7d mark II AF calibration issues - Would you send it in?

[Danzq]

Hi everyone!

I have the 7d2 and tamrons 24-70mm 2.8 + canon 50mm 1.4 and Im about to lose my mental health with this AFMA so I really need some advice here!

How did I AFMA?: Body on tripod, 2sec delay, 10 shots per set (first at around 2-3m and then at 5-6m), rotated focus ring in between shots (1st shot front 2nd back and so on...) Target chart on a table ( that's covered with a white towel) and at the same level few meters away from the wall.

I've been trying to AFMA my lenses for the past 2 days now with great effort but Im still not pleased. My problem is that the amount of adjustment needed varies greatly (especially with the Tamron). For me it seems like the camera is front focusing more the further you are from the target.

With the 50mm around +14 correction is needed to hit the 0 marker on my chart at optimal distance guided in my chart (40xFocal lenght =2meters with the 50mm). I feel like even more is needed if I back up to around 5 meters.

Tamrons 24-70mm (@70mm) got me really frustrated... At closer distance (@70mm) it's front focusing and backing further makes it focus back. Im totally lost with this one. Dunno if it's the lens or the body causing this issue. Also funny thing is that somewhere in the middle distance it's actually close to perfect.

Here are cropped pictures of the test shots I took. Shot in RAW cropped in LR and converted into jpeg.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s9faij2nnqm3rzf/AACOIYShUFdJ3QJ7n_WiJpONa?dl=0

Any advice is much appreciated!
-Dan

 

[Loswr]

AFMA is distance-dependent. If anything, it sounds like the Tamron may need service.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

The photos appear to be pretty dark.

My first thought was - How much light were you using? You need a very bright light to get consistent results, and a proper exposure helps. Do you have a calibrated monitor? You might be setting the brightness too dark in your editing.

Were you setting the lens to infinity before each of the 10 photos?

Its very difficult to set AFMA by eye, but you should be able to get into the ball park.

Its possible that the camera AF has a issue, or that the lenses have a issue. To see if AF is a issue, use live view and take 10 shots at full aperture, setting the lens to infinity before each shot. Make sure the lighting is bright. If all 10 are near perfect, then its a autofocus issue, either the lens (Likely) or the camera.

There have been people who saw improvements after returning their 7D MK II for service, a 50mm f/1.4 lens is fragile, and they are known for damage which can be part of the issue. There is little you can do about the Tamron lens, Canon cannot fix it, so you get into a issue of which has the issue, if not both.

I can't advise you, if you can borrow a Cannon "L" like the 24-70 MK II, they are pretty consistent and should give good results. The 50mm lenses are just too much of a unknown, and in low light, focus can be all over the place.

 

[Danzq]

Thanks for the replies!

It was a very bright day and I was using the sunlight that was brighting the room. Iso was set to 200 and shutter speeds were above 1/50 (1/320 wide open with the 50mm).

I was shooting in Av and did turn focus into infinity after each shot.

How is the AFMA spose to work with various distances? Some of the people Ive turned to have said that over +10 is really pushing it.

I did not adjust brightness any way when I processed em through LR. Simply cropped all of em and converted from raw to jpeg.

-Dan

 

[wyldeguy]

I had issues getting my sigma 24-70 right and my tamron took a couple goes. The third parties tend to be a little finicky. My canon 50mm 1.4 was pretty much perfect so for the 1 or 2 ticks I didn't bother. My 17-40 took a little but it was worth it for sure. If you are having problems with your 50 then it might need service but I have a feeling your camera is fine and it's the tamron that's the real problem

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thanks for the replies!

It was a very bright day and I was using the sunlight that was brighting the room. Iso was set to 200 and shutter speeds were above 1/50 (1/320 wide open with the 50mm).

I was shooting in Av and did turn focus into infinity after each shot.

How is the AFMA spose to work with various distances? Some of the people Ive turned to have said that over +10 is really pushing it.

I did not adjust brightness any way when I processed em through LR. Simply cropped all of em and converted from raw to jpeg.

-Dan

Generally, its a good idea to set the distance to subject to 50X the focal length, but try not to get closer than 25X unless its a distance you will mostly use.

The lens focus position is determined by reading resistance of a strip in the lens barrel. It is probably a more consistent reading at mid point than near the end points, which is why we see a 50X recommendation. It is also true that things are not perfectly linear, so accurate focus at 25 ft does not mean accurate at 5 ft. The lens has a table of values in the internal memory that has calibration values at different distances, but the AFMA of the camera is for just one distance. If the lens is accurate at say 25 ft, and inaccurate at 5 ft, Canon will need to calibrate it, which sets new values in the lens for different distances.

If you send camera and lens, they calibrate each separately, and then verify that they work together.

 

[Danzq]

I understand that af calibration cant be perfect at every distance. But that much off between 2meters? I'd like to think that at 5meters calibrated body+lens should give usable results at 2meters aswell.

Did some more testing today with my 350d and the 50mm 1.4.

At the optimal distance it's more in the middle in the chart (with few pics front focused). Dont think I'd touch it even if it was possible.

But... Again backing up a mere 2meters makes it front focus like hell... I mean it's pretty much off the chart. Dno if I had some luck but 3/10 hit the mid spot with the 350d and one was way back.

Dont know if I even mind worrying the Tamron anymore. It's my 2nd copy alrdy and Im so frustrated with it that I might throw it out of the window. First one was good but kept giving me err01 so I didnt really have enought time with it to properly test it. This one is so inconsistant that I dont trust it enough to even put it on...

Conclusion for me: I think the 50mm needs a trip to Canon and the Tamron needs to go. Camera might need some adjustment but for now its impossible to tell due to my lenses. I think I'll send it in with the 50mm and let Canon sort it out.

-Dan

 

[Danzq]

The photos appear to be pretty dark.

My first thought was - How much light were you using? You need a very bright light to get consistent results, and a proper exposure helps. Do you have a calibrated monitor? You might be setting the brightness too dark in your editing.

Were you setting the lens to infinity before each of the 10 photos?

Its very difficult to set AFMA by eye, but you should be able to get into the ball park.

Its possible that the camera AF has a issue, or that the lenses have a issue. To see if AF is a issue, use live view and take 10 shots at full aperture, setting the lens to infinity before each shot. Make sure the lighting is bright. If all 10 are near perfect, then its a autofocus issue, either the lens (Likely) or the camera.

There have been people who saw improvements after returning their 7D MK II for service, a 50mm f/1.4 lens is fragile, and they are known for damage which can be part of the issue. There is little you can do about the Tamron lens, Canon cannot fix it, so you get into a issue of which has the issue, if not both.

I can't advise you, if you can borrow a Cannon "L" like the 24-70 MK II, they are pretty consistent and should give good results. The 50mm lenses are just too much of a unknown, and in low light, focus can be all over the place.

Dont know how I missed your advice on testing with LiveView but I just did (with tamron @70mm which was my biggest problem) and pretty much all 20 shots were good. The ones taken at 2-3m were fine and the ones taken further away also. So now I know AF is the issue but cant tell if it's the camera or the lens?

Thank you so much again! I felt like yelling heureka when the shots came out good even though I dont know if this gets me anywhere more near the solution lol!

-Dan

 

[Danzq]

Test shots in LiveView with the 50mm were alot better too! With AFMA 0 they were usable even at the longer distance where with normal focus they were way off the chart.

-Dan

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Dan.
I am not certain on this, I've no documented evidence, not looked for any,* but I don't think AFMA would have any influence on anything other than the phase detect focusing, contrast detect uses the sensor so it would seem the camera would need to ignore any front to rear adjustment to avoid shifting the focus from correct to fuzzy.

Clear as mud.
* Evidence may come from the dot tune method?

Cheers, Graham.

Test shots in LiveView with the 50mm were alot better too! With AFMA 0 they were usable even at the longer distance where with normal focus they were way off the chart.

-Dan

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Test shots in LiveView with the 50mm were alot better too! With AFMA 0 they were usable even at the longer distance where with normal focus they were way off the chart.

-Dan

Now, you know that its a AF issue, but don't know if its a lens issue or body issue.

Call Canon and ask them about sending the camera and 50mm lens to them for adjustment. They should be happy to do it.

As noted, when using live view, AFMA has no affect. It adjusts the lens for best focus. You can do it manually too.

You still have the issue of variation in the normal phase detect AF, and that is a concern. I've seen some users who have exchanged or had their 7D MK II's repaired and the issue went away.

 

[Danzq]

Quick update:

Changed the Tamron 24-70 for Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 and Canon 85mm 1.8. My shop was very kind and offered me full return for the Tamron since it was the 2nd copy I was not happy with.

I'll have a play with these new babies and let you know if they work any better!

-Dan

 

[Yiannis A - Greece]

Quick update:

Changed the Tamron 24-70 for Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 and Canon 85mm 1.8. My shop was very kind and offered me full return for the Tamron since it was the 2nd copy I was not happy with.

I'll have a play with these new babies and let you know if they work any better!

-Dan

Dear Dan, i've had the 7D Mk2 for exactly 3 1/2 months now, i've shot about 14k images with it and i have to say that, i fully understand you when you say that you've been feeling mentally ill with it's focusing. I've been there too, with lenses equal or faster than f/2.8. In fact, i was so worried and frustrated that even left it at Canon's authorised service for a forthnight where, they were unable to do or conclude anything (they shot 1.2k (!!!) of the 14k images the camera already has). The damn thing was acting very weirdly with fast lenses and center point AF; one time it was so sharp to bring tears to your eyes, the other it was completely OOF!
I made the mistake to buy three Sigma lenses, the 18-35 f/1.8, the 24-70 f/2.8 and the 17-50 f/2.8. They were a nightmare! All of them! They didn't even work on my sharper-than-hell, focusing bingo 600D (the sharpest autofocusing camera i've ever seen or used in my life and trust me, i've seen and used hundreds of, from film to medium format to 1Dx, D4s' etc)! I'm 100% sure that, Sigmas will have an opportunity to work only after a firmware update of 7D Mk2 or, only after God decides to make a miracle!
I was pretty sure that my 7D Mk2 was one of them with the problematic center point AF untill i put the first "Lord of The L Rings" on it! 24-70 f/4L IS USM. Man, i was blinded. The camera was sharper than the sharpest razor! It blew both my super-sharp 5D Mk3 and my almost-non-existing sharp 600D not out of the water but, out of the planet! Then came the 70-200 f/2.8 ii and then...the non-L 85 f/1.8. At f/1.8, i can tell even the faintest hair on the ear of my cat at any logical distance for an f/1.8 portrait image!
The camera also works incredibly well and gives very sharp images and videos with...18-135 IS STM, 55-250 IS STM and 10-18 IS STM!
So, i'm quite sure that, in order to work well, the 7D Mk2 needs good Canon glass or at least Canon glass. I'm obsessed with sharpness and maybe i ask for too much but, i've yet to find a third party lens (apart from Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC, i forgot to mention) to behave well enough (at least), when used on the 7D Mk2. Whatever Sigma i tried was a disaster.
Until a major FW update, i'd suggest you to stick with Canon lenses.

Always be lucky, be strong, enjoy life surrounded by those you love.

Best wishes
Yiannis

P.S: I'm sure you'll be blown away with the 85 f/1.8. I had to AFMA mine to +1 to "bring tears to my eyes"

 

[Danzq]

Quick update:

Changed the Tamron 24-70 for Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 and Canon 85mm 1.8. My shop was very kind and offered me full return for the Tamron since it was the 2nd copy I was not happy with.

I'll have a play with these new babies and let you know if they work any better!

-Dan

Dear Dan, i've had the 7D Mk2 for exactly 3 1/2 months now, i've shot about 14k images with it and i have to say that, i fully understand you when you say that you've been feeling mentally ill with it's focusing. I've been there too, with lenses equal or faster than f/2.8. In fact, i was so worried and frustrated that even left it at Canon's authorised service for a forthnight where, they were unable to do or conclude anything (they shot 1.2k (!!!) of the 14k images the camera already has). The damn thing was acting very weirdly with fast lenses and center point AF; one time it was so sharp to bring tears to your eyes, the other it was completely OOF!
I made the mistake to buy three Sigma lenses, the 18-35 f/1.8, the 24-70 f/2.8 and the 17-50 f/2.8. They were a nightmare! All of them! They didn't even work on my sharper-than-hell, focusing bingo 600D (the sharpest autofocusing camera i've ever seen or used in my life and trust me, i've seen and used hundreds of, from film to medium format to 1Dx, D4s' etc)! I'm 100% sure that, Sigmas will have an opportunity to work only after a firmware update of 7D Mk2 or, only after God decides to make a miracle!
I was pretty sure that my 7D Mk2 was one of them with the problematic center point AF untill i put the first "Lord of The L Rings" on it! 24-70 f/4L IS USM. Man, i was blinded. The camera was sharper than the sharpest razor! It blew both my super-sharp 5D Mk3 and my almost-non-existing sharp 600D not out of the water but, out of the planet! Then came the 70-200 f/2.8 ii and then...the non-L 85 f/1.8. At f/1.8, i can tell even the faintest hair on the ear of my cat at any logical distance for an f/1.8 portrait image!
The camera also works incredibly well and gives very sharp images and videos with...18-135 IS STM, 55-250 IS STM and 10-18 IS STM!
So, i'm quite sure that, in order to work well, the 7D Mk2 needs good Canon glass or at least Canon glass. I'm obsessed with sharpness and maybe i ask for too much but, i've yet to find a third party lens (apart from Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC, i forgot to mention) to behave well enough (at least), when used on the 7D Mk2. Whatever Sigma i tried was a disaster.
Until a major FW update, i'd suggest you to stick with Canon lenses.

Always be lucky, be strong, enjoy life surrounded by those you love.

Best wishes
Yiannis

P.S: I'm sure you'll be blown away with the 85 f/1.8. I had to AFMA mine to +1 to "bring tears to my eyes"

Thanks for the encouraging words friend!

I always thought that my biggest head ache was the Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC. I mean with the 2 copies I owned maybe 10% was sharp and rest were unusable. Good thing about the 7d2 is that you can take alot of shots in a short period of time

Im hoping my Sigma 18-35 will deliver. First impressions so far are okay. I know my body has some front focusing issues but I hope Canon will take care of it and calibrate it correctly. I'll get my hands on the 85mm 1.8 today and will do some proper field testing with both new lenses on the weekend.

-Dan

 

[East Wind Photography]

Most of the newer canon lenses have AF position sensors now so the camera now has feedback on the position of the USM ring. Not so sure of the less expensive 3rd party lenses. The smaller sensor also magnifies every error or defect and with fast lenses where the AF precision is not really good, the image will often look out of focus at 1:1 viewing and occasional nail it mostly by luck.

That being said, I had an issue with mine and canon replaced the mirror box and AF sensor and now most of the AF issues are gone and I'm getting good AF performance on par with the 5D3. There are still some issues which are likely firmware fixable but none are show stoppers.

I stopped using 3rd party lenses a few years ago as I was not happy with any of them. I fell in love with L quality and I just could never go back. Once you are smitten your wallet just suffers forever after...but the images are nice.

 

[ksgal]

I was trying to mfa my 50 1.4 to my 7DII -

1. The correct distance to mfa (different for each lens - something like 3 times the focal length
2. What light you are doing this in makes a HUGE difference (white florescent is NOT good)
3. Dot tune does much better than charts - there is a youtube video on that.
4. older design lenses/third party are not able to focus as well as newly designed lenses with focus assist sensors built into them.

bottom line.. I pulled all the mfa I had dialed in and got much better results. I'll dot tune when I get better weather and can be outside in good light. Right now the 24-105L is as sharp as I'd like, and the 70-200 is good enough as well. I wouldn't base focus issues with a 7DII unless you have tested it with a newer designed lens - JMHO

 

[Danzq]

I've sent mine in and it took Canon 2 weeks to even try to fix it. They had to order 7d2 specific calibration tools 'cause they had not delt with one before.

Got a call today (2 and a half weeks from sending it) that there's something really wrong with my camera and after 4 hours of calibration they just couldnt make any sense of it. AF was all over the place and all the parts seemed fine. They ordered some parts (new mirror box and main sensor) and have a go at it again next week.

Im just happy they see the problem I had and are determined to fix it.

-Dan

 

[derrald]

I'm posting my (verbose) experience with the hope this helps others!



When I first received my 7D Mark II and mounted my all Canon lenses I was equally impressed and dismayed. I always do some AFMA by photographing a sheet of text from a fixed distance. It's fairly crude, but I've found it works well as long as everything is on the right plane. With one shot AF with non-moving subjects, the AF was spot on. When I took it out I found the AI Servo with moving subjects was never in focus. In fact, when photographing stationary subjects with AI Servo the focus seemed off. I tried mainly micro point, single point, and single point with assist points. My subjects appeared to be mostly in focus, but not the sharp focus I was coming to expect from my lenses, especially the Canon 300 f4/l IS and 500 f/4l II IS.

This was especially vexing for me as I also have the 70D which has produced outstanding photographs, especially wildlife. Most are aware that the 7D Mark II and 70D sensors are similar. The autofocus with the 70D was perfect for me, so much so that I almost didn't purchase the 7D Mark II. I decided to go ahead after reviewing the AF options and the faster FPS. After experiencing the issues I had with focus I almost severely regretted the purchase.

In cases when things don't work like I expect I have found that I need to sometimes reset my expectations and understandings. I thought I should do quite a bit of testing with the 7D Mark II before throwing up my hands and sending it back.

I decided to take a risk and do some real field testing. Every year I head out to central Nebraska for the Sandhill Crane migration. I also took my 5d Mark II and 70D as backups. I always plan two days. If the 7D II didn't perform as I expect on the first day I would switch to the 70D on the second day.

Here's my report.

Initial Shooting settings:

For the cranes I almost exclusively shoot with my 500 with and without a 1.4x III canon teleconverter. I set my Auto ISO for shutter speeds faster than 1/1000 (only on the 7D Mark II). Generally, that is enough to stop the action. I use a tripod and a remote release and use back button focusing.

I used a modified version of Case 4 for AF. I increased tracking sensitivity and increased acceleration deceleration tracking.

I used information from this link to help make decisions: https://photographylife.com/recommended-canon-7d-mark-ii-settings

I used single point AF with assist points.

Day 1 results:

Horrible. My old 50D did a better job at focusing than the 7D Mark II. Heck, my really old 20D would have probably done a better job at focusing. Nothing seemed in focus, it almost looked as there was a fuzzy halo around my subjects, even the cranes that were fairly stationary in the water.

At first I thought it might have been heat rising from the ground causing the fuzziness, but I was on a river and it was fairly chilly (40 degrees or so).

My shots from Day 1 are pretty unusable.

Determined to find the cause, I took some time to do some testing. As I had rented a blind and they make you go into that blind 3 hours before the birds come in I had plenty of time to do some testing.

I started to do some testing with some plants and logs on the river. Here were my tests (using a 500 f/4l ii + 1.4 tc iii):

Things I never changed: Back button focusing, Remote trigger.


1. Manual focus.

Initial Results: Horrible. What? Why? It looks in focus in the viewfinder.

I put my 70D on and manually focused. Results? Perfect. Looks awesome! Not a lens problem, at least not a lens mounted to a 70D problem.

2. One Shot AF.

Initial Results: Meh, Better, but still Meh

70D in One Shot. Perfect.

3. Different AF Points, Zone AF.

Initial Results: Horrible, See Manual Focus above

4. Different Lenses.

300 f/4l II - Meh

16-35 f/4l - Awesome

With that result, I was becoming convinced it was a Canon 500 f/4l + 7D Mark II problem, but the 300 wasn't quite there either.

5. Shooting in JPEG with added sharpening.

What? Why would shoot in JPEG? That's just crazy talk. Guess what? It worked, I had much better results. Did I just need to super sharpen everything in post? I didn't think so.

6. Changed my Case 4 AF settings back to default.

Better!

7. Changed my Auto ISO to 1/2000 sec.

Success!


All of a sudden my in focus rate skyrocketed (even in RAW). Was 1/1000 just too slow even for fairly stationary subjects? On my 70D it wasn't. Why would the 7D Mark II matter? My JPEG sharpening was still set and in Canons utilities I see them sharpened. Of course when I bring the RAWS into Photoshop they are not sharpened.

I genuinely think that I had a problem with the modified Case 4. I think the 1/2000 shutter helps. Perhaps the slap of the shutter is higher on the 7D Mark II. It is supposed to be dampened, but I'm not sure it is enough. I need to do more testing with the silent shutter, but I haven't had time.

I went on to use Zone AF (small) and loved it! Before I couldn't even think about Zone, but now I have a new favorite AF setting. I wish my 70D had two things: Zone AF (small) and Auto ISO with shutter settings above 1/250.

I hope this helps others. I've posted before and after photos (100%) crop of my results and a web sized version of a final image.

 

[East Wind Photography]

There is also a factor that the shutter and mirror slap causes some camera movement. This may not be apparent in the 70d due to shutter design.

Just as you noticed one shot seemed to work fine out of the box but servo was not working. Canon replaced the mirror box and AF sensor on my 7d2 and the results now are just a good as with my 5d3.

I can shoot at lower shutter speeds in drive mode but I find I have to keep IS enabled in any mode in order to reduce the effects of shutter and mirror slap. Quiet mode helps in this regard where you don't need 10fps.