5DS scores at DXO **now posted**

[benperrin]

My mind just exploded. Everything he said made sense, and it was a reasonable position.

Tony Northrup has been kidnapped. I'll alert the authorities.

- A

You obviously didn't see his previous video about the d810 vs the 5dsr. He previously said that he thought the Canon was better and the extra megapixels makes a difference (at least for some people). I know people love to bash TN but I've found that he's one of the least biased people on the internet. And the amount of abuse that him and others like him have to take is amazing. He's much better than those Sony "artisans" who are just painful to watch due to the amount of bs flowing from their mouths.

Talk about over your head. That was uh, kinda his point.

I don't know, everyone I talk to seems to point out that TN is full of it. I always point out that he tries to be as logical as possible. If this was sarcasm there was no easy way to detect it and no need for you to be so rude about it.

 

[bdunbar79]

Ok, just kidding. Sorry.

 

[benperrin]

No worries. To tell you the truth I often find internet lingo hard to detect. It's not as easy as a face to face conversation. Just one of those things.

 

[bdunbar79]

Oh yeah I agree. I have to re read my posts sometimes. Thank you.

 

[old-pr-pix]

Agreed that TN is pretty straight in all his comments. He seems open to criticism from his followers and is trainable in that he will re-do tests or re-think positions when errors are discovered. The trouble seems to be that he usually does not go back and re-edit old videos. He recently pointed out himself how beat-up he had been because his video review was critical of certain aspects of the Fuji XT-1. His video was made based on the original firmware release. Fuji has since addressed essentially all his criticisms with firmware updates. Yet, critics complain that TN doesn't know what he is doing since Fuji has none of the issues he points out in the video. Different firmware = different camera.

All that said, I do question how deeply he investigates the parameters surrounding focus tracking ability of various bodies. It seems to be more of a "just out of the box" test without fine tuning. Since he shoots a lot of BIF I would assume he has his 5DIII and 7DII pretty well dialed-in. Other bodies maybe not so much.

 

[9VIII]

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/dxomark-test-canon-5ds-sensor-is-far-behind-the-sony-a7r-sensor-quality/

Wow...
SAR should be ashamed for supporting DxO brandwashing everywhere but a short, lame, tacked on disclaimer at the end of the article.
It's an extreme analogy, but the same dilemma: If people die because a murderer likes media attention...
(And no I don't think "Canon" or "the 5Ds" would be "people" in this analogy, it's more along the lines of logic dying at the hands of click-bait. They may as well be proclaiming that Unicorns were discovered in North Korea.)


http://northrup.photo/canon-5ds-r-dxomark-scores-why-you-shouldnt-care/

So, how do you pick between the 5DS-R and the D810? Pick the Canon or Nikon lens system first, then get the body that matches. Glass is generally more important. Then, stop looking at charts at start shooting.

Tony's article is a nice surprise. Well done.

 

[emko]

so looking at the numbers 5DS has more detail because it has more megapixels but the Nikons have more DR and less noise just like it was expected what exactly is wrong with these results? yes the rating number is stupid but the other numbers are really not. IF you need MP and don't need DR or use higher ISO Canon is a great camera for you and the results show that but if you need MP DR and ISO you can get that at 36MP currently and 42MP with the new Sony sensor.

I am trying to figure out if i want to switch to A7RII but that Camera is really bothering me with the battery usage and the NON RAW files or switch to a Nikon with that sensor but then i cant use all the Canon glass i have

 

[emko]

Well good for TN stating "note that dynamic range only impacts your picture if you raise the exposure in your photo in post processing, or if you raise the shadows".

Hopefully we are now getting past the point where the way to test a sensor's "IQ" on the Internet is to underexpose by about six stops and then push in post, and see which copes with it best.

Very, very misleading for the vast majority of applications.

its not about the 6 stops its that when you push the shadows at all on Canon sensors you get noise and patterns faster then on a Nikon, oh and sometimes you don't even need to touch the shadows and you can see the noise.

 

[emko]

Well good for TN stating "note that dynamic range only impacts your picture if you raise the exposure in your photo in post processing, or if you raise the shadows".

Hopefully we are now getting past the point where the way to test a sensor's "IQ" on the Internet is to underexpose by about six stops and then push in post, and see which copes with it best.

Very, very misleading for the vast majority of applications.

its not about the 6 stops its that when you push the shadows at all on Canon sensors you get noise and patterns faster then on a Nikon, oh and sometimes you don't even need to touch the shadows and you can see the noise.

Bollocks

are you suggesting that Canon shadows are as clean as Nikons really? come on

Canon is even known for that pattern noise "banding" it has in shadows

 

[Eldar]

Yes, the shadow noise is better on Exmor. But the 5DS/5DSR is in my view close enough. I was visiting a friend´s summer house the other day and kind of liked his dining area. This is shot handheld, with the 11-24mm (did not bring a tripod), in available light. As can be seen in picture one, which is RAW to JPEG with LR defaults, this is massively under exposed, due to the highlights in the background and the histogram is pretty full.

 

[Eldar]

Here is a quickly processed version, done on my laptop.

Exposure +1.50
Highlights -100
Shadows +100
Whites +55
Saturation: +12
Blue luminance -35
Noise reduction luminance 25

I can live with this ...

 

[justaCanonuser]

let me ask a naive question --

Let's assume that the DxO measures are correct and the Sony sensors have better dynamic range, ....

In the end, so what ? How much of a difference really matters? Does DxO measure anything that really matters or are the difference small enough not to be important except in a few rare cases?

That is the hot debate. For some it probably is important, for others not at all.

In particular bad photographers shooting landscapes at noon need as much DR as possible 8)

I wonder why everybody debates DR but nearly nobody as much the color depth problem - which is much more important for photography IMHO. This is the area in which digital photography still falls really back behind good film. 12, 14 or 16 or a few more bits of color depth is nothing compared with the analogue color rendition of a fine classic film (Velvia!). National Geographic photographer Norbert Rosing who is famous for his arctic themes told recently in a German interview that he is working on a new book based on his latest analogue slides. He stressed the fact that only film yet can render the subtle color changes in snow/ice landscapes in a satisfying way. I am just an amateur but sometimes reside to analogue slides exactly because of the same reason. So I think color rendition is the most important area in which digital photography still needs to improve.

 

[ksgal]

Just saw this from our good friend Tony;
http://northrup.photo/canon-5ds-r-dxomark-scores-why-you-shouldnt-care/

And I just read the comments.. and came across this:

Tony Northrup July 14, 2015 at 11:47 am

"The focusing of the a7R II definitely won’t be the same–at least with the beta versions, you can’t select the autofocus point while using adapted lenses…

Let that sink in. During a portrait, the camera might decide to focus on the nose or ear, and not the near eye, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Without being able to select the focusing point, adapted lenses are good only for the most casual snapshots or when manual focusing."

Makes the camera a total non starter for me - I like my glass, and while I do covet a mirrorless Sony, I think this emphasizes to me that it will be an addition, not a replacement, in my bag - and with a Sony lens.

 

[3kramd5]

I am trying to figure out if i want to switch to A7RII but that Camera is really bothering me with the battery usage and the NON RAW files or switch to a Nikon with that sensor but then i cant use all the Canon glass i have

Just wait and see how good/bad the battery is. I keep two batteries on me at all times but never need the second one unless I've forgotten to recharge.

The manual states (on a full charge basis at 25°C, default brightnesses and display quality, with Display All Info enabled, AF-S enabled, shooting one frame every 30 seconds, and cycling the power once every 5 minutes):
~340 stills using the LCD
~290 stills using the EVF

 

[Loswr]

Just saw this from our good friend Tony;
http://northrup.photo/canon-5ds-r-dxomark-scores-why-you-shouldnt-care/

And I just read the comments.. and came across this:

Tony Northrup July 14, 2015 at 11:47 am

"The focusing of the a7R II definitely won’t be the same–at least with the beta versions, you can’t select the autofocus point while using adapted lenses…

Let that sink in. During a portrait, the camera might decide to focus on the nose or ear, and not the near eye, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Without being able to select the focusing point, adapted lenses are good only for the most casual snapshots or when manual focusing."

Makes the camera a total non starter for me - I like my glass, and while I do covet a mirrorless Sony, I think this emphasizes to me that it will be an addition, not a replacement, in my bag - and with a Sony lens.

If true, that really renders all the comments about AF speed improvements with 3rd party (e.g. Canon) lenses moot. But a) it's with a prerelease version and b) it's TN, so let's wait and see.

 

[3kramd5]

If true, that really renders all the comments about AF speed improvements with 3rd party (e.g. Canon) lenses moot. But a) it's with a prerelease version and b) it's TN, so let's wait and see.

It seems like a strange limitation. I imagine it would be harder to use them all than to force-select just one.

Shrug, I plan to use mine mostly on MF or with the zeiss 25 f/2, so I don't really care.

 

[ritholtz]

Just saw this from our good friend Tony;
http://northrup.photo/canon-5ds-r-dxomark-scores-why-you-shouldnt-care/

And I just read the comments.. and came across this:

Tony Northrup July 14, 2015 at 11:47 am

"The focusing of the a7R II definitely won’t be the same–at least with the beta versions, you can’t select the autofocus point while using adapted lenses…

Let that sink in. During a portrait, the camera might decide to focus on the nose or ear, and not the near eye, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Without being able to select the focusing point, adapted lenses are good only for the most casual snapshots or when manual focusing."

Makes the camera a total non starter for me - I like my glass, and while I do covet a mirrorless Sony, I think this emphasizes to me that it will be an addition, not a replacement, in my bag - and with a Sony lens.

This is exactly what I noticed in DPR focus test review video. Everyone is very upbeat about AF with third party lens (Canon) in comments section. But in test video, it kept on focusing nose every time without failing. Not sure if they really trying to focus on noses.

 

[ritholtz]

Here is a quickly processed version, done on my laptop.

Exposure +1.50
Highlights -100
Shadows +100
Whites +55
Saturation: +12
Blue luminance -35
Noise reduction luminance 25

I can live with this ...

Hi Eldar,
It looks very nice. Is there any need for pushing more than this in real world use. I also noticed some kinda of orange color caste while pushing shadow slider on dxo optics. How do you adjust color casts?
Using DPP, I am able to brighten shadows by adjusting mid tones in gamma adjustment graph by -2 stops. Is it same as pushing shadow slider? DPP sliders can only go from -5 to +5 instead of -100 to +100.

Thanks

 

[Loswr]

DPP sliders can only go from -5 to +5 instead of -100 to +100.

Canon's poor DR again?

 

[Eldar]

Here is a quickly processed version, done on my laptop.

Exposure +1.50
Highlights -100
Shadows +100
Whites +55
Saturation: +12
Blue luminance -35
Noise reduction luminance 25

I can live with this ...

Hi Eldar,
It looks very nice. Is there any need for pushing more than this in real world use. I also noticed some kinda of orange color caste while pushing shadow slider on dxo optics. How do you adjust color casts?
Using DPP, I am able to brighten shadows by adjusting mid tones in gamma adjustment graph by -2 stops. Is it same as pushing shadow slider? DPP sliders can only go from -5 to +5 instead of -100 to +100.

Thanks

Ritholtz, I´m not the right person to ask for advice on post processing. There are hundreds on this forum better than me. I just posted this as a rather extreme example. Very bright sky in the back ground, only natural light and lots of very dark shadow inside etc. I don´t believe I have ever tried to make a usable picture of something worse than this. It is clearly not noise free, but I think the result, after just a couple of minutes playing on a laptop, is quite good.

I have never really used DPP, so I cannot comment on that. If I decide to work more on the remaining noise issues on the image I posted, I transfer it to my iMac, which also has a calibrated Eizo monitor and play around with the noise reduction capabilities LR provide.