5D4 Sensor Defect Discovered

[Mikehit]

I recall speaking to a friend who joined one of these 4 wheel-drive fanatic clubs and was somewhat bemused to hear how some of them relish torrential rain so it gives them chance to find a big wallow, and drive into it, fully intending to get stuck so they can use their new toy (aka the winch mounted on the front grille) to pull themselves out again, wrapping the towline round the nearest tree.

Some of these 'tests' remind me of that...

Perhaps there is a new phrase to be added to the photographer's lexicon 'To do an Exmoor'.

 

[Loswr]

Unfivestopliftable. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Stop correcting others. Nobody cares what you think you know.

con·text ˈkäntekst/ noun
1. the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

hu·mor ˈ(h)yo͞omər/ noun
1. the quality of being amusing or comic, especially as expressed in literature or speech.

quod kwäd/ noun
1. a forum entity who fails to appreciate context and apparently lacks a sense of humor

 

[romanr74]

Unfivestopliftable. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Stop correcting others. Nobody cares what you think you know.

Difficult to disagree...

 

[M_S]

Unfivestopliftable. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Stop correcting others. Nobody cares what you think you know.

Difficult to disagree...

Always the same lately. One writes something he/she encountered which points out something. That someting could be interpreted as a negative point on the Mark4 or Canon by some and very soon the defenders are there and the whole bashing starts. And goes on and on and on.
It sometimes seems or reads, that most here in the forum are either payed by canon or go to bed with canon or work at canon. And Canon in general is the best thing since sliced bread and no critique, no pointing out is in order. Almost as if pointing out or putting out a thesis is immediately a general war against canon and the fans are here to the rescue. Who gives really. If this is the getting the norm than improvements are out of the window.
If Dave Dugdale can post a video what he wishes the next Sony iteration should have, then I don't see a lot of people complaining that this is not true and the latest Sony is perfect fault free and there is nothing, really nothing to improve. This here in the forums is utter bull as of late. Mark IV is not perfect as is every other camera on the market. Putting the finger on things can help to improve on that. Praising doesn't help. Ever.

 

[Loswr]

Unfivestopliftable. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Stop correcting others. Nobody cares what you think you know.

Difficult to disagree...

Thank you so much for bringing up such a painful subject. While you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?

 

[Loswr]

Unfivestopliftable. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Stop correcting others. Nobody cares what you think you know.

Difficult to disagree...

Always the same lately. One writes something he/she encountered which points out something. That someting could be interpreted as a negative point on the Mark4 or Canon by some and very soon the defenders are there and the whole bashing starts. And goes on and on and on.
It sometimes seems or reads, that most here in the forum are either payed by canon or go to bed with canon or work at canon. And Canon in general is the best thing since sliced bread and no critique, no pointing out is in order. Almost as if pointing out or putting out a thesis is immediately a general war against canon and the fans are here to the rescue. Who gives really. If this is the getting the norm than improvements are out of the window.
If Dave Dugdale can post a video what he wishes the next Sony iteration should have, then I don't see a lot of people complaining that this is not true and the latest Sony is perfect fault free and there is nothing, really nothing to improve. This here in the forums is utter bull as of late. Mark IV is not perfect as is every other camera on the market. Putting the finger on things can help to improve on that. Praising doesn't help. Ever.

Oh, the sot has spoken. What happens to the 5DIV is not truly your concern.

 

[tron]

We have met the enemy and he is us. Having to boost a photo 5 stops is not a sensor defect, something else is defective.

Thank you for stating the obvious. I stopped reading after, "I underexposed by 5 stops ..." Insanity.

+1 In addition of the +5 stops he lifted the shadows so he practically lifted the shadows a total of 7 to 8 stops????????????

 

[Mikehit]

Always the same lately. One writes something he/she encountered which points out something. That someting could be interpreted as a negative point on the Mark4 or Canon by some and very soon the defenders are there and the whole bashing starts. And goes on and on and on.
It sometimes seems or reads, that most here in the forum are either payed by canon or go to bed with canon or work at canon. And Canon in general is the best thing since sliced bread and no critique, no pointing out is in order. Almost as if pointing out or putting out a thesis is immediately a general war against canon and the fans are here to the rescue. Who gives really. If this is the getting the norm than improvements are out of the window.
If Dave Dugdale can post a video what he wishes the next Sony iteration should have, then I don't see a lot of people complaining that this is not true and the latest Sony is perfect fault free and there is nothing, really nothing to improve. This here in the forums is utter bull as of late. Mark IV is not perfect as is every other camera on the market. Putting the finger on things can help to improve on that. Praising doesn't help. Ever.

A-a-and you miss the point.
This is not about fanboy at all - please point to me who has said that the 'improvements' pointed out should not be included. Some have said that they do not find them necessary or would not use them. No-one is defending 'the norm' but many of us (as has been said countless times) understand the compromises any manufacturer makes when designing a product to a price (and all products are designed to a price) and think Canon make the best compromises for them.

What there has been is a response to those people who ue ridiculous statements like (a) Canon is incompetent in defining what photographers need , (b) Canon will go bust due to their lack of ability to work out how the market is changing (c) claiming Canon is missing the market yet want a combination of features that no other manufacturer is even close to offering (d) insisting on changes that will increase the cost of an already expensive camera to the point it will be a financial failure or (e) wanting a combination of the Sony A7 series, the 1Dx2 and the 1Dc in a body the size of a 5D with no increase in cost (it has even been suggested it is a good idea that Canon slash their profits in a bid to corner the market).

If someone says 'I would like to see....' is one thing. It is helpful. It is a critique. But on the internet, words and tone are the only thing we can use, and there are far too many (often those with single-digit posts, coming onto the site just to complain) who come across as whiney 5 years olds who didn't get what they wanted in their Christmas stocking.
But making comments like that then slamming anyone who disagree as a 'fanboy' is no better than what you accuse those 'fanboys' of.

 

[sandymandy]

Looks just like the normal Canon banding "issue" to me. They always got this stuff. 5dmk2, 1dx, etc. Its just how Canon sensors work. But well whos gonna push so many stops anyway and never resizes their photos? So i dont think its a serious issue. Just an unimportant one.

 

[tron]

There is a CR3 that there will be a sensor "defect" in 5DMkV when we underexpose 8 stops during shootings and then add 8 stops in post and at the same time boost shadows to 100% ;D ;D ;D

 

[Refurb7]

There is a CR3 that there will be a sensor "defect" in 5DMkV when we underexpose 8 stops during shootings and then add 8 stops in post and at the same time boost shadows to 100% ;D ;D ;D

It's like he classic Henny Youngman joke:
The patient says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor says, "Then don't do that!"

Updated for Canon Rumors:
Photographer says, "CR Forum, I see defects when I underexpose by 8 stops."
CR Forum says, "Then don't underexpose by 8 stops!"

 

[tron]

There is a CR3 that there will be a sensor "defect" in 5DMkV when we underexpose 8 stops during shootings and then add 8 stops in post and at the same time boost shadows to 100% ;D ;D ;D

It's like he classic Henny Youngman joke:
The patient says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor says, "Then don't do that!"

Updated for Canon Rumors:
Photographer says, "CR Forum, I see defects when I underexpose by 8 stops."
CR Forum says, "Then don't underexpose by 8 stops!"

Except for the 8 stops case updated for the doctor's case:
The patient says, "Doctor, it hurts when I hit my head on the wall!"
Doctor says, "Then don't do that!"

EDIT: Now I feel a little fool. I have the same problem in blacks and I underexposed 4 stops. After that I overexpose 4 stops and there is not even need to increase shadows. The problem is there. This behavior is even worse than my 5D3. I have posted photos at page 10 of this thread.

 

[LSXPhotog]

The purpose of this demonstration was to show the problem easier for readers to see, not to say this is what I do and what you should do. The problem exists at any push and is only exaggerated at this level to show it more clearly. I saw these same issues pushed 3 stops and 4 stops, albeit to a lesser extent.

I appreciate your responses, how off topic and diluting it may be to the thread. It's a shame nobody could explain why this sensor does this when other sensors don't...not that anyone here should be doing this in their everyday photography, it just shows a peculiar flaw that the sensor exhibits that others don't. But, I suppose it's hard to get any answers when the banter becomes a mockery of the topic.

Good day,
Kevin

 

[Mikehit]

The purpose of this demonstration was to show the problem easier for readers to see, not to say this is what I do and what you should do. The problem exists at any push and is only exaggerated at this level to show it more clearly. I saw these same issues pushed 3 stops and 4 stops, albeit to a lesser extent.

I appreciate your responses, how off topic and diluting it may be to the thread. It's a shame nobody could explain why this sensor does this when other sensors don't...not that anyone here should be doing this in their everyday photography, it just shows a peculiar flaw that the sensor exhibits that others don't. But, I suppose it's hard to get any answers when the banter becomes a mockery of the topic.

Good day,
Kevin

Problem...flaw...those very words will get a response.

Any reasons as to why the Canon happens but not other sensors requires a technical understanding of multiple manufacturer's technology and I would be very surprised if anyone could answer it. So banter happens because no-one knows, rather than the other way round.

 

[3kramd5]

The purpose of this demonstration was to show the problem easier for readers to see, not to say this is what I do and what you should do. The problem exists at any push and is only exaggerated at this level to show it more clearly. I saw these same issues pushed 3 stops and 4 stops, albeit to a lesser extent.

I appreciate your responses, how off topic and diluting it may be to the thread. It's a shame nobody could explain why this sensor does this when other sensors don't...not that anyone here should be doing this in their everyday photography, it just shows a peculiar flaw that the sensor exhibits that others don't. But, I suppose it's hard to get any answers when the banter becomes a mockery of the topic.

Good day,
Kevin

Problem...flaw...those very words will get a response.

Any reasons as to why the Canon happens but not other sensors requires a technical understanding of multiple manufacturer's technology and I would be very surprised if anyone could answer it. So banter happens because no-one knows, rather than the other way round.

Agreed and, in addition, nobody knows exactly how Adobe's software affects the end result.

 

[M_S]

Unfivestopliftable. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Stop correcting others. Nobody cares what you think you know.

Difficult to disagree...

Always the same lately. One writes something he/she encountered which points out something. That someting could be interpreted as a negative point on the Mark4 or Canon by some and very soon the defenders are there and the whole bashing starts. And goes on and on and on.
It sometimes seems or reads, that most here in the forum are either payed by canon or go to bed with canon or work at canon. And Canon in general is the best thing since sliced bread and no critique, no pointing out is in order. Almost as if pointing out or putting out a thesis is immediately a general war against canon and the fans are here to the rescue. Who gives really. If this is the getting the norm than improvements are out of the window.
If Dave Dugdale can post a video what he wishes the next Sony iteration should have, then I don't see a lot of people complaining that this is not true and the latest Sony is perfect fault free and there is nothing, really nothing to improve. This here in the forums is utter bull as of late. Mark IV is not perfect as is every other camera on the market. Putting the finger on things can help to improve on that. Praising doesn't help. Ever.

Oh, the sot has spoken. What happens to the 5DIV is not truly your concern.

I rest my case.

 

[unfocused]

The purpose of this demonstration was to show the problem easier for readers to see, not to say this is what I do and what you should do. The problem exists at any push and is only exaggerated at this level to show it more clearly. I saw these same issues pushed 3 stops and 4 stops, albeit to a lesser extent.

I appreciate your responses, how off topic and diluting it may be to the thread. It's a shame nobody could explain why this sensor does this when other sensors don't...not that anyone here should be doing this in their everyday photography, it just shows a peculiar flaw that the sensor exhibits that others don't. But, I suppose it's hard to get any answers when the banter becomes a mockery of the topic.

Good day,
Kevin

Problem...flaw...those very words will get a response.

Any reasons as to why the Canon happens but not other sensors requires a technical understanding of multiple manufacturer's technology and I would be very surprised if anyone could answer it. So banter happens because no-one knows, rather than the other way round.

Agreed and, in addition, nobody knows exactly how Adobe's software affects the end result.

I agree. However, when someone starts a thread with the title "defect detected" using the very thin evidence presented, no one should be surprised that that claim is criticized.

It's also a bit disingenuous (or incredibly naive) to pretend that the sole purpose for starting this thread was an academic discussion of characteristics that a sensor may demonstrate when pushed beyond the limits it was designed for. Particularly when the OP wrote "but let's be real! This shouldn't happen at all PERIOD..."

The fact is, anyone who has read any reviews of Canon's latest sensors should not be surprised by the results. As the much-maligned DPReview has pointed out in their generally glowing reviews of the 1DX II, 80D and 5D IV, Canon has made significant improvements in their sensors, but for those for whom the ability to push shadows beyond what most users would consider reasonable is of utmost importance, Canon is still slightly behind their competitors at low ISO.

For most of us, including me, it doesn't matter. I bought into the Canon system for many, many reasons and pushing shadows was never in the top 50. That's not to say, that I don't appreciate the latitude that the new technology provides me, I'm just saying it was never my top priority or even a major concern.

When you post to a forum and make assertions, you cannot later whine when others disagree. Two lessons, that should be self-evident, but apparently aren't: 1) As Mikehit points out, if you are looking for detailed technical explanations for obscure phenomena, this ain't the place; and 2) Just like baseball, there is no crying in forum posting. If you make a assertion that obviously is designed to spark controversy, don't go crying when some of the controversy get tossed back in your face.

 

[Azathoth]

Comment removed by Moderator

 

[LSXPhotog]

OK, I've learned my lesson with this group. They get offended by anything that doesn't talk about the awesomeness of Canon...

Please take note that at no point did I try to backpedal, many of you just simply couldn't read and even admitted to stopping because of the context. God forbid anyone discover another weird anomaly with this camera!

Meanwhile, I've been using my 5DIV daily and love it. Already shot a race weekend, 5 automotive magazine features, a portrait session, a journalism story, a home, and a promotional poster.

 

[dak723]

Always the same lately. One writes something he/she encountered which points out something. That someting could be interpreted as a negative point on the Mark4 or Canon by some and very soon the defenders are there and the whole bashing starts. And goes on and on and on.
It sometimes seems or reads, that most here in the forum are either payed by canon or go to bed with canon or work at canon. And Canon in general is the best thing since sliced bread and no critique, no pointing out is in order.

No one minds a fair review. No one minds a fair critique. No one minds an interesting discussion. No one minds a legitimate question.

What we do mind - because we are Canon users who like photography and want to dicsuss our gear and photography - are threads that declare "Defect Discovered" or "Why Canon is way behind" or "Canon sucks and cripples their cameras". Those threads are not fair reviews or critiques. Those threads are not an interesting discussion. If you think they are - well, good for you. You're entitled to your opinion. Some of us don't think so and believe the endless whining and complaining ruins this forum.

If you think your Canon camera is defective, then return it for a refund. Maybe it is defective - I don't believe anyone ever states that no Canon camera has ever been defective and needed to be returned. When I bought my 6D, I thought it was overexposing a bit. I didn't start an internet thread about it, I exchanged the camera for another (which was much better). In other words, I dealt with it. I didn't assume that all 6D's were overexposing. I didn't assume that Canon sucks and can't make a good camera. I didn't whine and complain. Not saying the OP of this thread is guilty of these things, but so many here are. They whine and complain, rather than dealing with reality as an adult does. Is that asking too much - that people here act like adults? Maybe it is.