5D X or Mark III Specs & Release Date? [CR1]

[yunusoglu]

If these specs are true, then it seems that there won't be anything coming from Canon aimed straight at studio photographers... I guess, they'll finally make me sell my car for a MF camera...

How is this not aimed at studio photographers? Just because of the AF points, frame speed or not high enough MP? I think this is a great camera for studio photographers. If you made great images with a 5d mk2 with 21.1 MP why can't you make great images with a camera that will probably have better AF and a better Digic 5 image processor?

Sure, when I am in my studio I don't shoot 6.5fps with my camera (40D), but I don't have to in order to create the image.

+1. This camera probably wont please everyone and their needs, but really, what more would you want? a 7D pixel density so you can hear everyone complain that Canon has given up on high IQ?

First of all, let me start by saying that I absolutely have no doubt that the MkIII (or whatever the rumored specs point to) will surely be much better than the MkII.

Having said that, as a 5D MkII using studio photographer, my point was that a camera with the rumored specs unfortunately don't excite me in any way since I absolutely have no need for ANY of the highlighted specs.

7fps? Great, but what do I care? 61 AF points? Superb, but then again, what good for me?
If I upgrade from MkII to MkIII, I will be paying for a lot of features that I don't need.

What I wanted to say was, the rumored specs disappointed me in my wait for a MkIII with a at least 24 megapixels sensor and around 10-11 EV dynamic range. Auto-focusing? Well, a little better AF in low light was all I hoped for.

So my initial post was not about complaining over specs being not good enough, it was about complaining over specs not being in the direction I hoped for.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

These rumored specs seems too good to be true for $2700 (like others have said), considering that things like AF is the same as the 1Dx (more then twice the price) and pretty high frame rate.

And speaking of frame rate, the 1Dx uses 2 Digic 5+ processors. At 12 fps at 18MP= 216MP/sec. Scaling that to a 22 MP sensor, Dual Digic 5+ would be able to move 22MP at nearly 10fts.
One Digic 5+ would maybe do 5fts at 22MP??

So unless the 5d mk3/mkx has dual Digic 5+, I don't see how it can do 6.9fps.
On a single Digic 5+ CPU I can believe anything roughly under 5fps

I am assuming that the 12fps the 1Dx does is limited by data throughput, but the limitation could be mechanical (mirror movement), in which case the upper limit of throughput is below 12fps at 18MP, otherwise Canon would have used just one in the 1Dx.

So far though the digics have never scaled to a full 1:1 speed increase. I think dual digic have often led to like 1.6-1.7 increases not 2x. Although with so many factors in play it's hard to say for sure whether they have reasonable, cost effective ways to get near 2x in this case. Plus it can drive 14fps with mirror up so 14*18=252 and maybe they are only getting 1.65x out of it? 152/7=21.8MP? So it's not completely impossible single digic 5+ could do it.

That said I still find these specs incredibly hard to believe. I really think the 30MP,6fps,nice AF rumors seem a lot more believable. Some tried to count ratios on the back screen and they get results centering around 30MP, although down to 22-23MP is still within margin of error.

The only way I could believe these specs is if Canon got tricked and didn't plan a 30MP sensor at all, got shocked by what their spies told them about D800 too late in the game to make a new sensor and realized that 18-22MP at 5fps and with old AF would get so destroyed by the D800 that they better soup up the body specs like mad and pull a Nikon and take on the D800 by offering more powerful body specs. If it is anything less than these specs and only 18-22MP it would seem to get crushed by the D800. And they figure not many sales for $7000 1DX and the few who afford that will pay for the crazy 12fps and weather sealing and 100% VF and all anyway and better to lose a few sales there than the whole pot and kettle to D800?

But 30MP,6fps,between 7D and 1DX AF just seem more realistic to me.

 

[sailingsilkeborg]

I have to agree with those who questioned how these specs could have a $2700 price tag, when they would deliver so much of what the 1DX has, for $4000 less. Seems like either the specs are overboard, or the price is underestimated-- or a little of both. If I were a betting man, I'd say the specs are overly optimistic-- maybe in the AF and FPS figures.

 

[Loswr]

I'll say it again. Even if 5D3 would come with 12 fps like de 1D X they know how to protect their nr.1 They learned a lesson from 1Ds.

I've said that myself, too. But I'm also considering a different viewpoint - you said it: they learned a lesson from the 1DsIII. When they released the original 5D, it was spec'd substantially lower than the then-current 1DsII, and the 5D sold well. When they released the 5DII, it was spec'd lower than the 1DsIII but used the same sensor, and it sold like f'ing gangbusters. Maybe the lesson they learned from the 1DsIII was to not bother protecting their #1, because a wildly popular 5-series is a cash cow. It could be argued that Canon is already throwing #1 under the bus - they had two 1-series bodies to meet the needs of different market segments, then they merged those two into the 1D X, knowing it would not satisfy both previous markets.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I can't believe the FPS or AF.

If they had said 5-ish fps, and 45 point AF; that I could have believed.

100% agree....the frame rate and AF points are not to be believed, not combined with 22 Mpix at a $2700 price tag. It spits all over the 1Dx's market positioning if that's the actual specs, and this isn't going to be a full frame 7D either, at least not from a frame-rate and AF speed standpoint.

I'd be inclined to believe 5 fps, 19 AF pts, at 22 Mpix full frame, and native ISO to 25,600, expanded to 102,400. Add a wi-fi option for 802.11N and many wedding/studio folks will be happy.

5fps, 19AF 7D AF, 22MP FF would get spit all over by D800 though I think.
If they didn't get a high MP sensor ready then I think it needs the specs listed on this rumor, otherwise forget it.

 

[kpk1]

Good morning from Down Under:
My 2c - we are reaching the end of the Bayer sensor tech and the new releases simply need to convince not only with sensors but with extras that we're used to see only in the 1 series. I believe this will happen - makes me sad a bit because in the next four years a new age of sensors and processors will dawn on the market and, well even the best photos from a 5Dx will look ancient...

And that's not all. I'm more curious what will happen with the mirrorless segment. Like it or not this is the trend.
DSLR days are numbered in way.

My dream camera would be a small body like Fuji X pro 1 or Sony NEX or the Next Olympus E-M5 with A FULL FRAME on it. A modern era Leica with fast AF.
Canon's strategy could be the elders thinking. The last will be the first. They'll see what works on the market and they'll make a move. The G1X is only a time buyer.
Nikon surprised me in a bed way with their 1 series, but that's my way of thinking. On top of engineers are the marketing heads. They want $ first.
Oly, Pana, Fuji, now Pentax and again Oly, they got the mirrorless segment where no one has gone before.

 

[chriztrax]

Any rumors about the movie mode? All I'm hoping for is 1080p at 60fps!! ;D

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It seems unlikely that canon would put the same processor in the mark III or 5 X as they have in the 4 year old mark ii when the digi 5 exists. I just can't see that happening, it supposed to be a new version of one of there hottest sellin camera, not a iPhone 4G to 4GS kind of upgrade.

They said the digic iv for AF, just like what the 1DX has already been officially stated to do.
And digic v or v+ for image processing.

 

[StevenBrianSamuels]

Why so many studio photog haters?

I'd pick this camera up for general use & events, but for the studio it's a pass.

Yes, it IS about MP. A 36+ MP camera would put many of us studio folks closer in the race with the MF studio photographers, at the lower end of course. But still a foot in the door without having to shell out 50k-100k+ for MF cameras, digital backs, and new $$$ glass.

I guess people just dont understand that higher end ad agencies REQUIRE at least 30mp photos (some 40+). They need the ability to crop and scale how they wish without loss in quality. They want the images for a variety of uses as well, magazine, billboard, etc.

I would take a 5dwhatever with 1 central AF point and 100 iso only. Now, occasionally, I rent an old PhaseOne setup from a local semi-retired fashion photographer, which cuts into my budget, and my savings for my own system.

A high MP 5d would allow many of us to use our existing glass, and open up doors to better paying jobs without selling our homes. It would also allow us to save up for that MP gear for a few years longer. I do think I will eventually need to switch to MF at some point if the higher paying jobs increase enough to justify the leap (and it's a huge leap). My own business model is based on clients first, gear second, not the other way around. (Except when first starting out of course).

The 5d USE to be a lower cost (compared to MF), high MP, studio/landscape camera until the 5d2 made it into something different. Which is all fine and good, its a nice multi use camera but I dont need the higher isos or fps for my job (personally I would love it).

I really hope we see a line split between 5d event/low light lovers & 5d Studio/landscape folks. I may even by both and a new 7d for birding (one camera to rule them all is a dream).

You seem to have missed the fact that as soon as 35mm systems start to offer >30MP, the agencies will start to demand 40MP+. Most of them don't really need >30MP, I'm sure they have this minimum requirement to stop them being pestered by amateurs...

Actually, many already ask for 40MP+. It has nothing at all with keeping out amateurs, and everything to do with image quality and multiple uses. I think the "keep out amateurs" is some internet myth. Many smaller agencies are willing to deal with 20-30 MP range, though with time these agencies will grow (if they survive) and they will move up that as well based on client needs. I'm trying to keep up with some med sized agencies I already work with and are slowly demanding more, for less of course. If I can land 1 large agency job with a 36MP+ camera that would be a bonus.

Many landscape photographers that I know are also waiting for a big MP hike from canon.

 

[bigblue1ca]

But, it's my contention that competition at this level is less of a factor than you might think. How many prople jump into the dSLR realm with the purchase of a FF camera and lens(es) which will cost over $3K? Not many. I think the real competition occurs at the entry level, and them most consumers stick with that brand, either out of loyalty, familarity, or most commonly already being bought into the system with EF lenses, flashes, etc. Canon's need is to induce people with 5D/5DII to upgrade and those with CAnon APS-C bodies to go FF - a camera with the rumored spec would likely do those quite well.

I agree with Neuro (yet again). As someone new to the DSLR world (one year) my purchasing thoughts are still fresh in my mind. I wanted to buy Canon because my P&Ss had been Canon and I was satisfied with the brand. I looked at the T3i, 60D, 7D, and the 5DII. My knowledge of crop vs. FF consisted of FF was probably better because it cost more, but that was basically it, so what if it had a bigger sensor, what did that do??? Lol. In the end I ruled out the 5DII kit primarily on fps more than anything....although $3200 at the time was/is not pocket change and spending that on a FF camera when I didn't understand the true benefits of FF seemed questionable. So instead I looked at the T3i, 60D, and 7D, the T3i was too small in my hands, the 7D I didn't appreciate the advanced AF, so it looked darn close to the 60D. So not recognizing the benefits of 7D and its higher price tag I went with the 60D. It was only when I started to photograph my daughters' sports this past summer/fall and now into the winter did I realize, damn should have got the 7D. But, even then it doesn't matter because shooting their indoor sports this winter and learning a whole lot about photography in general, has put me into the market for a system with good AF, good FPS, and very good low noise at high ISOs (3200-12800)....namely this 5DX (if this just isn't someone's wish list) or 1DX.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

available in april? I dont think so....

and 61 af points? that is not possible. People wont be buying the 1DX then. Id think its something more like 12

With 12pts and 22MP people won't be buying the 5D3 then and remember this needs to seem current until at least 2015 most likely.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Good evening to everyone!! This is my first post on this forum, and it happens to be a question...

How on earth is canon going to keep competition with nikon (provided the d800 is a 36mp camera) with a camera that's most likely going to have a 22mp sensor (regardless of other features)?? Is something wrong in this picture or it's just me?

It's not just you and that is why if it's not the 30MP body then it will need all these 7-7.5fps, 1DX AF type specs.

 

[kpk1]

I'll say it again. Even if 5D3 would come with 12 fps like de 1D X they know how to protect their nr.1 They learned a lesson from 1Ds.

I've said that myself, too. But I'm also considering a different viewpoint - you said it: they learned a lesson from the 1DsIII. When they released the original 5D, it was spec'd substantially lower than the then-current 1DsII, and the 5D sold well. When they released the 5DII, it was spec'd lower than the 1DsIII but used the same sensor, and it sold like f'ing gangbusters. Maybe the lesson they learned from the 1DsIII was to not bother protecting their #1, because a wildly popular 5-series is a cash cow. It could be argued that Canon is already throwing #1 under the bus -

You're right. The 5D2 was a damn fat cow. I bet even if they wouldn't sold not even 2 1Ds bodies at the succes of the 5D2 they're not upset, by contrary they are happy

they had two 1-series bodies to meet the needs of different market segments, then they merged those two into the 1D X, knowing it would not satisfy both previous markets.

I said it earlier, they never emerged 1D with 1Ds. The 1D X is an evolution 1D. The "s" will reborn latter.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

available in april? I dont think so....
and 61 af points? that is not possible. People wont be buying the 1DX then. Id think its something more like 12

I'll say it again. Even if 5D3 would come with 12 fps like de 1D X they know how to protect their nr.1 They learned a lesson from 1Ds.
Think only at the buffer level. If 1D X is capable of taking, let's say 100 jpegs in a row because of the buffer at 12 fps and 5D3 will take only 20 shoots at 7 fps and if you're a professional sport shooter, what would you choose ... the speed or the buffer ? In both cases 1D X wins hands down.
Pro AF, dual card slot, higher AF system, those are not cost effective that much.
In the end I think Canon learned from the Nikon strategy: give photographers what they'll need and they'll buy it.

Looking in Nikon's camp I'll bet that D800 and D4 aren't the only ones that we'll see. A D800 with a D4 sensor or something close is on the way. Think only that they are the first that put a small megapixel sensor in a professional body.

They could cripple the buffer so badly that the 7fps becomes only moderately useful, of course for those who dug into the specs, that wouldn't help the cam look so good (not that a truly humungous 1DX buffer would be expected either).

 

[kpk1]

available in april? I dont think so....

and 61 af points? that is not possible. People wont be buying the 1DX then. Id think its something more like 12

With 12pts and 22MP people won't be buying the 5D3 then and remember this needs to seem current until at least 2015 most likely.

I don't need 12 fps, I don't need 36 mpx, I don't many other things.
Do you know I have a 5D2 with only 11 mpx ?! This is because I never use L or RAW, just sRAW1 which is good.
So I need a small megapixel sensor with (READ IT CANON) GREAT DR, GREAT ISO in a simple body with more direct accesible settings (buttons) and a GOOD AF in low light.
How can I use fixed lenses with a poor AF ?!
It's that hard ?!

 

[sublime LightWorks]

I can't believe the FPS or AF.

If they had said 5-ish fps, and 45 point AF; that I could have believed.

100% agree....the frame rate and AF points are not to be believed, not combined with 22 Mpix at a $2700 price tag. It spits all over the 1Dx's market positioning if that's the actual specs, and this isn't going to be a full frame 7D either, at least not from a frame-rate and AF speed standpoint.

I'd be inclined to believe 5 fps, 19 AF pts, at 22 Mpix full frame, and native ISO to 25,600, expanded to 102,400. Add a wi-fi option for 802.11N and many wedding/studio folks will be happy.

5fps, 19AF 7D AF, 22MP FF would get spit all over by D800 though I think.
If they didn't get a high MP sensor ready then I think it needs the specs listed on this rumor, otherwise forget it.

D800 isn't an Apples to Apples....the rumored specs for the D800 (per Nikon Rumors) has that camera at 36Mpix and 4 fps, and said to be $4000.

 

[waving_odd]

But Canon's goal is to make money, total profit is what matters, not profit per camera line. This may represent a strategic shift - combine the 1-series lines to a single body to reduce R&D costs, put top technology in an 'affordable' camera that to the casual eye looks a LOT like the top of the line pro camera, which boosts sales of that 5-series model (a great price for a baby 1D X), and the unit sales of the 5-series more than makes up for lost sales on the 1D X.

+1

If this new 5D or [n]D turns out to have these wishful specs and is still Canon's entry level FF with the affordable price tag, it's no brainer for a lot of wedding protogs and indie videographers. They might not have the same high budget as those Olympics journalists have.

So it sounds like there will be $300-1200 price diff between Canon's and Nikon's (D800) entry-level FF. And looks like Canon's one is more towards wedding protogs, whereas Nikon's one is more towards studio / architecture / landscape (landscape shooters will love the AA removal option) protogs.

Seems like there is no mentioning of ISO yet. I hope its highest native ISO is at least 1 stop better than the rumored D800, given that they manage to have 6400 on a 36MP FF sensor.

 

[NotABunny]

What differentiates it from the 1DX?

Shutter / body life (let's say you need two 5Ds to get the life of a 1D, then you pay similarly), build (as in sealing, resistance and precision), 12 FPS, a larger battery life and more physical buttons for a more efficient workflow, dual card support.

A 1D is a camera like a Mercedes is a car (I'll keep the Bugatti Veyron comparison for medium format). They are for people who know what they want / need.

These rumored specs seems too good to be true for $2700

Canon knows how well 5D2 sold, they know how much interest 5D3 has generated, they know that people will buy this body in droves. Ever since this website came to life, the 5D3 was the most expected thing; just look at this thread - 7 pages in a few hours, all threads about 5D3 have pages galore. Canon exists to make money. With these specs and this price they know that they will make more than with a lower specced body.



You should also remember that just before the tsunami, there was a rumor about the new 5D having a different sensor than the new 1D. Then again, it was just a rumor, like this one.

P.S. Come to think of it, I think that rumor didn't say 5D, but one other high-end body.

 

[BDD]

Geeez!!! I post a few hours earlier and return to find several pages more. THat was quick. Even if this is a hot topic.

As for Canon putting out a "studio photography" oriented camera in the 5D3...with high MP...I REALLY hope not. Nikon is already doing that with their D800. I hope Canon does deliver a camera with the specs listed today + the same native ISO range of the 1D-X. If they do...I'm placing an order.

And I too don't believe in doing so the sales of the 1D-X will be affected in any way. There are design features and functionality that would only be found in a flagship camera. And a camera with a built-in portrait grip.

Hope we get some good news on the 28th.

 

[K-amps]

available in april? I dont think so....

For sure it is. Release date is April 1st. Trust me! ;D

We trust you! ;D