80D noise performance posted on DPR

[ahsanford]

DPR tackles the age old question of how many stops you can push your shadows:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/7168986570/canon-shows-dynamism-eos-80d-breaks-new-ground-for-canon-low-iso-dr

Rejoice. Don't even take the lens cap off anymore. Metering schmetering. Capture all black frames and see what 'develops' in post.

- A

 

[Refurb7]

As always they are obsessed with this one thing. Oh look, Canon is catching up on the 6-stop shadow boost. Hooray!?

When will Sony catch up on ergonomics, color, lens selection, quality control, flash system, repair service, battery life, etc.? There's a guy on another forum (FM) who went through 4 copies of the Zony FE 35/1.4 and says he doesn't have the guts to try for a 5th.

 

[Orangutan]

Any improvements are welcome. I've been enjoying the refurb 70D I bought on steep discount, but if the 7D3 is an evolved version of this, Canon might sell me one.

 

[ritholtz]

As always they are obsessed with this one thing. Oh look, Canon is catching up on the 6-stop shadow boost. Hooray!?

When will Sony catch up on ergonomics, color, lens selection, quality control, flash system, repair service, battery life, etc.? There's a guy on another forum (FM) who went through 4 copies of the Zony FE 35/1.4 and says he doesn't have the guts to try for a 5th.

And they don't even bother about checking colors from their own setup. One they compared with d7200, turns huge gray patch into pink/brownish by +4EV push. Not sure what happens by +4EV push. It is very good until +3EV. Even those darker areas around bottles and bottles itself are changed to brownish. May be they need some WB or color adjustment. Not sure why they don't talk about color rendering during pushes through.

 

[[email protected]]

By my lights, it appears to provide a 2 stop improvement in noise at low ISO versus the previous sensor in the 70D. That's a pretty hefty one-time improvement.

More practically, looking at the invariance testing, it appears to give a 2/3rd stop improvement over the 7D2 (best Canon crop sensor prior to this) at 100 ISO, but the 7D2 sensor is still better by at least a stop at the higher ISO range.

 

[Refurb7]

Any improvements are welcome. I've been enjoying the refurb 70D I bought on steep discount, but if the 7D3 is an evolved version of this, Canon might sell me one.

Same here. I got a 70D at a steep discount and it's a fantastic camera! Very enjoyable to use, and really good image quality despite its "old" sensor.

 

[Woody]

As always they are obsessed with this one thing.

Nah, it's not the only thing. They are also obsessed with face/eye tracking, either through OVF, back LCD or EVF. ;D

 

[xps]

The image quality seems to be visibly better than that of the 7DII. A leading salesman of one of the biggest German photographic shops advertised some discounted products and acessories yesterday. He answered some questions we had, where he told us, that in his company they are asking themself what to do with the 7DII. He mentioned, the 80D will be the "better 7DII" for the normal enthusiastic photographer, than the 7DII is. Better image quality, AF at F8 on many AF-points (makes you capable to use the 100-400II with an 1.4 III extender - as an actual answer to the 600mm third party lenses). FPS are not much lesser than on the 7DII. AF system is very fast (he told same performance like 7DI - in good light above the AF of the 7DI). And the AF capability to follow moving subjects is improved. Accuracy of the AF is much better, better than the 7DII´s. Wireless connections are a plus too....
So, in their shops they are working on an strategy, how to sell still some 7DII.
They asked Canon sales departement, about coming products. No clear answer. He heared rumors about an 7DII upgrade (maybe firmware for AF), but nothing definitive. But Canon knows about the little difference in between this two products.

 

[Chaitanya]

So far I am happy with 70D, if Canon brings similar improvements to 5D upgrade along with 4K. Then I might end up getting FF camera. Also lets wait for the new Tony Northrup the Ken Rockwell of youtube to screw up soon.

 

[Chaitanya]

So far I am happy with 70D, if Canon brings similar improvements to 5D upgrade along with 4K. Then I might end up getting FF camera. Also lets wait for the new Tony Northrup the Ken Rockwell of youtube to screw up soon.

 

[ritholtz]

As always they are obsessed with this one thing.

Nah, it's not the only thing. They are also obsessed with face/eye tracking, either through OVF, back LCD or EVF. ;D

Let me summarise: they're obsessed with whatever features Canon doesn't have.

Before d7200, they used to rave about d7100. When I compared 80d, 70d, d7200 and d7100. By +4ev push, d7100 shows atrocious banding. ;D ;D Even with 7d2 release, they kept on banging about great d7100 and ignored actual user group needs.

 

[JohanCruyff]

1) Now Canon (80D) uses the same on-sensor ADC technology as Sony
2) It seems that in the (extremely useful) exercise of pushing 6 Stops, Sony's sensors (D7200) are still better than Canon's ones.

One question to the experts: do you think that is it possible that this (reduced but persisting) difference is due to:
a) the presence of the DPAF technology in Canon's sensor, or to
b) the slightly different crop factor, or to
c) a not-fully-ripe adoption of the ADC, or to
d) other factors?

Thanks in advance.

 

[tron]

Regarding the focal length limited cases: For 95% of shots (birds, etc) I am mostly interested in 7D2's high ISO performance so I'll have to wait for 7D3 I guess. However, Low IS DR improvement would be very important for the other 5%.... I guess 5D3 with ML will have to do...

 

[ahsanford]

Regarding the focal length limited cases: For 95% of shots (birds, etc) I am mostly interested in 7D2's high ISO performance so I'll have to wait for 7D3 I guess. However, Low IS DR improvement would be very important for the other 5%.... I guess 5D3 with ML will have to do...

The screaming-for-more low ISO DR crowd are typically FF landscapers, right? Perhaps some studio product photographers, perhaps?

How many crop landscapers are out there? I recognize wilderness/backpacking folks strongly prefer crop for size and weight, but that's a fairly niche group of shooters, I would think. Aren't most enthusiast/pro landscapers (always tripod, 4x4, 4x6, etc.) shooting on FF rigs these days?

Or there other photographic arenas that need more low ISO DR?

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have though the higher-end crop crowd would be more concerned about ISO 3200-6400 BiF performance than low ISO DR. Please enlighten me, I fear I may be missing something.

- A

 

[tron]

Regarding the focal length limited cases: For 95% of shots (birds, etc) I am mostly interested in 7D2's high ISO performance so I'll have to wait for 7D3 I guess. However, Low IS DR improvement would be very important for the other 5%.... I guess 5D3 with ML will have to do...

The screaming-for-more low ISO DR crowd are typically FF landscapers, right? Perhaps some studio product photographers, perhaps?

How many crop landscapers are out there? I recognize wilderness/backpacking folks strongly prefer crop for size and weight, but that's a fairly niche group of shooters, I would think. Aren't most enthusiast/pro landscapers (always tripod, 4x4, 4x6, etc.) shooting on FF rigs these days?

Or there other photographic arenas that need more low ISO DR?

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have though the higher-end crop crowd would be more concerned about ISO 3200-6400 BiF performance than low ISO DR. Please enlighten me, I fear I may be missing something.

- A

This is what I said: 95% (birds, etc) Allow me to have a special focal length limited photo shoot need too (for the other 5%)....

Also by saying I'll have to wait for 7D3 I meant that I'll stick to my 7D2 until 7D3 is out and I will not replace it with 80D...

 

[IglooEater]

Regarding the focal length limited cases: For 95% of shots (birds, etc) I am mostly interested in 7D2's high ISO performance so I'll have to wait for 7D3 I guess. However, Low IS DR improvement would be very important for the other 5%.... I guess 5D3 with ML will have to do...

The screaming-for-more low ISO DR crowd are typically FF landscapers, right? Perhaps some studio product photographers, perhaps?

How many crop landscapers are out there? I recognize wilderness/backpacking folks strongly prefer crop for size and weight, but that's a fairly niche group of shooters, I would think. Aren't most enthusiast/pro landscapers (always tripod, 4x4, 4x6, etc.) shooting on FF rigs these days?

Or there other photographic arenas that need more low ISO DR?

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have though the higher-end crop crowd would be more concerned about ISO 3200-6400 BiF performance than low ISO DR. Please enlighten me, I fear I may be missing something.

- A

Just my 2c: I know maybe a dozen or more enthusiast/advanced amateurs who do landscape and all but one use crop.

 

[tron]

Regarding the focal length limited cases: For 95% of shots (birds, etc) I am mostly interested in 7D2's high ISO performance so I'll have to wait for 7D3 I guess. However, Low IS DR improvement would be very important for the other 5%.... I guess 5D3 with ML will have to do...

The screaming-for-more low ISO DR crowd are typically FF landscapers, right? Perhaps some studio product photographers, perhaps?

How many crop landscapers are out there? I recognize wilderness/backpacking folks strongly prefer crop for size and weight, but that's a fairly niche group of shooters, I would think. Aren't most enthusiast/pro landscapers (always tripod, 4x4, 4x6, etc.) shooting on FF rigs these days?

Or there other photographic arenas that need more low ISO DR?

Forgive my ignorance, but I would have though the higher-end crop crowd would be more concerned about ISO 3200-6400 BiF performance than low ISO DR. Please enlighten me, I fear I may be missing something.

- A

Just my 2c: I know maybe a dozen or more enthusiast/advanced amateurs who do landscape and all but one use crop.

I do use FF for landscape. As I said in my previous post I was talking about a few focal length limited cases (where my 500mm is not enough and I would like to avoid teleconverters... also just for these cases...)

 

[scottkinfw]

So far I am happy with 70D, if Canon brings similar improvements to 5D upgrade along with 4K. Then I might end up getting FF camera. Also lets wait for the new Tony Northrup the Ken Rockwell of youtube to screw up soon.

We should just ask Tony to give us a review and tell us that Canon sucks, buy a Nikon, and by the way, go to his web site and purchase his stuff so he can get rich.

Just saying.
Sek

 

[ahsanford]

Just my 2c: I know maybe a dozen or more enthusiast/advanced amateurs who do landscape and all but one use crop.

Entirely fair. Especially if long hikes are involved, I'd be doing the same.

I made the plunge to FF in 2012 and did not regret it. I made the move for a boatload of reasons, but in the landscaping front, I felt the FF UWA lenses were simply higher class than the crop ones. (As much as there are sharp UWA lenses for crop out there aplenty, not all of them are particularly well built and only a few are sealed).

But everyone invests their photography dollars differently. Some landscapers might value amassing a wide portfolio of glass, timelapse hardware, filtering options, etc. than pony up for a FF rig.

- A

 

[x-vision]

1) Now Canon (80D) uses the same on-sensor ADC technology as Sony
2) It seems that in the (extremely useful) exercise of pushing 6 Stops, Sony's sensors (D7200) are still better than Canon's ones.

One question to the experts: do you think that is it possible that this (reduced but persisting) difference is due to:
a) the presence of the DPAF technology in Canon's sensor, or to
b) the slightly different crop factor, or to
c) a not-fully-ripe adoption of the ADC, or to
d) other factors?

Thanks in advance.

We can only speculate.

I downloaded the RAWs for the 80D and A6300 from the Imaging Resource (they just posted the A6300 images).

In Lightroom, there is a slider for pushing the shadows from 0-100%.
Don't know how many DR stops that is but when pushed to 100%, shadow noise from both the 80D and the A6300 is very similar.
The A6300 seems to be a hair cleaner - but still in the same ballpark as the 80D.
I'm also seeing similar noise levels at higher ISOs (e.g. ISO 1600).

So, overall, I don's see all that much difference between the latest sensors from Sony and Canon.

The D7200 somehow has cleaner shadows even though it has an older Sony sensor vs the A6300.
No idea how Nikon is achieving this.