A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]

[MartinvH]

The purpose of the 5D Mrk III is not:
- to be a great professional landscape camera
Landscaper Shooters who keep saying this is so popular.. please be realistic.

A real “pro” landscape photographer would be using medium or large format:
either 4” x 5” or 8” x 10” film (which is very affordable compared to digital a system),
or
a $12k+ Hasselblad cam system or $9,995 penta 645D. Im sure pentax and hasslblad arehaving a hard to meeting the demand for these cameras!

You could not be more wrong !

Some of the best landscape photograpers here in the Netherlands use the Canon 5D Mark 2 and these people do shoots all over the world all year long at the most beautifull and sometimes difficult to reach places as I learned in a seminar of one of them.

Being there at JUST the right time , catching the moment with magical light , the right season etc etc thats what counts in getting greater pictures in landscape.
They use big Gitzo tripods and Lee ND filters but seem to be very satisfied with 'just' a Canon camera.

 

[neogomo]

I always thought, that I'd like to have a higher MP count 5D Mk III, but after checking many current lenses real world resolution capabilities, I wonder if it somehow might not be better to just go with 18 MP, where every pixel has more valuable information, than 32 MP where a pair of pixels has the same (not so clean) information in it.

Although for color resolution a higher Megapixel count may still be beneficial (because of the Bayer-pattern).

Well, let's be surprised, maybe there will be some new superresolution "L"-lenses that justify the use of a higher MP sensor. 8)

 

[danbroom]

I'm totally losing faith in this site.

1. 30+mp sensor: what rubbish! Canon has shown that performance and resolution are more important to it than Megapixels it'll be 18+ like the X or slightly more than 21+full frame sensor. If there was a 30+mp sensor around we'd know. Nikon doesn't have it either!
2. Video wise it'll offer added features, more codecs, audio monitoring and a flip out screen like the 60d. I don't think they'll be adding XLR!
3. auto focus lesser than the 7d? The main criticism of the 5d iii has been it's sluggish autofocus I would have thought this would have been top of their list from the start.

what do you think?I would ignore this as disinformation and look to the 1dx to see whats in the pipline

 

[Matthew Saville]

I think this is inevitable. Especially with the Nikon D800 rumors coming out with 36 megapixels and no AF improvements either. It just sounds like both brands are trying to make up for the fact that, given this economy, there is no market for an $8K high-res camera anymore. They've realized that the best market for high-res is in the $3-4K range. The 1Ds mk3 and D3X sold well, but not as well as the 1DX and D3s will sell / have sold. And not nearly as much as a 5D mk3 / D800 would sell.

HOWEVER, don't forget that Nikon still has a D4 coming, and Canon still has the opportunity to make an affordable 1DX.

It's pretty understandable that Canon will NOT be able to make an "affordable version of the 1DX" right at the same time as the 1DX hits shelves. Like the D3 and 1Ds mk3, we'll have to wait about a year for the affordable version.

So, after the 1DX this march, I'm predicting a 5D mk3 shortly afterwards, as well as a Nikon D4, (in time for the summer olympics, right?) and THEN, within 12 months of next march, we'll see the lower-resolution, "affordable" versions of the 1DX / D4.

The only question is, will these cameras be super-cheap, with 60D / D7000 body parts, or will they be high-end, like the "3D" or 6D (basically, a 5DX) rumors have been saying? I dunno, but I'm hoping for the latter!

By the way, I posted more thoughts about this particular rumor on http://slrlounge.com ...as well as my 2012 Canon predictions in general. (24-70 mk2, etc.)

=Matt=

 

[parsek]

If these rumors hold true, I will be very very pleased. Sounds like a camera to me. Especially if added dynamic range and proper weather sealing is part of the package.

I doubt Canon would fit a 7D inferior AF system in 5DmkIII. It seems unlikely. That said, I could not care less about an insane ultra fast AF system. I am aware that this is crucial to a lot of sports and wild life photographers. I´ve shot weddings, concerts and photo journalism using very OLD AF systems or none with no problem. I don´t see why so many current photographers constantly whine about the limitations of AF. Hire a focus puller if you are that bad [it was a joke, get with it]

Video with rolling shutter! Who cares for any serious work anyway?

I certainly hope video stays "a very neat blooming gimmick" with the 5DmkIII. Personally I want a camera, not a video camera, therefore I want Canon to not spend money on R&D and fitting of an upgraded video system for a 5D series camera. The arrival of C300 is a happy one and should ensure the increments and improvements on the video aspect stay negligible.

I´d like a 5DmkIII that excel in sublime single frame output thanks. One that can even push current L-series glass and that of tomorrow, plus blow away the dynamic range of low contrast print film.

 

[dr croubie]

Canon has shown that performance and resolution are more important to it than Megapixels.

Have they? I think they've picked the market very well, if the market wants a low-light body, that's what the flagship (and flagship pricetag) delivers very well.

Think about it this way: If you really really want a low-light body, for weddings and events (ie, where waterproofing, 61pt AF and 12fps aren't exactly needed), why would you buy the 1DX when you can get the same sensor in a 5D3? Exactly. The 1DX sensor might trickle down the chain eventually, but not for a year after 1DX-release.

The more people talk up how much they want a low-light body, the more likely it's going to be that the 5D3 will not be, if you want low-light so badly, buy the 1DX. If you can't afford a 1DX, jump ship. But jump ship to what? To the also-high-megapixel (presumably) D800? To the 3-year-old-and-only-12MP D700/D3s, or the discontinued a850/900, the aps-c K5/a77? (if you were going to, why haven't you already?)
If there's no low-light competition from nikon, pentax, sony, or from within canon, and you really really need full-frame low-light performance in more than a 12MP body, then you're forced into the 1DX.

Well played, Canon marketing, well played.

 

[UncleFester]

Just faster. More points is pointless but better control over AF speed is really all the 5D line needs, imo.

For all you people who want better AF in the 5D3, what do you mean by better?

- More points, no matter how they perform?
- More f/2.8 and cross-type points? (regardless of how much light and how many total points there are)
- Points that work in less light? (regardless of how many there are and what aperture they are sensitive to)

The "better-AF" is probably the most-read debate about the 5D3 besides the "32+MP vs 18MP high-iso" debate.
For anyone who bought the 5D2 upon release (or within a year), was the AF good for you then? Did it only get worse once the 7D came out? If they come out with 19pt AF and then the 7D2 has 27pt AF, will the 5D3 be useless then too?

 

[UngerPhotography]

Why would you need 'superior' autofocus in a 5D mark 3 ??
It is a high resolution portrait and landscape camera , so that is what its made for.
You want both worlds buy an extra 7D or just one 1D-X and sell the rest of your camera's.

People (i am talking amateurs here) are just never satisfied , we always want something better, newer and more expensive which does rarely improve your pictures.
It just makes you lazier in your technique!

Would not we al buy the new Canon 1D-X + lenses if we could so easily afford it ?
And end up spending over 10.000 euro's just to get more great (but everso always the same) pictures of your running kids inside your lowlighted house or the same pictures of your favorite area

Yesterday I was just walking around sundown without a tripod and got lucky to get some of the best landscape pictures I ever did.
No lens or camera can make up for a that split moment when weather ,light and circumstances come together in just a minute window or so.
A simple T2i plus a very old 75/300 lens got the job done.

Very well said.

I would love to be able to purchase the 1D X, but I don't need it for most of my photography. For sports, I am waiting to hear about the 7D II or whatever is going to replace that, but for portraits, landscapes, and studio work, the 5D II does an incredible job. For sports and wildlife, the 7D does an incredible job.

People want a 1D X for the price of the 5D, and that isn't going to happen.

 

[Loswr]

I doubt Canon would fit a 7D inferior AF system in 5DmkIII. It seems unlikely.

Flash back. It's early 2008, the 40D with its 9 cross-type AF has been out for some time and everyone in the Interverse believes a 5D successor is coming soon. Most people are sure the 5DII will a better AF system, since it seemed quite 'unlikely' that Canon would fit a 40D-inferior AF into their new 5-series body.

The 5DIII will not be a 'baby 1D X' with all the features at a fraction of the price. The 5DIII will not be a 'full frame 7D'. The 5DIII will be an incremental update to the 5DII - significant improvements in limited areas, minor or no changes in many others. Canon's marketeers will say otherwise, but that's the reality.

 

[Picsfor]

As i've oft said, and also to Canon directly, the issue with the 5D2 AF is not that it doesn't match the 7D, 1D4 or 1DX, it is just that it has a single centre focus point of any use.

I do not expect an AF system to match any of the cameras, but it should at least make all 9 points cross hairs, or usable. Centre point is fine for a landscape - but portraits and weddings etc really do need to be able to select an outer point and know it's not going to hunt for a lock whilst the precious moment goes by.

I do not believe that is too much to ask, whether it comes with 21mp or 36mp, with it comes with usable iso of 6400 or 51k.

It is the same focusing system i had on the 30D and 40D - and yet i would argue that the 40D focusing was far superior in most cases - certainly from my experience.

But i do not think that amending all 9 AF points in to full cross hairs is worth any increase in price - given that it would still be largely inferior to what Nikon give away on most of their cameras.

As for what is 'my type' of camera - i think i'm a bit of an all rounder, so what would that suggest as my ideal camera? a 5D2 and a 7D?

Just that i can't get on with the 7D - so my next option is?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

"...aimed at high megapixel/high ISOÂ performance."

Seems counterintuitive. That aside, the thought of the AF being less than the 7D is a downer.

Even more so when there is talk of Nikon improving upon their already pro-level D700 AF for the D800 and giving it a way to get to 6fps. Hate to say it but if the D800 are remotely close and these 5D3 specs are correct I think it's going to get ugly really fast.
And since this body will be meant to last at least anotehr three years we would be talking 3+4+3 at least a decade for them to even have a chance to get 5 series above 3.9fps, in any fashion, an to get to even a semi-pro AF level.
I guess they want to leave people feeling they also need a 7D2, but I wonder if they don't end up with people just sticking with their 5D2 and upgrading the less expensive 7D series model instead (or some migrating to Nikon).

Anyway, this is just CR1, but just in case it is a feeler from Canon marketing.... FAIL.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Given what I've read lately in other posts, about "waiting to see 1DX sales figures" and the mythical 36MP D800 that still is nowhere to be seen, I reckon Canon are sitting on a few prototypes and they haven't actually decided which one to release yet, waiting on sales figures for all of the 1DX, D3X/D4, D800 before they decide which one to release.

Still, this agrees with what i've been thinking. I'm putting 99% probability on:
- no RAW video, xlr inputs, probably not even mic-input gain setting, that's for the cinemaEOS whatever it will be called.
- no video better than C300, full stop. Video as good as 7D/60D, maybe one or two minor features better. Don't expect wonders.
- Either 1DX's 18MP sensor, or a 32MP+ that will shrink to worse-looking images than 1DX at 3200iso and above (in which case it will be called the 2/3/4D and priced $3500-4k)
- 7D-or-worse AF. Don't expect 45pt. Ever. I'm half not even expecting 19pt. Either 15pt as current (but all 15 selectable), or they'll re-use the 7D's 19pt to save R&D costs (but then the points will be very close to the FF centre-of-frame). (maybe even use some rejected 7D-sensors with 4-8 points disabled?). It's not a sports-camera, get used to it.
- 1 digic 5 or 5+, no more than 4fps. It's not a sports-camera, get used to it.
- FF, ungripped, no flash pentaprism, obviously.
- I'd really like to see dual-cf slots, or 1 cf slot. I definitely don't want to see 1cf+1sd, that's a recipe for the death of CF and i'd like my investment to stay valuable.

Maybe so but I think this time quite a few might just stick with their 5D2 and not even bother if that is all they can do after four years. Maybe some will get a 70D or 7D2 for reach and the improved video. Maybe some will even finally say hello to Nikon.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

For all you people who want better AF in the 5D3, what do you mean by better?

- More points, no matter how they perform?
- More f/2.8 and cross-type points? (regardless of how much light and how many total points there are)
- Points that work in less light? (regardless of how many there are and what aperture they are sensitive to)

The "better-AF" is probably the most-read debate about the 5D3 besides the "32+MP vs 18MP high-iso" debate.
For anyone who bought the 5D2 upon release (or within a year), was the AF good for you then? Did it only get worse once the 7D came out? If they come out with 19pt AF and then the 7D2 has 27pt AF, will the 5D3 be useless then too?

While I agree the 9-point AF sensor in the 5D II with its single cross-type sensor in the middle (which is, as far as I can tell, the same AF system in all of canon's consumer-grade cameras) is ATROCIOUS for a professional-grade camera, I don't think it needs to be replaced with a super-duper top of the line system either. I don't think anyone can really expect the advanced sports-and-action capable AF system of the 7D. The 7D line is designed for a different purpose than the 5D line, so it doesn't really make sense to me to include an advanced action-tuned AF system in a camera that is more designed for low- or no-action work like landscapes, studio portraits, etc.

I think something similar to the 7D's 19 cross-type system would be useful, and help keep the cost of the camera from reaching $4000. A 19-point AF system with perhaps only 9 cross-type sensors (a cross in the center plus the four outer points) would certainly be an improvement on the existing AF in the 5D II, and should improve focusing for wedding, portrait, and even wildlife/bird photography sufficiently (although I think most serious wildlife/bird photographers would opt for the 7D anyway for the greater reach.)

I certainly don't see much beyond my own intended use for a 5D III, though, which is all nature-oriented (landscapes, macro, still wildlife, astrophotography). I can't really say how much a better AF system might really be needed by other types of photographers who need an affordable full-frame camera.

Who ever said the 5 series MUST be held to being solely a nature, tripod camera it's been 7 years and will be a decade to 5D4, at least, and it should take that long to get a FF body with even semi-pro performance after all the bragging Canon did about how Nikon was pathetically far behind them when it came to FF in every conceivable fashion?
Maybe they don't have to go 8fps with it but they can surely match 40D fps and response by now and with the 1DX getting a super new-fangled AF, they sure as heck can do better than a crippled 7D AF, come on. I mean for some things under some conditions I can't even say I trust my 7D AF as much as I do my 5D2 AF!

If they want to take the market by storm and pressure out Nikon even a little now they could think a better performing 7D AF system or 1D4 AF module. Heck, if they had gone all out with everything a few years back Nikon might barely even be here at this point (although that actually might eventually have turned out to a very bad thing for everyone).

If the rumour is true and they stick with this version I can't help but imagine a decent chance the Nikon effort will make this one look pretty silly.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

i really don´t see a reason why Canon doesn´t put the old 45-AF system combined with the 4fps.. it is utterly useless for sports.. but kicks ass in AF.. being Canon likes to reuse stuff... NO WAY are they going to dump the all new 1D mk4 AF system after one camera model.. either one of the 7D or 5D get the 45-AF.. or.. the 2/3/4D might come to be.. one day... a FF 7D with the 1Dx sensor, 45-AF and 6-8fps for 4k€...

Indeed if they want to grab everyone's attention plop the 1D4 system into it, if they absolutely had to, to make 1DX owners feel better, they could lock out f/8 AF in firmware or something.
I really think they need to get it to the 6.3fps of the 40D level as well. That's just enough to be useful in a poor man's performance sort of way but it is definitely not enough to make the serious pro sports/action shooters give up their 8-12fps beasts. 8fps pretty much guarantees that you get two key frames from most action sequences while 6fps only sometimes does so they won't to risk that. OTOH, unlike 4fps which never does and in that sense is almost semi-pointless at least with 40D speed it's enough to be useful at times.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I don't give a $h!t how many AF points, cross-type points, blah, blah, blah that the 5D3 will have. All I want is an AF system that locks focus quickly, accurately and consistently, especially with moving subjects. Low light AF performance needs to be upgraded substantially as well. ... As long as something works well for my shooting needs, I don't give a rat's ass what the specs may be.

Hopefully you don't give a rat's ass about cost, either, because you're just described the behavior of the AF system in a 1-series camera. So...problem solved - get a 1DsIII, 1D IV, or a 1D X when it comes out. I can almost guarantee that, given the requirements you outline, you're not going to be happy with the AF of the 5DIII.

neuroanatomist, there comes a point where planned obsolescence and the forced withholding and temporary suppression of iterative tech upgrades for marketing/product line purposes and colluding with the competition to compete softly in the market will backfire in the faces of the offenders. Canon should be happy to have an opportunity to dominate and make riches in a period in time where no one deserves to be rich, something that can be taken away virtually overnight if it's mistreated or gambled. Why am I saying this to you? Because it sounds like you've gotten to the point where you believe the marketing bullS___ is as sound and real world as your photographic mathematics and science.

+1

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Here are the 'basics' that I'd like to have in the 5dmIII;
* at least 25MP
* pro-AF which focusses rapidly, locks on
* dual digic V
* higher/better video capacities
* the fps I dont really cant about, though about 5fps would be good
* 1Dx's ISO or something similar to it

Here are the 'basics' that I'd like to have you're likely to get in the 5dmIII;
* at least 25MP 18 MP (but maybe more if they decide not to reuse the 1D X sensor)
* pro-AF which focusses rapidly, locks on
* dual digic V
* higher/better video capacities
* the fps I dont really cant about, though about 5fps 4 fps would be good
* 1Dx's ISO or something similar to it

And here is what Nikon is about to get.... more sales.

 

[parsek]

I doubt Canon would fit a 7D inferior AF system in 5DmkIII. It seems unlikely.

Flash back. It's early 2008, the 40D with its 9 cross-type AF has been out for some time and everyone in the Interverse believes a 5D successor is coming soon. Most people are sure the 5DII will a better AF system, since it seemed quite 'unlikely' that Canon would fit a 40D-inferior AF into their new 5-series body.

I had no idea this was the case. Thanks for illuminating this. Still this is not a real drawback for me, since AF does not matter much for me.

I very much agree on your take on the 5DmkIII.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I doubt Canon would fit a 7D inferior AF system in 5DmkIII. It seems unlikely.

Flash back. It's early 2008, the 40D with its 9 cross-type AF has been out for some time and everyone in the Interverse believes a 5D successor is coming soon. Most people are sure the 5DII will a better AF system, since it seemed quite 'unlikely' that Canon would fit a 40D-inferior AF into their new 5-series body.

The 5DIII will not be a 'baby 1D X' with all the features at a fraction of the price. The 5DIII will not be a 'full frame 7D'. The 5DIII will be an incremental update to the 5DII - significant improvements in limited areas, minor or no changes in many others. Canon's marketeers will say otherwise, but that's the reality.

Quite a gamble though that +9MP alone will be worth the potential upgrade cost of $1500+ since 21MP isn't THAT low so people are partially satiated, although many wouldn't mind more reach but maybe they say may as well just get it in 7D2 then which will also bring the better video, even more reach and 8fps and maybe finally truly solid AF and cost less than 5D3. If they at least give it a much improved AF and 40D speed then it becomes enough of an all around to mayeb really get a wide variety of people interested.

 

[Benpunta]

Hello - I'm new here in the forum.... but been visiting the site for years

Anyway.... I've got to agree with the comments from 'neuroanatomist' .....basically Canon are ultimately a business in it to make profit pure & simple, ....we might of all complained about how bad the 5D & 5D2 focussing was (even after reading reviews)... but hey, they still sold a shed load!

I recently got to spend about 1 hour playing with the new 1DX the other day .....and chatting with the guy from Canon, who was closely guarding it.

As always (obviously)... he wasn't giving away any new possible info about future cameras (particularly my questions about the possible 5D3 !) ....but one thing he did mention, was that Canon certainly weren't going to make the same mistake they did with cannibalising sales of the 1Ds3.... when they released the 5D2.

The 1DX will be the 'Ferrari' of their line-up..... (his words) .......he also mentioned..... that Canon IS listening and evaluating all the feedback!

I suppose it's nothing we didn't already know..... but it just re-confirms the comments from 'neuroanatomist'

That the 5D3 .....will have to be substantially different this time for Canon not to not have a repeat performance, so unfortunately IMO - the autofocus will probably remain the same if not only marginally better.

I own a 5D & 5D2.... and just as much as everyone else, I would love to have autofocus that nailed it dead on every time, in low light (EV - 2), without the need to use an ST-E2 as a focus assist! ...and that also works on moving subjects - (not running sports like subjects! ...just walking towards camera in low contrast like situations would be fine). Obviously it's not all that doom & gloom, as the images it produces are amazing..... you just learn to work with it's shortcomings, and occasionally get disappointed when it misses a moment because of it.

For me & my business (commercial & weddings)... personally the 1DX is probably looking like it will be the perfect camera! ...18mp is ideal in terms of file size, I pretty much only shoot on SRAW1 anyway, unless the client really needs large files. The ISO improvement looks amazing (from what I could see) hopefully the dynamic range is too (though I'll pass judgement on both of those on the final release product & reviews) ....and the speed of the autofocus was just sublime & so natural in your hand, especially coming from the 5D2 center point re-compose method! Selecting your focus point is just ridiculously fast!!

So what's the issue....?? .....for me (and probably lots of people) - it's just the price! ...I realise it's never going to be in the ball park of 5D2 prices but if it was £1000 less.... I'd be pre-ordering now!

But this just makes me want to work harder and save more! ...I reckon it will come down slightly after a few months, and start to level off (as does any new camera at launch) but it's starting price (which apparently according to the - Canon Rep) ...is still liable to change before March, as economic and competition factors still play a major part in deeming what it's final price will be at launch.

5D3 - whatever it will be! ......IMO - I just can't see it being the camera for me now..... and especially after handling and knowing what the 1DX can do.... and then thinking logically about how Canon have played their cards in the past.

So come on Nikon - where's your new D4... at a reasonable price?

 

[hambergler]

Neuro... -realistically, what physical/manufacturing cost savings would leaving out a reasonable auto-focus system provide? I'm thinking in terms of raw material it's next to no extra costs, and in terms of manufacturing techniques, it's nominal for them to make the extra effort

Handicapping the 5DIII AF isn't a production cost-saving measure, it's a marketing strategy to drive differentiation. As whatta correctly points out, including AFMA in the 60D would have been essentially free (there's no hardware component, and the algorithm was already done), but they chose not to do that. Fundamentally, they need to have market separation between the 1D X and the 5DIII (and between any other lines, as well), and AF performance is one way to do that - it's one that Canon has a long history of using. IMO, especially if Canon puts a >21 MP sensor in the 5DIII, they'll need to have other ways to differentiate it more strongly from the 1D X than if they use the same 18 MP sensor as the 1D X.

Think of features as a set of sliders like you see in financial/loan calculators, and set has to sum to a fixed final ranking. So, the 1-series has all the sliders pegged to the right-hand side (100%), and the xxxxD has them all pegged to the left (0%). For models in between, think of xxxD at 25%, xxD at 50%, and xD at 75%. Compare 7D to 5DII - the 7D has sensor size and MP bumped down (APS-C is not as good as FF, 18 vs. 21 MP), so the frame rate and AF sliders are bumped up, as is weather sealing. If the 5DIII has FF, higher MP, equivalent AF as 7D, 5 fps, better sealing, etc., it becomes 90%, not 75%, and that's too close to the 1D X. In other words, the better the sensor in the 5DIII, the worse (relatively) the other features. For example, a 5DIII with a 28 MP FF sensor with the ISO improvements approaching the 1D X would likely mean using the exact same AF as the 5DII, lower FPS and perhaps even reduced build quality/sealing. These trade-offs aren't necessarily determined by costs, but rather by marketing strategy.

AF type? Nikon seems to have a better AF approach

True - Nikon doesn't differentiate the pro line from the semi-pro line with AF. Instead, they differentiate based on sensor resolution. You can get 'pro' AF short of the D3x, but then you're limited to 16 MP APS-C or 12 MP FF. If you want high MP and pro AF, you're stuck with the $8K D3x.

By your logic the D3s should not even exist then since is no difference from the D700 and the D3s since they have the same MP and same AF system.

I for one am planning on getting 1DX but with a poor AF system I would not consider getting a 5D III in tandem with it whereas if it had a pro level AF system I would probably end up getting both. That is assuming it is not just a dumbed down version of the 1DX and actually has a high MP FF sensor