A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

[Canon Rumors]

<p>Every few weeks, we get told that Canon will be using a Sony sensor in the upcoming high resolution Canon DSLR. Today was another one of those days.</p>
<p><strong>Direct Quote

</strong><em>“Canon will buy sony sensors for the next full frame cameras. but they are more a joint venture from Canon and Sony. Sony will make them and they will have EXMOR technology, for Canon they will get the DualPixel AF. <span class="s1">So it’s a patent exchange that helps both companies. S</span>ony will still sell the sensors to Nikon, but only without the DualPixel technology. Sony has the capacity to produce two lines of these 53MP sensors.”</em></p>
<p class="p1">I have yet to hear this from someone I know, it’s all coming from new and unknown sources. Take this with a salt truck. Thankfully, we won’t have long to wait to find out if this is true.</p>
<p class="p1"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[Dylan777]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

interesting approach... ???

More DR for Canon. Better AF speed for Sony mirrorless?

 

[3kramd5]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

How does sony have that capability? They must expend vast resources on their fab lines.

Either way: cool. Hopefully sourcing sensors will bring down the cost.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Either way: cool. Hopefully sourcing sensors will bring down the cost.

Sony's going to want a piece of the action; my guess is that it raises prices.

I'm mixed on this announcement rumor: it's good that the high MP cameras (which I can't afford) will get improved studio/landscape capability. On the other hand, I hope Canon doesn't get out of the sensor business entirely -- we need more competition.

 

[3kramd5]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Either way: cool. Hopefully sourcing sensors will bring down the cost.

Sony's going to want a piece of the action; my guess is that it raises prices.

I'm guessing that Sony can sell Canon sensors at a profit for less than Canon can produce them. But I suppose it's a pipe dream that, if true, any of that savings shows up in MSRP.

On the other hand, I hope Canon doesn't get out of the sensor business entirely -- we need more competition.

Sony, Aptina, Toshiba, Samsung, Fuji, Foveon, etc. are all pushing innovation. I agree that more is better, but one fewer player in a component game isn't necessarily going to impact the market significantly.

 

[NancyP]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Taken with abundant sodium chloride. ;D Well, if it has better dynamic resolution, I may be in. I shoot a fair amount of landscape.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Sony, Aptina, Toshiba, Samsung, Fuji, Foveon, etc. are all pushing innovation. I agree that more is better, but one fewer player in a component game isn't necessarily going to impact the market significantly.

I thought about that, but Canon's size is important.

 

[Canihaspicture]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

They absolutely don't have to produce two different chips. They can produce the same chip simply with the dualpixel feature disabled. This would save Sony a ton of money and the ability to have several customers of the chip.

 

[erjlphoto]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

We have but to wait for the excitement to begin.
No, not the Superbowl....the new Canon.

 

[filipe]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

<p>Every few weeks, we get told that Canon will be using a Sony sensor in the upcoming high resolution Canon DSLR. Today was another one of those days.</p>
<p><strong>Direct Quote


</strong><em>“Canon will buy sony sensors for the next full frame cameras. but they are more a joint venture from Canon and Sony. Sony will make them and they will have EXMOR technology, for Canon they will get the DualPixel AF. <span class="s1">So it’s a patent exchange that helps both companies. S</span>ony will still sell the sensors to Nikon, but only without the DualPixel technology. Sony has the capacity to produce two lines of these 53MP sensors.”</em></p>
<p class="p1">I have yet to hear this from someone I know, it’s all coming from new and unknown sources. Take this with a salt truck. Thankfully, we won’t have long to wait to find out if this is true.</p>
<p class="p1"><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

I guess or not this partnership will extend also for the new rebel 750D, at least for the sensor.

Wouldn't be nice for the new rebel to have top LCD, dual pixel AF and 24.2 sensor from Sony? eheheheh. Or maybe for a lower price only the Sony sensor.

This high mega pixel cameras are beyond my budget or even a FF.

 

[docsmith]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Whatever gives us the best sensor.

BTW, I was looking over at this site and was intrigued that even for Nikon, the D4 and D4S sensors were not from Sony. The site has them listed as Nikon, but I wonder if it is someone else.

http://www.senscore.org/

 

[Khufu]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

DPAF on the sec... no, third(?) generation of A7 cameras would be a massive leap forward! How about sharing some Tele-lens tech with Sony, too? Or EF compatibility? Between them they've nailed it all, divided they're going to have to keep on playing the patent-monopoly vs "what's the next best idea we've got?" game...

Would love to weild a pairing of A7s and A7r bodies with DPAF, sensor shift tech and 400 f/5.6L AF compatibility, amongst other EF lenses - and no, not necessarily to use those last 2 features together ...and a boost in fps would be nice.

*sigh* is there anything we can do to encourage Canon and Sony to play ball?

 

[Lawliet]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

I thought about that, but Canon's size is important.

Compare that size to the volume a production line of your average contract foundry can handle. Imaging sensors aren't that much combined area compared to more mainstream applications - while individually large their total number keeps the amount of wafers to be processed in check.

 

[PureClassA]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

It's going to be hard not to hold my breath on this one, but I'm licking the Salt Mine right now. This makes a lot of sense considering previous discussions that Canon's biggest issue is NOT the sensor, but the read noise itself because the Analog to Digital converter is OFF the sensor die which introduced noise into the signal path and accounts for the loss of 2-3 stops of DR. So Canon can partner with Sony, who it is no competition with for pro level DSLR (not mirrorless) and leverage their manufacturing process without having to invest what assume would be $10s of Millions of their own capital to do it.

I would guess the most important part of the Exmor IS that AD being ON the die and if Sony has a patent application for it... well there ya go.

If this comes to fruition I think jaws will hit the floor in short order. A Sony sensor with Canon AF is insane.

 

[Lawliet]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

The site has them listed as Nikon, but I wonder if it is someone else.

It's a common misconception that you'd need a fab to make a sensor. You only need to provide the specs to a contractor. Nikon has always either bought 3rd party sensors or used their owns, depending on what is more convenient. OTOH having a dedicted line of sensor manufacture means you're stuck with it, can't pay it off with other jobs - all eggs in one basket.

 

[Meh]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

This makes a lot of sense and I had a similar conversation with a friend a few weeks ago after the first rumors of a Sony sensor but my speculation was more along the lines of advancements made in the 7D2 sensor. My thought was that Canon may have been trying unsuccessfully to improve low-ISO noise (Canon sensors were way behind Sony sensors for noise at ISO 100 which limits DR) but didn't want to straight-up use Sony sensors. Advancements made in the 7D2 sensor and also dual-pixel AF may have finally given Canon some patents to trade with Sony so that they don't get hosed on cost.

If this is true... Sony and Canon team up on sensors.... and now Canon has the best of the Sony tech and vice-versa... is Nikon about to die? Without the low-ISO noise advantage on the sensor does Nikon have any selling point left?

 

[gsealy]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

I am thinking that a couple of things might be in play. First, we know that DSLR sales are slacking off. So that means that consolidation in some way or form is going to happen. Maybe Canon's cost model says that for now it is cheaper to subcontract this piece rather than ramping up themselves. Second, the market and competition is pushing for higher MPs right now, and this is a way to get there sooner rather than later. They can continue to be projected as a leader. Lastly, maybe Canon is a little uncertain as to their market projections for their version of a high MP camera. Maybe they can't do a good projection based on the pricing point and features. So rather than investing tons of money on infrastructure to build their own chip (and with higher risk), they are buying from Sony.

 

[racebit]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

This does not make sense to me.
Canon has just put out the 7D2 sensor, which scaled down to FF gives the 53-56MP wanted.
If Canon wanted to put a Sony Sensor on the High MP FF it would put a cut version (same pixel size) on the 7D2.
Or else the 7D2 would be outdated very soon. Canon waited 5 years to update the 7D. If such a major move was about to happen, they would not leave the 7D in the cold, they could wait some more months.
A FF scaled version of the 7D2 sensor makes all the sense in this timing, a few months after, to allow better yelds of the larger version.
If Canon wanted to introduce a Sony sensor, I think it would make more sense with the 5D4, not now with the "5Ds", as Canon has the required tech ready, from the 7D2.

 

[Meh]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

This does not make sense to me.
Canon has just put out the 7D2 sensor, which scaled down to FF gives the 53-56MP wanted.
If Canon wanted to put a Sony Sensor on the High MP FF it would put a cut version (same pixel size) on he 7D2.
Or else the 7D2 would be outdated very soon.

If Canon is truly about to launch a camera with a sensor that uses Sony tech the two companies would have been in negotiations for quite some time. Canon's new tech in the 7D2 sensor along with the dual-pixel AF is very likely all part of the patent trade. Canon R&D would have certainly tried to get around Sony's patents so they obviously did not succeed but made other advancements that they could finally bargain with.

 

[Lawliet]

Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]

Canon has just put out the 7D2 sensor, which scaled down to FF gives the 53-56MP wanted.

But still would have to be read by an external device, which is the root of all the sensor related issues. Both the image quality for still as well as video and everything DPAF related would benefit from a digital readout.