A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information

[pedro]

Lots of talk about features and nick-knacks and specs.

Show me the sensor. The rest doesn't matter to me if the sensor is weak.

Amen to that. It all depends on this. Hope there won't be another incarnation using the same tech (I hardly have clue of it, I confess) but reading and somehow "seeing" what other brands are putting on their shelves, I guess it is about time for Canon to leapfrog a bit.

Using the 5D3 and saving up for the overnext incarnation of a 5D series cam, I can see exciting times rolling around for us amateurs and the pro's as well. But only, if sensor tech improves... I would like to see an extremely well looking ISO 51k on the next or overnext 5D... Anyway, my 5D3 is a great cam, and still more cam than I ever needed... Had the 6D CF card slots, I'd even swap it for one like these...

 

[Vossie]

What is professional? For me the only difference between an amateur and a professional photographer is that the latter one makes money with photos.

Exactly. A pro does it for a living. Some pro's shoot with 1D series, some shoot with xxxD series.

I do agree though with jrista that having many dedicated buttons typically allows for more rapid adjustments of settings compared to touchscreens.

I am really curious to see the final specs and performance of the 7D2. I now have only 1 body, and I would be interested in a 2nd body to cpmplement by 5D3. I would be really interested in a APC-C body with ~20-someting MP, 5D3 like AF, ~10 fps and ISO performance that is max 1 stop worse compared to the 5D3 if it would be priced similar to the 6D.

 

[pedro]

Actual Rumors in Japanese chat forums (got infos from an japanese girlfriend:

- 400.000 Yen (>2900€) (variying 300.000-450.000 Y, most rumors on 400.000)
- designed for sports photography. >10 pps, AF speed on miirrorless camera niveau, fast and accurate AF on moving objects (tracking a lot better than actual 7D)
- operationnal design and ergonomy focused on professional use
- IQ better than 7D, more ISO-range, lesser noise. But IQ/DR is not the main optimization goal ( MK4 5D will be designed as an semiprofessional goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw for an non-professional user)

Intresting forum talk in japanese rumor forums. IF the announcement price is really higher than 2900 €, then a 5DIV will be announced at 4000. Hope this is not true.

 

[dtaylor]

were talking about refined devices meant for a professional, or extreme hobbyist who might as well be a professional.

What makes you think we don't want touch screens?

It's why I brought up airplane cockpits in my prior post...people have talked about making airplane cockpits more modern for decades, however they are still built today primarily with individual dials and knobs and levers and switches and readouts (even the highly advanced Dreamliner).

Ever hear of the glass cockpit? The entire goal has been reduction of the number of dials and knobs and levers and switches and readouts. Granted there are still a lot of those, just like a pro level DSLR would still have twin dials and CFn buttons and a top LCD with buttons for changing settings, etc. But the touch screen has its place.

Because it isn't some run of the mill consumer device meant to be easy...but potentially inefficient...

False dilemma. Again I'll ask if you've ever used a Canon DSLR (or M) with a touch screen? Some things become more efficient. After using the M I find myself inadvertently touching the screens on my DSLRs because my mind clings to the faster/more intuitive method despite years of using Canon's physical UI.

Digging through menus is one thing...however, how often do you really do that?

Card formatting. Sensor cleaning. HTP on/off. MLU on/off. AEB. VF display changes. Wireless flash control. Some or all will be accessed for every shoot (except maybe surfing where I snap the mode dial to C3 and go). Not to mention image review.

Quite a lot actually.

Oh yeah...I would love to have a touch screen when in LiveView.

Touch might offer an alternative means, but I truly don't think it would be any faster or better.

I think at this point it's safe to say I've got my answer. Forget the question of whether or not touch screens are a pro or a con: the public has already spoken. The more interesting question is: why would you be so adamantly against something you've never tried? It's not based on any factual evaluation of or experience with touch screens in DSLRs. What could it possibly be based on? Your rhetoric is impressive in terms of emotional persuasion but seriously lacking in terms of reason and support.

THAT is my photography. THAT is what I do with a camera.

Are you afraid that Canon is going to someday give you a shutter button and a touch screen and nothing else???

Digging around through menu systems, or poking around through the quick access screen, are things I do when I'm NOT actually doing photography.

Some of us have more varied shoots and need to access more features while shooting.

I am just saying...it's NOT how a professional or an avid enthusiast uses a DSLR.

So you have a statistically valid survey of professional and enthusiast users and how they use their cameras? Great! Let's see it ;D

Ask any serious or professional bird or wildlife photographer, sports photographer, probably most any action photographer, and they will likely tell you the same thing. Why would anyone want to pull the camera away from their face to fiddle with a UI when they are actually doing photography?

Why would they have to? Again, do you really believe that a touch screen on a pro level body would replace rather then compliment the physical controls?

 

[dtaylor]

You guys are still totally missing the point. I'll keep it simple:

Please.

I mean, of ALL the things to get irate about...not having a touch UI is a deal killer???

It's not a deal killer for me, but fairly disappointing now that I've got serious time on a camera with a touch screen.

Where are all the people saying not having a 24mp APS-C sensor capable of 14 stops of DR is a deal killer? Oh, right, they are busy wasting their time complaining about the lack of a touch UI.

Another false dilemma?

I know you guys all have your dreams about how useful a touch UI could be for some things.

Dreams? Canon is shipping cameras with touch screens. Some of us have cameras with touch screens. We are actually using touch screens. They are freaking nice.

Like I said, I find myself touching my DSLR screen and thinking "doh! hope Canon adds that to the next version."

They can slap on a touch UI later. Hell, they could slap on a tough UI with a freakin firmware update.

Touch UI requires a physical touch screen. But it is something they could slap on with practically no additional development time. (Not two weeks before the announcement of course. But during development it would have been trivial.)

But...they apparently don't think touch screens are durable enough yet. Maybe they fail under cold or wet conditions, I don't know. I can see that being a valid reason for not putting one on the 7D mkII, but I am disappointed none the less.

 

[Marauder]

I'm not sorry, but if Canon keeps putting out these lack luster offerings, they're only going to meet mediocre sales instead of being a class leader/innovator and end up cutting even more essential features that all their competitors have.

So 12fps, a killer AI servo AF system and heavy duty build on an APS-C body is "lack luster!" Next you'll be saying it's going to fail because it has a mirror and an optical viewfinder. Your predictions remind me very much of the "The 5D3 will fail because it's barely higher megapixels than the 5D2 and the D800 is high megapixel" talk from two years ago. Well, two years on and the 5D3 is still going strong. Primarily because the total package of the product just works, for all kinds of shooters. The 5D3 was targeted specifically at a market and succeeded, but was also great for a variety of shooting. I predict the 7D2 will be even more targeted, but it will also suceed. Yes, wifi and touch screens would be cool features, but they are not the CORE features the target market for the intended target market. Sure, leading class video would be a great feature, but again--not critical for the intended market. I think that Canon wants to give the pro and enthusiast wildlife/sport/action market a camera that meets our specific needs in an APS-C image capture device. It will also be a fantastic camera for other uses as well, but it will be a fast action shooters dream camera (at least if one cannot afford a 1 series camera).

I imagine the 5D4 will probably be a more general purpose camera, with some considerable crossover for more "action" oriented shooting. And it will also be the much better choice for low-light shooting scenarios common for wedding and event shooting. I also expect the 5D4 to be more video-centric as I think the torch for video passed from the 7D line to the 5D line when the 5D3 came into being.

It's a "right camera for the right reason" sort of situation. Just because the 7D2 may not be the right tool for you, doesn't mean it isn't the right tool for those of us who are awaiting it! Personally, I'm glad Canon is not watering the spec for this camera down to cater to the lowest common denominator shooter! 8)

 

[Canon1]

Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

Well, how about pros (or amateurs) who shoot with the 600 EX RT? Or Pros or amateurs who want to change tracking sensitivity or accelerate/decelerate tracking? There are dozens of functions that cannot be adjusted with a camera glued to your face that would be much easier and quicker to accomplish with the swipe of a finger rather than having to work through buttons and joysticks.

People need to open their minds a bit and quit being such Luddites about technology (especially ironic on a forum filled with gearheads). No one has ever suggested that a touch screen would replace the buttons and joysticks, but it is proven technology that would add significant functionality and convenience to enthusiast and pro-level cameras.

+1

You guys are still totally missing the point. I'll keep it simple:

A touch UI is the very LAST thing Canon should be putting effort into for a professional grade DSLR. I don't disagree that it COULD be useful. However, before I wrote my post, I read several comments by people stating that lack of a touch UI was either extremely disappointing or a total deal killer. Personally, I find that to be LUDICROUS!! I mean, of ALL the things to get irate about...not having a touch UI is a deal killer???

This is Canon. This is the company that has taken S___ for the last several years because they don't have sensor IQ as good as an Exmor. Where are all the people saying not having a 24mp APS-C sensor capable of 14 stops of DR is a deal killer? Oh, right, they are busy wasting their time complaining about the lack of a touch UI.

I know you guys all have your dreams about how useful a touch UI could be for some things. That's not my point. My point is...it is by far the least important thing Canon needs to focus on right now as far as the 7D II, or 5D IV, or 1D XI go. Canon needs to improve the things that matter every time you press the shutter button first. Sensor IQ. Metering (and maybe tying in a full high res RGB sensor into the AF system like the 1D X and a ton of Nikon cameras). The PDAF system itself. They can slap on a touch UI later. Hell, they could slap on a tough UI with a freakin firmware update. Touch UI shouldn't be the thing people are whining about being deal breakers...not on the 7D II, not on a professional grade DSLR.

That's my point.

Wow, this has become a painful and annoying thread to read. You have all made your points... Over and over again. Does it really matter if you convince the other guy that you are right? Let it go. It's obvious that some want a touch screen and some people don't. I'm all for a little debate, but this is rediculus... Over a touch screen!!! My advice: Move on and let it go.

 

[Loswr]

@ jrista – you seem to be taking the line of thought that including a touchscreen would come at the price of removing dials/buttons, but there no reason to think that would be the case on a higher end dSLR. Rather, a touchscreen would add functionality. If the 7DII has improved DPAF, would you really want to drive the AF point around the frame with a joystick?

As others have stated, touch screens are becoming the norm - on phones, on remote controls, even on microwave ovens. Your average teenager or twenty-something can type two-thumbed on an iPhone at wpm rates faster than most people can achieve on a regular keyboard. Those are the people becoming professional photographers today.

 

[Marauder]

You guys are still totally missing the point. I'll keep it simple:

Please.

I mean, of ALL the things to get irate about...not having a touch UI is a deal killer???

It's not a deal killer for me, but fairly disappointing now that I've got serious time on a camera with a touch screen.

Where are all the people saying not having a 24mp APS-C sensor capable of 14 stops of DR is a deal killer? Oh, right, they are busy wasting their time complaining about the lack of a touch UI.

Another false dilemma?

I know you guys all have your dreams about how useful a touch UI could be for some things.

Dreams? Canon is shipping cameras with touch screens. Some of us have cameras with touch screens. We are actually using touch screens. They are freaking nice.

Like I said, I find myself touching my DSLR screen and thinking "doh! hope Canon adds that to the next version."

They can slap on a touch UI later. Hell, they could slap on a tough UI with a freakin firmware update.

Touch UI requires a physical touch screen. But it is something they could slap on with practically no additional development time. (Not two weeks before the announcement of course. But during development it would have been trivial.)

But...they apparently don't think touch screens are durable enough yet. Maybe they fail under cold or wet conditions, I don't know. I can see that being a valid reason for not putting one on the 7D mkII, but I am disappointed none the less.

Although the absence of the touch screen surprised me as well, it's certainly not one of my own primary expectations for this camera--and so far the rumours are fitting with my expectations. I'm just wondering if some of the prototypes had touch screens (and maybe wifi) and they failed? It's possible the testing involved some rigorous durability testing and the prototypes with touch screens didn't make the cut. At that point, it might have been a case of priorities. If durability was a higher priority than implementing the touch screen, then a testing failure might have seen it eliminated. Just speculation on my part of course.... :

 

[Loswr]

Just speculation

The same could be said of almost all of these 'known' specs.

 

[Marauder]

Just speculation

The same could be said of almost all of these 'known' specs.

Indeed, but the "what we’re getting is going to be true" seems to indicate high confidence that this information has a certain level of confidence. Moreover, the high frame-rate and new AF system make "sense" for this camera. Only time will tell, but I suspect CR is pretty confident in this information. But if the absence of wifi and touch screen is a matter of high confidence, the "reasons" behind their absence remain an interesting topic for speculation. Needed or not, I think most of us expected the 7D2 to have them...and it's kind of interesting to wonder at the logic. A testing failure might explain much.

 

[Sporgon]

I owned a 650D for a short time that had the touch screen. I sold the camera pretty quick because the overall package didn't suit me at all, but the touch screen worked well, complementing the physical buttons. I had the usual touch screen issues such as use with gloves, not working if the camera was warm and my hands very cold, then being slow to adjust back to physical menu after being used to touch screen. Greasy screen no big deal, wipes away real quick.

I think the touch screen will eventually make it's way to pro orientated camera as a compliment to the physical controls- unlike pop up flash. If it is not included in the 7DII there will be a valid reason for its omission I'm sure.

Not sure about the aircraft cockpit analogy. There isn't the same momentum of sales drive to a massive audience in aircraft. Also all pilots are trained and the many who fly commercially are obviously (hopefully !) professionals. If the only people who used dslr cameras were genuine full time professionals I wonder where the dslr would be now in its development ? Probably still at the 1D / D2 stage, as professionals are notorious for finding a piece of equipment that does the job for them and then staying with it.

What I am going to find interesting is price / spec combination because it will give an insight into how secure the likes of Canon are with their FF premium mark up, and if we are unlikely to see FF coming down in price. Assuming the rumoured specs are anything like correct, if it is priced at about the 6D then Canon are very confident in the FF advantage. However if it's much more expensive then they clearly are not.

 

[Loswr]

Indeed, but the "what we’re getting is going to be true" seems to indicate high confidence that this information has a certain level of confidence.

Perhaps. Note however the lack of a [CR3] designation – rather, this front page post seems to be a restatement of an earlier [CR2] post. The length of this thread says that restatement has served it's purpose of driving site traffic...

The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best." To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented.

Consider the following two previous CR2 posts:

[quote author=Canon Rumors]
We're told there are tons of new DSLR products coming for Photokina this September.

We’re getting more confirmations that the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS will be replaced by a new version with a rotating zoom instead of the push/pull design that the lens currently uses.
[/quote]

[quote author=Canon Rumors]
I’ve been told to expect two more announcements before Photokina begins in September.

We were recently told that a new EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L IS was coming sooner than we originally thought.
[/quote]

Both [CR2] like the original mentions of the 7DII info under discussion. Both mentions of the new 100-400L sound pretty confident. However, one refers to the upcoming Photokina meeting, while the other refers to the Photokina held in 2012.

 

[Marauder]

Indeed, but the "what we’re getting is going to be true" seems to indicate high confidence that this information has a certain level of confidence.

Perhaps. Note however the lack of a [CR3] designation – rather, this front page post seems to be a restatement of an earlier [CR2] post. The length of this thread says that restatement has served it's purpose of driving site traffic...

The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best." To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented.

Consider the following two previous CR2 posts:

[quote author=Canon Rumors]
We're told there are tons of new DSLR products coming for Photokina this September.

We’re getting more confirmations that the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS will be replaced by a new version with a rotating zoom instead of the push/pull design that the lens currently uses.

[quote author=Canon Rumors]
I’ve been told to expect two more announcements before Photokina begins in September.

We were recently told that a new EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L IS was coming sooner than we originally thought.
[/quote]

Both [CR2] like the original mentions of the 7DII info under discussion. Both mentions of the new 100-400L sound pretty confident. However, one refers to the upcoming Photokina meeting, while the other refers to the Photokina held in 2012.
[/quote]

True, there is no CR# for this at all, and that's odd. If they're right, we will know for sure in 3 weeks or so. I suspect they are correct, but only time will tell. Regardless, speculation about a product that one finds exciting is FUN! Well, at least I think it is anyway....

 

[Marauder]

What is the general consensus? I suspect these specs will be fairly accurate because and that the camera will be announced in September because:

1. CR seems fairly confident, both about specs and an imminent announcement.
2. Canon is due for a major camera release.
3. The specs are very similar to previously published specs regarding prototypes.
4. The specs make sense for this camera and its target market!

Anyone else agree, or have a contrary opinion?

 

[unfocused]

The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best." To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented.

I think the touch screen will eventually make it's way to pro orientated camera as a compliment to the physical controls- unlike pop up flash. If it is not included in the 7DII there will be a valid reason for its omission I'm sure.

If this rumor is true (and that's a big "if") then I am inclined to think that the omission of both wifi and touch screen are due to engineering limitations not marketing decisions. There are good, solid reasons why both should be included in a flagship APS-C camera.

As someone else stated, not having a touch screen will be a tremendous handicap for video. I can't believe Canon would omit this feature lightly. In fact, if you are not going to have a touchscreen, I'm not even sure why you would implement dual-pixel technology.

Similarly, I can't see Canon giving up wi-fi if they could avoid it. Again, the lack of the feature will make the camera less attractive for a certain buying segment and I don't think they would do that without some solid engineering reason not to.

I don't know what to make of this, except that I think it does open up the possibility that this body will really be much closer to a 1DX in build quality than to a 5DIII.

No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?

 

[Marauder]

The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best." To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented.

I think the touch screen will eventually make it's way to pro orientated camera as a compliment to the physical controls- unlike pop up flash. If it is not included in the 7DII there will be a valid reason for its omission I'm sure.

If this rumor is true (and that's a big "if") then I am inclined to think that the omission of both wifi and touch screen are due to engineering limitations not marketing decisions. There are good, solid reasons why both should be included in a flagship APS-C camera.

As someone else stated, not having a touch screen will be a tremendous handicap for video. I can't believe Canon would omit this feature lightly. In fact, if you are not going to have a touchscreen, I'm not even sure why you would implement dual-pixel technology.

Similarly, I can't see Canon giving up wi-fi if they could avoid it. Again, the lack of the feature will make the camera less attractive for a certain buying segment and I don't think they would do that without some solid engineering reason not to.

I don't know what to make of this, except that I think it does open up the possibility that this body will really be much closer to a 1DX in build quality than to a 5DIII.

No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?

I suspect that is exactly the case. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a LOT of different prototypes testing various features and configurations. If the prototypes with touch screens proved too fragile for the desired build quality, it was probably scrapped as the build quality was considered the more important feature for the expected market. Ditto wifi--if the prototypes with wifi experienced poor performance due to interference from the heavy-duty body, or the antenna proved to be a weak point in the weather sealing, it might have been decided to remove it from the design. All of this is pure speculation of course (much more so than the actual statement of their absence itself), but I believe it's speculation that makes sense.

I'm not sure I agree that DPAF without touch screen is without utility--true you lose a potent way of selecting focus points for video/live view, but it still allows much, much better focussing in those modes, and you can still use the thumb controller. Also, if the patent showing conventional AF and DPAF working together is relevant to the 7D2, then that is another compelling reason to use it, notwithstanding the lack of a touch screen.

 

[mb66energy]

[...]

Similarly, I can't see Canon giving up wi-fi if they could avoid it. Again, the lack of the feature will make the camera less attractive for a certain buying segment and I don't think they would do that without some solid engineering reason not to.

I don't know what to make of this, except that I think it does open up the possibility that this body will really be much closer to a 1DX in build quality than to a 5DIII.

No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?

I don't see any reason to omit Wifi and touchscreen to keep the body "bombproof". There is not need to use metal to get "bombproof". Polycarbonate and Kevlar are materials used to protect people against projectiles ...

As stated before you need just 2 or three small holes to feed antenna cables from inside to outside and build them in the card compartment flap made of HQ plastics, the battery compartment lid and perhaps in the flash socket - to get omnidirectional connectivity.
Hardened glass or saphir glass are scratch resistant and withstand high forces before they break - a standard in mid end smart phones since several years.

I see two reasons:
- Canon feeds us to think about 70D or 7Dii and a lot of us will get both as primary and secondary body
- Canon will give the 7Dii a "sister modell" with movie oriented features meaning touchscreen for rapid focus point selection and Wifi to do exactly that without touching (and moving) the camera.

My camera would be a EOS 40D with the touch screen and sensor of the 70D - I love the joystick controller and the overall haptics of my 40D or otherwise: I would like a 80D with controls like the former xxD models (<=50D).

So my conclusion is - if the currently anticipated specs are valid - not to buy the 7Dii but to wait another round of camera models (since 2 or 3 years).

 

[Don Haines]

No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

I never liked Canon's wifi implementation. I have had great success using an Eye-Fi card when I need that capability. I dont think that built in wifi would be a deal breaker since it can be added later.

Can you control the camera and use live view over an eyefi card? I have no interest whatsoever in downloading pictures over WiFi.

I have a couple of cameras with WiFi. I have yet to use either of them to download photos, but have used WiFi for taking pictures remotely.

And for those of you who say that you can't have WiFi on a metal shell camera, please explain to me why it works so well on the Olympus TG-3...

 

[Marauder]

[...]


So my conclusion is - if the currently anticipated specs are valid - not to buy the 7Dii but to wait another round of camera models (since 2 or 3 years).

That assumes everyone considers the lack of touch screen and wifi a deal breaker. I personally don't! They'd be nice features, but not critical ones for myself as 90% of my shooting will be with the OVF!