A New EOS Pro Body With 46mp Next Month? [CR1]

[Hannes]

How many will they sell?

Enough.

Canon has always catered for the professionals at that end of the market, not the enthusiasts on a forum. The previous 1D cameras have sold for the same money, in fact more when you take inflation in to account. A higher end product will carry a better margin per unit sold. The sensor will cost roughly the same, the extra 1D internals not very much and the bigger body a bit more to make. The professionals who buy one or two cameras for $8k a pop have different expectations than the average consumer does and canon seems to be doing a better job segmenting the market than nikon.

 

[StudentOfLight]

Question, when the 1Ds X really has 46MP, how big is that chance that the 5D MK4 will be in the 30 MP range?

If the 46MP rumor is true it seems Canon is stepping away from their 20-22 MP are enough mantra?

Or is this maybe a 14 MP Foveon sensor?
But that would make no sense.

Read this article (google translated) to understand why it doesn't make sense to go much higher than 30-something megapixels on full frame:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photoscala.de%2FArtikel%2FWie-viele-Megapixel-verkraftet-eine-Kamera&edit-text=&act=url

It's the laws of optics you won't be able to break.

note: full frame translates to small image in the article because the german word for 24x36 is also Kleinbild.

Canon's 40mm pancake could deliver at least 34 MP given a pixel pitch of about 5 micron on full frame and this is a lens everyone can afford. So for higher-end glass (e.g. 600/4, 300/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 500/4, 200/2 etc...) more than 40MP sounds useful. Those lenses (like the new Otus lenses) could probably top out at around 42-52MP based on how they resolve on the 70D.

 

[Dylan777]

Too much MP for my taste.

Sounds just about right for landscapes. If only it has the DR...

Completely agree, totally.

This would be a Pro Body, main competitors being the Phase One IQ250, Pentax 645z & Haselblad H5D, basically anything with the Sony 50MP CMOS Sensor in it (and you can bet good money that Sony are about to drop that Sensor into their own body, sooner not later), is that worth competing with ?? I think so, I hope Canon does as well.

Price ??, about right, Competes well with the price of the 645z, certainly competes more than well with the Phase One & Haselblad (Sony will do it for 1/3 the price, but that have zero Lenses to match without Zeiss).

Will it happen, no idea, but I certainly hope so.

Edward & jrista,
Sold my a7r last week(keeping my FE55). I plan to add a7s in future. I guess I'm more into high ISO than DR.

Let me know how the A7s is. Are you going to use it with Canon lenses w/ adapter, or Zony lenses? (Yup, Zony...Zeiss+Sony lenses. ) I'd be curious in knowing how the AF performance is with the A7s and Canon lenses with adapters if you go that route.

I do not plan to use with Canon lenses. I prefer their native lenses. Might add FE35 and new FE16-35 for travel. Since the battery is not that great, instead trying to improve it, Sony now putting an extra battery to a7s kit ;D

I tried the adapter + Canon lenses on my a7r = crappy(IQ doesn't look right, plus balance is off, feel weird).

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Nice, except when you're having to bring new manufacturing processes "on-line." If the investment costs are steep, you can bet you'll be charged whatever it takes to recoup the R&D investment.

The good news is that the BOM costs drop over time. Otherwise, how could we pay 6000USD for a FF 1DsMII and now buy better sensor tech from Canon in 18-20mpixel at 600USD a pop?

But you knew that, right? ;D ;D ;D

...
But i still rather sell 1000 pieces and make 10 dollar netto profit each than 10 pices and make 20 dollar profit each.

Especially when i get more NEW customers with a cheaper camera, who will then buy more lenses and stuff.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Sorry. I thought you'd misspelled something. I see you meant what you wrote.

you know what netto means?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_profit

 

[torger]

D800, D810 and A7r have been proven popular. Crossover into medium format space. $9k is still cheap compared to medium format. A high MP body is a good idea, but if Canon cannot compete in dynamic range at base ISO I think it's better to wait until they can.

Canon has so far prioritized video and other advanced sensor features ahead of absolute image quality at base ISO. It's probably the right thing to do for the bulk of photography, but to succeed with a high MP body I think they need to rethink and really do everything they can do get the best possible image quality out of the sensor at base ISO, possibly sacrificing some other features.

 

[Maui5150]

I could see this. Canon has been rumored to have a high MP out in the wild and this would make sense to me to be a Pro body studio / landscape camera. I don't consider this competition to the 810, but rather squashes the D4s... you know... that is supposed to be Nikon's "flagship" camera.

So if, and big if, Canon does this, it looks to be a high MP, high ISO likely lower FPS that would be 1/3rd more MP than the 810 and 3x the MP of the D4s

Canon to me has seemed quiet the last few years, so perhaps they have been stock piling ammo and are about the change the landscape.

7D MK II does appear to be a formidable crop sensor camera aimed at sports photogs and should be king of the crop if the image quality and iso performance is decent.

The 1Dx seems to still be the best all around pro body for AF, MP, FPS ISO etc

This body not only would address the High MP which seems to be lacking from Canon's arsenal, but really becomes a sub-$10K MF if the DR and image is solid.

And I see a higher MP version of the 5D line, maybe not 36MP but higher than the current offering for sure.

 

[raptor3x]

I could see this. Canon has been rumored to have a high MP out in the wild and this would make sense to me to be a Pro body studio / landscape camera. I don't consider this competition to the 810, but rather squashes the D4s... you know... that is supposed to be Nikon's "flagship" camera.

I think it's a bit silly to compare this theoretical high MP Canon body to the D4s, completely different animals. It's real competitors would be the D810, A7R, and the 645Z.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

It seems "unnatural" to me that Canon would show something to "selected parties" only to keep it under wraps for so long.

I doubt we'll ever know for certain, but the way things are playing out, I think Canon has had a significant amount of trouble moving the big sensors from the lab into production. I'll Bet a Beer that Canon ran into manufacturing/process problems of some kind.

... Canon to me has seemed quiet the last few years, so perhaps they have been stock piling ammo and are about the change the landscape...

 

[tculotta]

I disagree that this camera would not compete with the D4s, but would compete with 810. I think it would be an answer to both. it would offer the robustness, FPS, and "pro" features that the D4s (and the 1Dx for that matter) offers and also offer the high MP features of the D810. The high MP successor to the 5D Mk. III would be the one that competes with the D810. The 1Dx successor that is the topic of this thread would trump all of 'em. My $0.02.

 

[Maui5150]

I could see this. Canon has been rumored to have a high MP out in the wild and this would make sense to me to be a Pro body studio / landscape camera. I don't consider this competition to the 810, but rather squashes the D4s... you know... that is supposed to be Nikon's "flagship" camera.

I think it's a bit silly to compare this theoretical high MP Canon body to the D4s, completely different animals. It's real competitors would be the D810, A7R, and the 645Z.

Why?

What is Nikon's top of the line body? Is it the D4s or is it the 810?
Hint... The D4s is $6500 and the D810 is under $3K.

Nikon's top of line camera, as well as Canon's often have lower MP than their next-in-line - hence 18MP for the 1Dx and 22 MP for the 5D MK III

the 1Ds MK III was 21MP and the 1D MK IV was 16 MP, so Canon has the history in the 1D body of having a more all around and then a Studio / high MP model. The 1Dx was sort of a change.

So sorry, from what the rumor is and what placement makes sense, if this is a high MP studio body then this is competing against the D4s and it would be 1Dx vs D4 and 1Dxs vs D4s

Something tells me Nikon fanboys don't like that comparison.

 

[unfocused]

This camera is firmly in the realm of: "will be delivered by elves riding unicorns."

Still, I encourage everyone to actively participate in this thread as every minute spent here is a minute that can't be spent whining about dynamic range.
Oh, and for the guy who said the D810 was cutting into Canon's market share: Amazon best sellers as of this morning: Canon 7DII #1. D810 #9.

 

[raptor3x]

Why?

What is Nikon's top of the line body? Is it the D4s or is it the 810?
Hint... The D4s is $6500 and the D810 is under $3K.

Nikon's top of line camera, as well as Canon's often have lower MP than their next-in-line - hence 18MP for the 1Dx and 22 MP for the 5D MK III

the 1Ds MK III was 21MP and the 1D MK IV was 16 MP, so Canon has the history in the 1D body of having a more all around and then a Studio / high MP model. The 1Dx was sort of a change.

So sorry, from what the rumor is and what placement makes sense, if this is a high MP studio body then this is competing against the D4s and it would be 1Dx vs D4 and 1Dxs vs D4s

Something tells me Nikon fanboys don't like that comparison.

If you think a high MP low frame rate studio/landscape body is competing against a low MP high frame rate sports body just because they're priced similarly then I'm not sure what to say to you. Does that mean that the 7D2 is competing against the A7R because the price is similar? Or that the 17 TS-E is competing against the 70-200VRII?

 

[clicstudio]

Canon needs it...

Even phones have 40+ MP cameras.
Even if u don't like it, big MP are a necessity.
Hasselblad woudn't sell as many medium formats if they were 20mp.
I don't get it. Real pros want more resolution.
Even at $8000 it would be a steal compared to $25000 on medium format.
Bigger and more is always better.
Look at the new iPhone 6. 4 million preorders on the first night.
Why they stuck with 8MP camera? It's ridiculous to me.
Canon needs to step it up and crown themselves as the best camera makers in the world.
If They can, They should.

 

[mackguyver]

...and the memory card and hard drive makers rejoice...if this is true.

More MP sounds great, but I've been shooting with my 1D X more and more over my 5DIII and those extra couple of MP don't seem to matter. 46MP on the other hand sounds amazing and here in Florida, a lot of my landscapes are actually vegetation-scapes so the extra pixels would really help to bring out the leaf details. I'd rather see the sensor in a 5DIV first, though as that's a lot of $$$ if the pricing rumor is true as well.

 

[NancyP]

Show me a full frame Foveon sensor! (Merrill or maybe Quattro, I have experience with Merrill but not Quattro)! (ducks ). THERE would be a MF-killer, for situations with decent light. It astounds me how the 15 MP APS-C semi-pocket mirrorless DP2/3 Merrills blow away the 20 MP 6D files at base ISO.

It has occurred to me that if I wanted to try the big-MP cameras, they can be rented. It might be instructive to rent the Pentax 645Z (familiar if bloated form factor) plus a lens (L bracket, etc) for a weekend. Or, play with the D810 and a lens.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Don't you really mean: Every minute spent here is a minute that can't be spent out making incredible images?

I'm sick and house-bound. That's my excuse and I'm sticking by it.

This camera is firmly in the realm of: "will be delivered by elves riding unicorns."

Still, I encourage everyone to actively participate in this thread as every minute spent here is a minute that can't be spent whining about dynamic range.
Oh, and for the guy who said the D810 was cutting into Canon's market share: Amazon best sellers as of this morning: Canon 7DII #1. D810 #9.

 

[GmanKY]

It's interesting that this article popped just now. Over the weekend, I was doing some serious looking at possibly switching (more like buy an extra body) to the 810, but I'm really invested in Canon. I do landscapes and go big with prints, so I want/need the resolution. I went back through Canon's history, and the past several cycles of the 1D cameras has been every couple of years, and the past couple have been announced in October. So, I decided this weekend to hold off until after Christmas before making any other purchases. I have a bunch of L glass to go with my current bodies, but maybe if I do get the 810, I could get by with just a couple of Nikon or Zeiss lenses. I just hate to switch and sink $ into another system, but I'm also tired of waiting for Canon to quit recycling old sensors and finally move forward a good step. 46MP sensor would be huge, and this is not the first time I've heard that number tossed around. Seems like I read somewhere around 4-6 months ago that there was a 46MP body in the wild for testing. I guess we'll soon see.

Remember the rumored price range is eight to nine THOUSAND. You could pick up a D810 and 14-24mm f/2.8 for six grand, and pocket the extra two grand.

If this rumor is true, then this definitely is not a D800 series competitor. If anything, given the price, this sounds more along the lines of one of those Canon medium format rumors than anything...price wise it sounds like it would compete with the Pentax MFDs.

You're right and I absolutely thought of that, but if Canon did come out with something like this, I wouldn't mind spending the extra money to have a system that works with all of lenses rather than sink 6K into a restricted, one lens system for landscapes. But, it feels like I'm being backed into a corner to go that route. If I got the D810, the 14-24 would be at the top of the list, but I'd likely get the Otus 55mm as well.

I'm just going to have to sit out the next couple of months and see if anything happens and go from there.

 

[Khalai]

Re: Canon needs it...

Even phones have 40+ MP cameras.
Even if u don't like it, big MP are a necessity.
Hasselblad woudn't sell as many medium formats if they were 20mp.
I don't get it. Real pros want more resolution.
Even at $8000 it would be a steal compared to $25000 on medium format.
Bigger and more is always better.
Look at the new iPhone 6. 4 million preorders on the first night.
Why they stuck with 8MP camera? It's ridiculous to me.
Canon needs to step it up and crown themselves as the best camera makers in the world.
If They can, They should.

Unless you are limited by diffraction. Take some recent high MPix APS-C bodies, right now, at f/11, the diffraction is already kicking in and by f/16 it's becoming visible. How about landscapes or macro? f/8-11 is sometimes insufficient. So I disagree in bigger being better. Not everytime...

 

[Maui5150]

Why?

What is Nikon's top of the line body? Is it the D4s or is it the 810?
Hint... The D4s is $6500 and the D810 is under $3K.

Nikon's top of line camera, as well as Canon's often have lower MP than their next-in-line - hence 18MP for the 1Dx and 22 MP for the 5D MK III

the 1Ds MK III was 21MP and the 1D MK IV was 16 MP, so Canon has the history in the 1D body of having a more all around and then a Studio / high MP model. The 1Dx was sort of a change.

So sorry, from what the rumor is and what placement makes sense, if this is a high MP studio body then this is competing against the D4s and it would be 1Dx vs D4 and 1Dxs vs D4s

Something tells me Nikon fanboys don't like that comparison.

If you think a high MP low frame rate studio/landscape body is competing against a low MP high frame rate sports body just because they're priced similarly then I'm not sure what to say to you. Does that mean that the 7D2 is competing against the A7R because the price is similar? Or that the 17 TS-E is competing against the 70-200VRII?

No. My point is that from what it sounds like, this may be the 1Ds replacement, i.e. their top line Studio / Landscape hence why I was comparing to the D4s.

I am comparing flagship to flagship regardless of spec. When the 1Dx came out it looked to be a bridge between the 1D and 1Ds lines and it maybe that Canon just needed some more time.

The D810 is a decent camera but is more on par as a high MP version of the 5D MKIII

you want to compare the FPS of the D810 to the 1Dx? How about ISO? AF?

The camera rumored is sounding like a 1Ds hence the natural comparison is either the or the D4s or maybe the aging D3x

the D810? Pfffffffffft