5D Mark III Information [CR1]

[Loswr]

But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small.

Funny you should mention that.

Canon could possibly do exactly that - use the 7D's AF sensor at it's current physical size in a FF camera, and because it would have 19 cross-type points it would be 'better' from a marketing standpoint (they'd ignore the reduced spread of the points), people clamoring for a '7D AF in a 5DII upgrade' would be quite happy, Canon would save development costs...and in all honesty, the coverage actually wouldn't be all that much worse than the current 5DII, and the AI Servo performance would get a lot better (denser coverage in the center with more cross-type points).

See below - when you superimpose the 7D AF points (black) at actual size relative to it's frame onto the 5DII's AF points (blue), the vertical extent of the AF points is actually the same, and the points 'closest' to the rule-of-thirds intersections are no further away than they are on the 5DII; only the extreme lateral points get pulled in a bit.

Food for thought....

 

[JR]

I feel like Canon will have to make the 5Diii sweet - how can they not? It is the camera that everyone loves. People are freaking out about the AF, but it seems to be the biggest complaint about the ii, so they will have to fix it I would think.

Can't wait until it is released and we can see who guessed right.

True indeed! Now with a rumored announcement of the D800 the first week of February (according to Nikon Rumors - though they have been wrong before) then and only then I beleive the count down to the 5D mkIII release will begin. Hopefully anywhere from March to SUmmer! Cant wait! I wonder what the booky (!?! I know this is not how it is written!) at Las Vegas place the chance of the 5D mkII getting some real AF improvements! - lol

 

[EYEONE]

But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small.

Funny you should mention that.

Canon could possibly do exactly that - use the 7D's AF sensor at it's current physical size in a FF camera, and because it would have 19 cross-type points it would be 'better' from a marketing standpoint (they'd ignore the reduced spread of the points), people clamoring for a '7D AF in a 5DII upgrade' would be quite happy, Canon would save development costs...and in all honesty, the coverage actually wouldn't be all that much worse than the current 5DII, and the AI Servo performance would get a lot better (denser coverage in the center with more cross-type points).

See below - when you superimpose the 7D AF points (black) at actual size relative to it's frame onto the 5DII's AF points (blue), the vertical extent of the AF points is actually the same, and the points 'closest' to the rule-of-thirds intersections are no further away than they are on the 5DII; only the extreme lateral points get pulled in a bit.

Food for thought....

Well, point taken. But the 5D2's spread is pretty cramped as it stands. Which makes me think that I'd be fine with 9 points if they spread was wider (and they were cross type).

But come on Neuro, you're just encouraging Canon to be evvvvvvil.

 

[V8Beast]

Well if you guys do, feel free to shoot me a message with how much you guys want for your lenses =)

I will. Seriously The problem is we both have the 17-40 and 24-105, so those won't be of much use to you. I will have a bunch of speedlites for sale, though. I used to have the 70-200 f/4 also. It's a great lens, but you could sell it for $550-$600, and upgrade to my 70-300L that might be for sale

 

[MartinvH]

This rumor sounds very trustworthy and in line with earlier sensible rumors (not with wishlists offcourse)

Aside of the eyecontrol this what I expect the 5DMK3 to come out like.

 

[K-amps]

Dumb question coming... ;D

Regardless for Focus points, why dont we see coverage on the 4 intersection points of the rule of thirds grid? Looking at the focus maps posted by John, I see coverage near the grid intersections but non on the intersection points. Heck to make it simple, there should be at least 5 points in every camera, center and 4 grid intersections to start off...

 

[K-amps]

I'm not a fan boy, so sales figures don't concern me. Canon knows the market better than me, so if they decide that a low mp, low FPS body with an antiquated AF system is best for sales, so be it. It just so happens that such a body won't suit my shooting needs, so if Nikon offers a better product, I'm switching.

keep your canon glass... perhaps give this a try?

http://conurus.com/sony

 

[kirispupis]

Although this is a rumor, it certainly sounds sensible.

From the way I read the post, it will not have the AF of the 7D but it certainly sounds like it will be an improvement on top of the 5D2.

GPS and eye focus sound like good features for this price range of camera. Canon + Nikon are facing more competition from the gadget obsessed Sony cameras and the eye focus in particular would seem to tempt this crowd.

It would be kind of nice to see Canon do something big with the 5D3. The original 5D was the first relatively affordable FF camera, while the 5D2 was the first heavily used DSLR for video. I have a feeling the 5D3 will not really be a revolutionary camera. It will be released mainly as an answer to the D800 and Sony.

 

[tt]

What it they just enlarged the AF of the 7D? a FF larger sized version? Would that fly? Wouldn't most settle for a 7D equivalent version with a good central point, if it was larger but increased proportionally from crop to FF ie same relative spread as the 7D, with usable non-central points?

 

[juwi]

But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small.

Sure they can. Pentax also did it with their medium Format camera. Now, if you think that a crop-sized AF is ridiculous on FF, then think again about how ridiculous a crop-size AF is on 645.

 

[traveller]

That's true. If Canon releases a 5D3 with the same AF as the 5D2 or even 60D I would probably just buy a cheaper 5D2. I'm certainly not on the fence for switching. Canon would not lose my business they would just lack a sell of one 5D3. I think they can deal with that.

That's the other problem for Canon from a marketing point of view; if they don't do something more than simply change the sensor for the new 18MP one, there will be a lot of people in this position. The last thing that Canon wants is 5D MkII owners not bothering to upgrade and potential full frame upgraders settling for previous 5D models. If they do use the 18MP sensor, I cannot see the point of a camera that has great high ISO capabilities without the AF system to allow you to fully utilise this. After all, the whole point of using high ISOs is to enable you to raise shutter speeds in low light!

 

[seenew]

Eye-control focus was a fun novelty, but it didn't work very well. I bought an old Elan 7E when I started my photo classes back in college just because I noticed it had the feature.

Cool conversation piece, but pretty impractical.

 

[rcha101]

Something about term 'eye control' just gives me the creeps.

 

[wickidwombat]

I think alot of people are missing the potential for the return of eye control to be great, with the exponential increases in processing power we have seen since the elan 7e do you really think it will be just a cut and paste?

The potential for the eye control ai servo mode for say shooting a runway model or model walking towards /away from you. the eye control has the potential to make this camera own the portrait modeling arena if the AF is fast and accurate. Personally for a 5d I dont need 45 point AF anywhere from 11 to 19 would be fine as long as the points are fast accurate and have good focus tracking ability.

As far as points go with the 5d2 all you really need to do is add 2 more points in the narrow axis and space them out a bit further to make it 11. I would also be happy if they just bolted the 7D af system in as Neuro points out the spread is basically the same

Now make those 11 points all cross type and perhaps make the center 5 points f2.8 (center and 2 each side on the narrow axis closest to the golden lines and canon will have a sales hit they will struggle to keep up with I seriously doubt something like this would take sales from the 1Dx.

I would like to see increasing weather sealing to 7D levels (mainly better battery door and memory card door)
Canon need a pro build non gripped body

I really wonder what sort of sensor they will use I hope the 5D line stays as a clean high iso perhaps a high MP low frame rate lower iso performer 6D using the same body could be developed to keep the Hiigh MP crowd happy.

Currently I am very happy with the 5D body and control layout. there are a couple of things i would like. AEB activation same as 1D (ie press 2 buttons together turn the wheel and boom AEB is set) some custom program buttons would be nice. (ie so can dedicate one to iso only)

I would like the battery to stay the same for backwards comptability as I wont be selling my 5dmk2 bodies any time soon

 

[Loswr]

Well, point taken. But the 5D2's spread is pretty cramped as it stands. Which makes me think that I'd be fine with 9 points if they spread was wider (and they were cross type).

But come on Neuro, you're just encouraging Canon to be evvvvvvil.

Honestly, I wasn't being sarcastic! Consider...from one point of view, the outer AF points of the 5DII essentially suck, so the 5DII has a very limited AF point spread, i.e. no spread at all, functionally just one AF point smack in the middle. From that point of view, just dropping the existing 7D's AF sensor, sized for APS-C, into the 5DII is a huge improvement!

Regardless for Focus points, why dont we see coverage on the 4 intersection points of the rule of thirds grid? Looking at the focus maps posted by John, I see coverahe near the grid intersections but non on the intersection points. Heck to make it simple, there should be at least 5 points in every camera, center and 4 grid intersections to start off...

There are limitations on how far from the center the AF points can be spread, especially in the vertical dimension. Basically, three reasons:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Limitations on the size of the secondary mirror. Light for AF passes through the semi-transparent part of the main mirror (most is reflected up to the viewfinder), then is reflected off the secondary mirror down to the AF sensor. There is limited space behind the main mirror, based on the necessary geometry (i.e. the main mirror has to be at a 45° angle to the incoming light, and the secondary mirror has to be behind the main mirror and at an angle of 90° to the main mirror, so it's length is limited by the distance between the main mirror and the image sensor).
[*]Distortion. With many lenses, the edges of the frame are subject to distortion (barrel/pincushion), and that reduces the accuracy of phase detect AF.
[*]Vingetting. The AF system needs a certain amount of light to work. Almost all lenses vignette to some degree, meaning there might not be enough light at the edges of the frame. For example, the EF 17-40mm f/4L has >2 stops of vignetting wide open at the wide end - that means at the edges of the frame, the AF sensors would not heve enough light to operate.
[/list]

Still, but the 7D and the 1D IV have points that are almost right over the intersections, and the 1DsIII and 1D X come quite close. Down toward the bottom of this article on EOS AF systems, there's a set of mouse-over comparisons that show the relative AF point spread of the recent xD bodies.

It's worth noting that none of these limitations apply to contrast detect AF, so using LiveView you can autofocus right out to the edge of the frame.

 

[Picsfor]

Here's an interesting thought -

what if the 5D3 came out with 21-24mp, 12800 working ISO with H1 & H2 up to 51k - but 9 full cross AF points that were all responsive to f2.8.

Would you all be trading up? Or would you stay with 5D2's?

 

[juwi]

I don't even think that 9 Points were necessary if they just were better (i.e. cross points).

Looking at neuroanatomists Link to the digital picture, (for which I'll have to +1 him ASAP) the current layout of 5DII focus points looks less than idea. Essentially they're crowded in the image center and all but the center point are not cross type. I think many people would be totally okay with just 6 points if they all were to be cross type and spread further from the center. Currently all but the outer right and outer left point are in the center grid if you look at the rule of third grids. What about an AF with one cross sensor in the center and one in center top, center bottom, center left, center right each. That would add up to 5 cross points. I think that would already be an improvement. Maybe throw in some line points in between, but basically a larger field with a few cross points would imo be an improvment already.

 

[mccrum]

Here's an interesting thought -

what if the 5D3 came out with 21-24mp, 12800 working ISO with H1 & H2 up to 51k - but 9 full cross AF points that were all responsive to f2.8.

Would you all be trading up? Or would you stay with 5D2's?

To be honest, I'd trade up with one point in the center that worked as well as the Nikon system. I have no problem focusing and recomposing, the problem is getting a decent focus in low-light situations in the first place. 9 points that worked with great ISO like that and equal megapixels would be fantastic as far as I'm concerned.

 

[V8Beast]

Personally for a 5d I dont need 45 point AF anywhere from 11 to 19 would be fine as long as the points are fast accurate and have good focus tracking ability.

Anyone's who has shot with a 5D or 5DII would probably agree. Canon isn't going to put an AF system that comes anywhere close to the 1-series, so the best we can hope for is a handful of cross-sensor AF points that are very accurate, or a buttload of non-cross AF points.

People tend to get fixated on whether AF points are cross-sensitive or not, but IMHO there are benefits of in certain situations of having a greater number of AF points, even if they're not cross-sensors, opposed to having a fewer number of AF points that are cross sensitive. Just for kicks, I dug my old 1DIIn out of the attic today, hooked it up to my 70-300L, and shot some pan blurs of cars in rush hour traffic. In this configuration, only the center point is cross sensitive. You need f/2.8 or faster glass for the other 6 cross sensors to work.

Even a body as antiquated as the 1DII has a nifty AF expansion function that varies based on focal length. At shorter focal lengths, it expands to the 6 AF points adjacent to the chosen AF point, and at 200mm and longer, it expands to the 12 AF points that are adjacent to the chosen AF point. Compared to my time shooting under similar circumstances with a 7D, the 1DII yielded a noticeably higher percentage of sharp, in focus images despite only having one cross-type AF point. If not for the 1DII's extra 26 AF points, I'm certain the 7D would have stomped it.

 

[wickidwombat]

My old 1D mk1 AF kicked the hell out of the 5dmk2 AF