar to the 7D's system and it took me some time to fiddle with it and then finally decide one which mode was best for me. I had a lot of failures as a result.

But I just have a 7D so what do I know... :

Perhaps I was a little hasty to pass judgement on the camera, just as you were hasty to pass judgement on me. I don't have an ego when it comes to taking advice but at the same time I hate it when people assume that just because you say something negative about a product from their favorite company that you must be an idiot, incompetent or a basher. Canon and Nikon fanatics are becoming like Apple Fanboys. It's madness. Corporations exist to make money and in doing so they will cut corners to get a new product out the door if they fear competition is heating up. Canon is no different from any other corporate entity.

You also seemed assumed that I must have loads of cash to spend on equipment. Believe me if I did, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because I would be on Leica's Forums talking about an S2. Every penny I spend is one very rigorously earned so I guess I'm extra critical when my equipment doesn't live up to expectations.

On that note, I guess I had become so accustomed to the images I was getting from my 1D Mark IV that it hadn't really occurred to me that I had spent the better part of 3 years with that camera learning, tweaking and perfecting my shooting style with it.

I appreciate all the advice and input from everyone here. I'll try AFMA and I know that you can enter the serial number for your exact lens into the 5D Mark III. I'll try that and tweaking the AF System a little more to see if I can get better results when I shoot another concert again tomorrow night.

 

[CowGummy]

i like your belt.

 

[williejr]

With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.

Yes indeed, that's why I've determined that the 5D Mark III belongs in a controlled environment like a studio whereas I'm waiting for the two 1DXes I ordered on announcement day for my event and concert shooting. That seems to be the 5D Mark III's limitations.

I only tried out the 5D Mark III last night because...
1. I thought it might be able to handle it given it has basically the same AF as the 1DX and...
2. My 1DXes have been delayed so I have to shoot with what I have.

I'm like you have a 1DIV and have put it down since my 5DM3 has arrived. I have tried to put it to the test (low light, sports, engagement shoots...ect) and intially was dissappointed. I wasn't quite nailing focus, the right exposures and trying to find the correct "case" that would suit my shooting style/subject.

I went back to the drawing board, read the 5DM3 manual over and sat down to really understand the new AF and AI servo features and watch a bunch of the new videos on the Canon learning site about the new 61pt AF.

I quickly found out, the the 5DM3 AF point-linked spot metering was ONLY limited to the center point, unlike the 1DIV that had been accustomed to, so my metering was always off. Switching AF points on the 5DM3 required a extra step, unlike the 1DIV where you can use the toggle stick at anytime. Also, for some strange reason, my lenses were a tad off and I needed to micro adjust. My best lens, the 35L 1.4 was spot on perfect with my IV, but on the M3, I need to micro adjust +5. My 24, 85, 70-200 were spot on. I played around trying different cases and it turned out using the default case and slowing down the tracking priority seemed to do the trick.

Just these small tweaks and a lot of practice as rendered some great images in different enviroments. There is definate learning curve and adjustment period. With all these people that say, my 5DM3 shoots nothing but great images, is just an exaggeration, because nobody has 100% keepers.

 

[jabbott]

Have you tried shooting concerts with fast aperture prime lenses? Personally I never get the shutter speed or AF performance I'm looking for when using zoom lenses in dim concert lighting. An f/1.4 lens takes in 4X as much light than f/2.8 which makes a huge difference. Admittedly the DOF is razor thin however. Here is one of my favorite concert shots of Gregg Block of Ploy for Extinction, in the middle of headbanging, shot with a Canon 50mm f/1.4 wide open:

 

[ers811]

Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.

I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.

 

[deviousrlm]

I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:

I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference.

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D). Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes.

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic. Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

 

[nitsujwalker]

I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:

I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference.

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D). Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes.

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic. Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

Great shots!

 

[Razor2012]

I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:

I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference.

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D). Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes.

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic. Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

Great shots!

Agreed, 12800 looks good.

 

[RonQ]

Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.

I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

I have a MK2 and not trying to sound like an amature, but, what's AFMA?

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.

 

[PhotoCat]

Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.

I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.

I was really curious to know if the Nikon guys need this AFMA. We r so used to it in the
Canon camp that whenever we purchase a new lens, we need to get a bandage for it as well LOL!

So I found the following link. It seems that the Nikon guys don't need this AFMA as much as we do...
Well, u tell me why...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/937053

I think one should eventually be able to design a camera/lens AF system that doesn't require AFMA.
AFMA feels like a bandage solution to me... and it seems to rely on absolute tolerance of components too much...

 

[t.linn]

I use FoCal, its the most accurate method I've found so far.

This is a great tip. I'd never heard of FoCal before but it looks like a very useful tool. With the Martin Bailey discount the Pro version is only $75. That's cheaper than going with an alignment tool to perform the process manually. I know what I'll be doing this weekend.

 

[Northstar]

dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective.

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed. But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.

Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1. I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now. I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2. I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion. Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points.
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here)
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds. I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.

 

[Northstar]

I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:

I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference.

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D). Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes.

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic. Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

I really like these shots!

 

[1982chris911]

Well as long as it is capable of shots like these it is within my expectations or better ...
P.S. I love the new AF ...


Decentered Ascent - Umschreibung #2 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


The Impossible Staircase - Umschreibung #1 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


Signs of Spring - Ladybird von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


Stone Bridge Regensburg - Blue Hour von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr

 

[Razor2012]

Well as long as it is capable of shots like these it is within my expectations or better ...
P.S. I love the new AF ...


Decentered Ascent - Umschreibung #2 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


The Impossible Staircase - Umschreibung #1 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


Signs of Spring - Ladybird von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


Stone Bridge Regensburg - Blue Hour von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr

Nice shots, which lenses were you using?

 

[1982chris911]

Nice shots, which lenses were you using?

Top two Sigma 12-24 HSM II, Ladybird is Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS II + Ext III x2 at 400mm, bottom Canon 24-70 f2.8

 

[Razor2012]

Nice shots, which lenses were you using?

Top two Sigma 12-24 HSM II, Ladybird is Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS II + Ext III x2 at 400mm, bottom Canon 24-70 f2.8

The 2x extender on the ladybug looks good. I plan on getting the 1.4III.

 

[DarkKnightNine]

With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.

Yes indeed, that's why I've determined that the 5D Mark III belongs in a controlled environment like a studio whereas I'm waiting for the two 1DXes I ordered on announcement day for my event and concert shooting. That seems to be the 5D Mark III's limitations.

I only tried out the 5D Mark III last night because...
1. I thought it might be able to handle it given it has basically the same AF as the 1DX and...
2. My 1DXes have been delayed so I have to shoot with what I have.

I'm like you have a 1DIV and have put it down since my 5DM3 has arrived. I have tried to put it to the test (low light, sports, engagement shoots...ect) and intially was dissappointed. I wasn't quite nailing focus, the right exposures and trying to find the correct "case" that would suit my shooting style/subject.

I went back to the drawing board, read the 5DM3 manual over and sat down to really understand the new AF and AI servo features and watch a bunch of the new videos on the Canon learning site about the new 61pt AF.

I quickly found out, the the 5DM3 AF point-linked spot metering was ONLY limited to the center point, unlike the 1DIV that had been accustomed to, so my metering was always off. Switching AF points on the 5DM3 required a extra step, unlike the 1DIV where you can use the toggle stick at anytime. Also, for some strange reason, my lenses were a tad off and I needed to micro adjust. My best lens, the 35L 1.4 was spot on perfect with my IV, but on the M3, I need to micro adjust +5. My 24, 85, 70-200 were spot on. I played around trying different cases and it turned out using the default case and slowing down the tracking priority seemed to do the trick.

Just these small tweaks and a lot of practice as rendered some great images in different enviroments. There is definate learning curve and adjustment period. With all these people that say, my 5DM3 shoots nothing but great images, is just an exaggeration, because nobody has 100% keepers.

Thank you. Finally a voice of reason. I just think so many people want to jump on the fanboy bandwagon and sing nothing but praises to the new Canon toy that no one wants to even consider the possibility that there may be something a little off. Like you, coming from a 1DMKIV and trying to adjust to the new camera has been a little difficult. I was able to get great pictures in controlled lighting but that's pretty rudimentary. It's the challenging lighting that makes a $3,000+ worth the price. Otherwise I would just shoot with a Rebel.

Anyway despite all the negative criticism, I'm determined to get the optimized settings and since I had read on other forums that the camera was having problems with the focus being a little soft, I thought I might have been experiencing similar problems. I guess this was the wrong forum to express those concerns and from now on I will only comment on this forum when I have something glowing to say about Canon gear as it seems most people aren't even open to the idea that there are occasionally problems that aren't necessarily user error.

That being said one of the reasons why I was looking forward to using this camera over my 1D Mark IV was for cleaner images at higher ISO. Another was higher resolution over the 16MP MKIV. This camera does do both of those things exceptionally well. Now if I can just get the AF to perform as well as my MKIV, I will be in heaven (that is until I get my hands on the 1DX which I think will be better suited for event photography).

Thanks for sharing that tip about the Spot Metering only being linked to the Center Point. I assumed it would be linked to whatever point I chose like on the MKIV since this is a more advanced metering and AF system.

 

[DarkKnightNine]

dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective.

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed. But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.

Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1. I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now. I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2. I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion. Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points.
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here)
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds. I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.

Yes this was very helpful. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure there are many people like myself who are still cutting their teeth with this new AF system so it really helps to get examples and settings from people who are having success with it rather than having people say "you're a crappy photographer and don't know how to shoot". I'm sure those same people also get missed or crappy shots as well even though they will never admit it. I've been a pro for many years and I know many other pros and we all know that missed shots are something that can't be avoided (granted the percentage is lower for pros), so I'm not afraid to admit I screw up and/or may not know how to use a new system. So thank you for your help and I'm sure others reading this post have also learned a thing or two as well.