7D mark II still focus issues?

[Otus]

Hi,

i am planing to buy a 7D mark II. But during my research about experiences from other users i found some people complaining about a bad hit rat with their 7D II cameras. was this an issue from the first produced cameras or are there any users who bought a 7D II recently and got the same problems with soft focus?

 

[Mikehit]

I have a 7D2 and am very happy with it.
The problem with the internet is that (a) you hear about far more people with problems than people who are happy and (b) in most technological issues the problem is user error than equipment error and (c) people not understanding the limitations (related to point b)

Most of the issues with focussing are related to the fact that the focal area is larger than the little square you see in the viewfinder and the fact there are so many more pixels in the focal area it is more likely than a FF camera to focus on what you don't want. Once you understand this it becomes much easier.

One thing I am mindful of is people saying that the focus using the 5D III or 1Dx bodies is the focus is far more assured and snappy. But what do you expect when those bodies are 3-5 times the price?

My 7D2 has produced great images with any lenses with no microfocus adjust but maybe you need to do this. This article may be of interest:
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths/

Buy it when you have a free weekend, put it though its paces and return it if you don't like it. I would say buy it with confidence.

 

[Otus]

Thank you for your answer, i will give it a try.

From what i had read, it was/is not an issues that could be solved by microadjust. Peolple complained about a general softness in the whole image and inconsisten hit rate. Sometimes images are perfect sharp and sometimes the camera takes the picture while nothing is in focus.

Jared Polin is pointing that out in his review of the 7d II - just one example.

 

[IglooEater]

In business, we call this the 20:1 ratio. It takes one unhappy customer to share his bad experience with 20 people, and 20 satisfied customers to share their positive experience with 1 person. I'd not hesitate a moment to buy a 7D II, especially new. Perhaps used I'd look into the serial number to not get one of the first few, but that would be more for peace of mind than for the actual likelihood of getting a problematic copy.

 

[Mikehit]

It is impossible to know the issue when reviews (and people quoting the reviews) simply say 'it is soft'. What are the circumstances and the subject? You also need to bear in mind people have different tolerances - softness compared to what? (equipment as well as their expectations).

One often-quote issue with the original 7D was when tracking birds in flight it would hold focus but every third shot or so would be out of focus and this probably a limitation of the processing power. Then again, this is why the 1Dx2 has a processor assigned specifically to AF. Apparently this is much improved in the 7D2 but still happens occasionally.
It also depends a lot on the lens used.

The best way to check AF is to use spot AF on increasingly complex subjects and see where in your opinion it starts to become a problem for you.
If you aren't gong to buy the 7D2 the question is what are the alternatives (the 80D is a very good option) but you can't expect AF the level of the 1Dx2.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Thank you for your answer, i will give it a try.

From what i had read, it was/is not an issues that could be solved by microadjust. Peolple complained about a general softness in the whole image and inconsisten hit rate. Sometimes images are perfect sharp and sometimes the camera takes the picture while nothing is in focus.

Jared Polin is pointing that out in his review of the 7d II - just one example.

There are a couple of things to note in all of these complaints.

1) there was an early issue with AF sensors that were improperly mounted. Caused all kinds of AF problems. Required a mirror box replacement and factory recalibration. (Mine fell into this category). Mine now works almost as good as my 1dxii.

2) the higher resolution sensor tends to look soft but it does record more detail. You can sharpen it in camera or in post and it looks fine. The issue has to do with how lower res sensors record edge detail.

3) the 7dii AF system is much advanced over standard 9 point AF and requires a bit of tweaking to work best for your subject material. I use different af settings for shooting soccer than shooting birds in flight.

Dont let all of the early problems affect your decision to buy one. Buy from a reputable dealer with a good return policy and make sure you dont test over their shot count limit. After a certain point most wont take them back as new.

Once you start using it you will be happy with it.

 

[Don Haines]

Thank you for your answer, i will give it a try.

From what i had read, it was/is not an issues that could be solved by microadjust. Peolple complained about a general softness in the whole image and inconsisten hit rate. Sometimes images are perfect sharp and sometimes the camera takes the picture while nothing is in focus.

Jared Polin is pointing that out in his review of the 7d II - just one example.

There are a couple of things to note in all of these complaints.

1) there was an early issue with AF sensors that were improperly mounted. Caused all kinds of AF problems. Required a mirror box replacement and factory recalibration. (Mine fell into this category). Mine now works almost as good as my 1dxii.

2) the higher resolution sensor tends to look soft but it does record more detail. You can sharpen it in camera or in post and it looks fine. The issue has to do with how lower res sensors record edge detail.

3) the 7dii AF system is much advanced over standard 9 point AF and requires a bit of tweaking to work best for your subject material. I use different af settings for shooting soccer than shooting birds in flight.

Dont let all of the early problems affect your decision to buy one. Buy from a reputable dealer with a good return policy and make sure you dont test over their shot count limit. After a certain point most wont take them back as new.

Once you start using it you will be happy with it.

I would like to add that the smaller the pixel pitch, the more accurate the AF system needs to be, plus the faster the shot speed needs to be to avoid subject blur..... If you needed 1/600 second on A 20MP FF camera, then you need 1/1000 on a 20MP crop camera to get the same relative motion blur on a per pixel basis.... A proper AFMA of your lenses becomes even more critical on a crop camera.....

You have to calibrate the system for peak performance and adjust your shooting style accordingly......

 

[hbr]

I purchased one when they first came out. No focus problems with any of my lenses. It was stolen so I got a second one as a replacement for the first one. Again I had no focusing issues with it either. I purchased it for photos of birds in flight. To get clear photos every time I did have to increase the shutter speed. I bumped it up to 1/2500 / sec and I seldom got a blurry or out of focus photo,

 

[CanoKnight]

Here's what I have learned from shooting action with the 7d2:

1. I had assumed every frame was always going was going to be sharp but that's not the case. It applies to any camera in servo mode. Only a fraction from a sequence will, and you select your keepers from that.

2. Avoid using automatic focus point selection. The larger the set of points from which the camera has to select a focus point, especially with fast moving objects, the worse the focus performance will be. For example if you want to shoot a dog running, you will get the best results from preselecting a focus point and placing it on or near an eye and panning the camera while keeping the focus point on the eye. Not only will this make sure it's the eye in focus as opposed to something else, you will also get better focus accuracy as the processor is freed up from doing the work of focus point selection and "focusing" only on focusing. Until I realized that I was getting a lot of bad shots but afterwards I have been very happy with the 7D2. It's a great action cam.

 

[bluenoser1993]

Like others have said, set the shutter speed faster than you think you need. I could easily have been one of the ones complaining about poor focus, but recognized it was user error that wasn't exaggerated with lower resolution cameras in the past. My hands are particularly unsteady, always have been, so I always go with faster shutter. For a three day event last summer I was using 100-400II and 1.4x and was quite disappointed after day one and was looking at pictures on the computer. Even with 4x IS, 1/600 is just not enough for 560mm plus crop factor in my shaky hands. The next day I didn't go below 1/1250 and tried for 1/2000 or better and most shots were very sharp.

 

[langdonb]

Thank you for your answer, i will give it a try.

From what i had read, it was/is not an issues that could be solved by microadjust. Peolple complained about a general softness in the whole image and inconsisten hit rate. Sometimes images are perfect sharp and sometimes the camera takes the picture while nothing is in focus.

Jared Polin is pointing that out in his review of the 7d II - just one example.

I purchased a new 7DII six months ago along with a 100-400 mark II lens. After two months of African safari in May and June, I found all of the problems that many (relative of course) have complained about. I sent the body back for warranty repair and it came back with a comment that they found issues and adjusted it "electronically" and said if problems continue to return it with the lens.

Now, just back for another two month trip, I find the same issues. As a test while on the trip, I put the 100-400 with 1.4 TC III on my 5D3 and had very good hit rates, way, way better than with 7DII. So I will now send it back again, with the lens to see it they can fix it. If it returns with the same issues in local testing, I will sell it. I am not going back to Africa till March but for sure will not take that body with me!

BTW, I checked all soft images with FocusPoints LR plugin and the focus was on the subject, focus captured and all were high shutter speeds, 1/1500 to 1/3000th a second.

 

[AlanF]

One often-quote issue with the original 7D was when tracking birds in flight it would hold focus but every third shot or so would be out of focus and this probably a limitation of the processing power. Then again, this is why the 1Dx2 has a processor assigned specifically to AF. Apparently this is much improved in the 7D2 but still happens occasionally.

The 7D II (twin Digic 6 processors) and 7D (twin Digic 4 processors) have the second processor dedicated to AF. The 5DIII has a single 5+ whereas the the 5DS R and 5DS have dual Digic 6 processors and the 5DIV has 6+ plus a 6 dedicated for AF.

I have never had any AF problems with my 7DII, which was purchased as soon as it was released. Like others, though, not all shots in a sequence in servo mode are equally sharp. The 5DIV is the bes t of mine so far.

 

[AdamBotond]

When I was considering buying a 7D II, I rented one from a local Canon retailer for a tryout. It was far less reliable than my 6D in identical scenarios and I ended up with lot of OOF, soft images. It became clear quickly: the AF system behaved upredictable. Sometimes it hit the target perfectly, sometimes it missed even the easiest one badly.
Later, I decided to go with a used 1D IV instead, which I did not regret. Certainly, I don't think it is a general problem as it has been and still is a very popular camera. The copy I rented just didn't convince me.

 

[Mikehit]

One often-quote issue with the original 7D was when tracking birds in flight it would hold focus but every third shot or so would be out of focus and this probably a limitation of the processing power. Then again, this is why the 1Dx2 has a processor assigned specifically to AF. Apparently this is much improved in the 7D2 but still happens occasionally.

The 7D II (twin Digic 6 processors) and 7D (twin Digic 4 processors) have the second processor dedicated to AF. The 5DIII has a single 5+ whereas the the 5DS R and 5DS have dual Digic 6 processors and the 5DIV has 6+ plus a 6 dedicated for AF.

I have never had any AF problems with my 7DII, which was purchased as soon as it was released. Like others, though, not all shots in a sequence in servo mode are equally sharp. The 5DIV is the bes t of mine so far.

According to the BHP cideo the second processor of the 5D4 is dedicated to image processing, not AF.
I understand the second processor on the 7D is not handling only AF while on the 1Dx2 it is.

 

[yungfat]

Thank you for your answer, i will give it a try.

From what i had read, it was/is not an issues that could be solved by microadjust. Peolple complained about a general softness in the whole image and inconsisten hit rate. Sometimes images are perfect sharp and sometimes the camera takes the picture while nothing is in focus.

Jared Polin is pointing that out in his review of the 7d II - just one example.

Hi, Otus!
I unintentionally opened the photo take 3 years ago using my Nikon D7000 which I purchased 5-6 years ago, most of the portrait shoot are not sharp and out of focus compared to the photo taken by my current camera 6D.
Is it the camera AF problem? Nikon got a high praised on AF System, and don't forget the 6D isn't the best AF in Canon DSLR line up.
In others word, you can use and 1DX II to create less sharp and out of focus photo, but that's nothing to do with the camera.

 

[Otus]

Hi, Otus!
I unintentionally opened the photo take 3 years ago using my Nikon D7000 which I purchased 5-6 years ago, most of the portrait shoot are not sharp and out of focus compared to the photo taken by my current camera 6D.
Is it the camera AF problem? Nikon got a high praised on AF System, and don't forget the 6D isn't the best AF in Canon DSLR line up.
In others word, you can use and 1DX II to create less sharp and out of focus photo, but that's nothing to do with the camera.

Hi yungfat,

i guess i know what you are trying to say. And as i searched through all the topics about focus issues i found that there are severeal cameras during the last years and brands that suffered the same problems. It seems that even the 1D hat some focus issues in their early days.

Nevermind, i could not resist and bought a 7D mkII yet
Unfortunally the weather is just dark, rainy and grey. Hopefully it will change in the next days so that i can make some pictures. I will see how it will work then. At least its very new camera, produced in june 2016 and had 0 shots on the counter. So its not a faulty one that several people sent back. Maybe thats a good sign.

 

[Mick]

Hi all, just my observations. I own a 1DX and 7D2. I love the 7D when I really need reach but it does have one big problem and its an odd autofocus issue. Taking shots of motorcycle racing and it nailed them all, tack sharp, excellent images. But....I then go off two years running lay on the beach doing grey seal shots. Its awfull, virtually all mis focused. I had tried microadjustment which didn't cure anything. Took it again the next year and again the same problem. Then the light changes, the seals get darker and it worked. Small waders pass by and it nailed them. Hmmm I thought. High contrast bikes fine, birds fine, seals in poor light fine but seals in decent weather poor. Except the seals when I look at the pics that misfocused had poor contrast, all the others have lots, birds bikes etc. The 1DX nailed every shot but then again its 3 times the cost. Very weird!Still an excellent camera but mine just seems to like contrast. Very odd.

 

[Otus]

Well, thats exactly the same issue some people talking about in a german canon forum. The topic says (my rough translation) "7D II AF at too much light unuseable (for me)". So far there is no solution. Some experienced the same issues while it works well for others.

On the other hand, in the Jared Polin Review is certainly not to much light. And i have looked at many example images from the 7D II during the last days where images where perfectly sharp - even in bright sunlight. But as said above, we are far away from good lighting conditions here at the moment. I will check it as soon as possible.

I am very curious if it is a user problem or if there are some cameras with a technical problem. Some users said that canon changed the whole AF system in their cameras and after that it worked as expected.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Some lenses have less contrast for one reason or another. Most canon L lenses are fine. However the original 100-400 had some coma issues wide open and would cause some hunting.

Other issues that plague 3rd party lenses are coma, poor coatings, internal reflections, bad af motors.

If you have reflection problems, bright light can make it worse. All cameras like good contrast. That's how phase detect works most efficiently.

I've used my 7d2 with a number of Canon L lenses and it locks just fine for both moving and stationary subjects. In fact I just leave it in ai servo unless I need to shoot in almost total darkness.

 

[Ray-uk]

Some lenses have less contrast for one reason or another. Most canon L lenses are fine. However the original 100-400 had some coma issues wide open and would cause some hunting.

Other issues that plague 3rd party lenses are coma, poor coatings, internal reflections, bad af motors.

If you have reflection problems, bright light can make it worse. All cameras like good contrast. That's how phase detect works most efficiently.

This is the most sensible response to this problem that I have read so far.

Anyone who has tried to focus manually with a plain focus screen and an under performing lens will know how difficult it can be, this happens often even with good quality wide aperture lenses that are slightly soft or flare when wide open.

Personally I have never experienced focus problems with my 7D2 and whilst I agree there must be some cameras out there that are below spec and show a definite fault the vast majority of reports are from people who are either overwhelmed by the 7D2's AF setup options or have unrealistic expectations.