A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]

[Canon Rumors]

<p>I received a vague hint that Canon could be making a surprise Cinema EOS announcement for Photokina. There was no mention of what it could be, or whether or not it was a product announcement or a development announcement.</p>
<p>I receive these sorts of “nudges” every so often and they usually end up being true, but I have zero proof that such a product is coming. The videographers may want to pay  a little attention to Photokina.</p>
<p>As always, I hope to hear some more over the weekend. This post is CR1, so please treat it as such.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[andrewflo]

Keeping it "vague", I think Canon really needs to restrategize their product roadmap to stay competitive with video capable cameras like the GH4 and a7s. With the 1DC and C500 being their 4K shooters at $10k and $20k, how could they possibly do a rumored 5DIV with our sought after 4K video offered at a fraction of the price without crumbling the demand for their high end cinema lineup? Who would be buying a 1DC if the 5DIV competes with it in a smaller form factor at a significantly better price?

The problem is they're sooo heavily invested in their lineup as it stands now. It's going to be a serious challenge for them to shift towards the 4K consumer/prosumer demands. They've spent years and millions developing their lineup as it is now.

With a grain of salt, I think I read someone mention Canon's video-centric customers only making up about 10-20% of their total customer base. So I wouldn't expect them to rush to deliver miracles. Not to mention their current cameras are still selling like hot cakes, so there's no financial burden either. The burden really only exists in meeting customer's high expectations and desires, something large corporations don't always have the luxury of doing.

Canon obviously still reigns in as a major heavy weight, and they definitely deserve it. The EF lens lineup is arguably one of the best in the world. If Panasonic and Sony lens offerings caught up with Canon, they'd be in some serious trouble. But until then, I don't think we'll see landslide shifts in Canon's strategy unfortunately.

I LOVE my Canon system. I've considered going GH4 or a7s for video, but stills work continues to take up half or more of my gigs. Canon's cinema lineup still is very very good, just not the "best" (subjective of course). The DPAF is definitely a step in the right direction.

As far as this CR1 rumor vaguely, I'd be thrilled to see some Mark II's of the C100, C300, and C500 announced or discussed. Those cameras are still beasts that produce beautiful images. Again, I'm doubtful they are being met with the need to replace them, but development and release in maybe late 2015 would be very exciting

It seems like they'll need to step up the cinema line SUBSTANTIALLY in order to make some room for their EOS line to grow into 4K shooters packing as much of a punch as the GH4 and a7s. That was a bit of rant haha. Just my opinion of course... any thoughts or corrections to my understanding of this situation?

 

[expatinasia]

I received a vague hint that Canon could be making a surprise Cinema EOS announcement for Photokina. There was no mention of what it could be, or whether or not it was a product announcement or a development announcement.

I receive these sorts of “nudges” every so often and they usually end up being true, but I have zero proof that such a product is coming.

Interesting, thanks. If my memory serves me correctly, there have been rumours of an update to the C100 for a while now. It is a camera that interests me greatly and would love to hear more from Canon about their future plans for the XF200/205 and C100 range (I think the C300 maybe just a little too pricey for me at the moment).

I would not be surprised if they stopped making the 1DC. It is a camera that never made much sense to me, though I know a few people here have one.

 

[Policar]

Keeping it "vague", I think Canon really needs to restrategize their product roadmap to stay competitive with video capable cameras like the GH4 and a7s. With the 1DC and C500 being their 4K shooters at $10k and $20k, how could they possibly do a rumored 5DIV with our sought after 4K video offered at a fraction of the price without crumbling the demand for their high end cinema lineup? Who would be buying a 1DC if the 5DIV competes with it in a smaller form factor at a significantly better price?

The problem is they're sooo heavily invested in their lineup as it stands now. It's going to be a serious challenge for them to shift towards the 4K consumer/prosumer demands. They've spent years and millions developing their lineup as it is now.

With a grain of salt, I think I read someone mention Canon's video-centric customers only making up about 10-20% of their total customer base. So I wouldn't expect them to rush to deliver miracles. Not to mention their current cameras are still selling like hot cakes, so there's no financial burden either. The burden really only exists in meeting customer's high expectations and desires, something large corporations don't always have the luxury of doing.

Canon obviously still reigns in as a major heavy weight, and they definitely deserve it. The EF lens lineup is arguably one of the best in the world. If Panasonic and Sony lens offerings caught up with Canon, they'd be in some serious trouble. But until then, I don't think we'll see landslide shifts in Canon's strategy unfortunately.

I LOVE my Canon system. I've considered going GH4 or a7s for video, but stills work continues to take up half or more of my gigs. Canon's cinema lineup still is very very good, just not the "best" (subjective of course). The DPAF is definitely a step in the right direction.

As far as this CR1 rumor vaguely, I'd be thrilled to see some Mark II's of the C100, C300, and C500 announced or discussed. Those cameras are still beasts that produce beautiful images. Again, I'm doubtful they are being met with the need to replace them, but development and release in maybe late 2015 would be very exciting

It seems like they'll need to step up the cinema line SUBSTANTIALLY in order to make some room for their EOS line to grow into 4K shooters packing as much of a punch as the GH4 and a7s. That was a bit of rant haha. Just my opinion of course... any thoughts or corrections to my understanding of this situation?

Canon's number one in the "professional" market because of their conservative approach that fits into well-established workflows. Weirdly, it allows them to charge more for less... like with the Alexa vs Red thing.

If you want an a7s or GH4, buy one! I like the ergonomics and image quality on the Canon, but Sony is making strides. Based on my time with the GH3 and F5, though, I'll take ease of use over 4k for now... But if you want image quality cheap, go for it! Canon will be sticking with well-worn standards and when they introduce 4k it will be when they've developed a codec that's easily ingestible for broadcast and it won't offer the same price/performance other cameras offered earlier.

It will still be my top pic by far, I'm guessing.

 

[Daniel 78d]

This may be nothing but I just noticed that the 1dc went from pro video to digital camera category on b&h photo site??

 

[that1guyy]

maybe a 7dc with 4k and high frame rates? HAHAH Canon would never do anything like that.

 

[andrewflo]

Keeping it "vague", I think Canon really needs to restrategize their product roadmap to stay competitive with video capable cameras like the GH4 and a7s. With the 1DC and C500 being their 4K shooters at $10k and $20k, how could they possibly do a rumored 5DIV with our sought after 4K video offered at a fraction of the price without crumbling the demand for their high end cinema lineup? Who would be buying a 1DC if the 5DIV competes with it in a smaller form factor at a significantly better price?

The problem is they're sooo heavily invested in their lineup as it stands now. It's going to be a serious challenge for them to shift towards the 4K consumer/prosumer demands. They've spent years and millions developing their lineup as it is now.

With a grain of salt, I think I read someone mention Canon's video-centric customers only making up about 10-20% of their total customer base. So I wouldn't expect them to rush to deliver miracles. Not to mention their current cameras are still selling like hot cakes, so there's no financial burden either. The burden really only exists in meeting customer's high expectations and desires, something large corporations don't always have the luxury of doing.

Canon obviously still reigns in as a major heavy weight, and they definitely deserve it. The EF lens lineup is arguably one of the best in the world. If Panasonic and Sony lens offerings caught up with Canon, they'd be in some serious trouble. But until then, I don't think we'll see landslide shifts in Canon's strategy unfortunately.

I LOVE my Canon system. I've considered going GH4 or a7s for video, but stills work continues to take up half or more of my gigs. Canon's cinema lineup still is very very good, just not the "best" (subjective of course). The DPAF is definitely a step in the right direction.

As far as this CR1 rumor vaguely, I'd be thrilled to see some Mark II's of the C100, C300, and C500 announced or discussed. Those cameras are still beasts that produce beautiful images. Again, I'm doubtful they are being met with the need to replace them, but development and release in maybe late 2015 would be very exciting

It seems like they'll need to step up the cinema line SUBSTANTIALLY in order to make some room for their EOS line to grow into 4K shooters packing as much of a punch as the GH4 and a7s. That was a bit of rant haha. Just my opinion of course... any thoughts or corrections to my understanding of this situation?

Canon's number one in the "professional" market because of their conservative approach that fits into well-established workflows. Weirdly, it allows them to charge more for less... like with the Alexa vs Red thing.

If you want an a7s or GH4, buy one! I like the ergonomics and image quality on the Canon, but Sony is making strides. Based on my time with the GH3 and F5, though, I'll take ease of use over 4k for now... But if you want image quality cheap, go for it! Canon will be sticking with well-worn standards and when they introduce 4k it will be when they've developed a codec that's easily ingestible for broadcast and it won't offer the same price/performance other cameras offered earlier.

It will still be my top pic by far, I'm guessing.

That's a great point about the value of a conservative approach. I don't have sales figures in front of me to analyze, nor am I seasoned expert of sales trends but obviously Canon has been doing something right for a long time.

But with the last "revolution" they led the pack with the 5DII. Now with this newest "revolution" it seems they're falling behind.

It's not quite enough to send me away from Canon, I just wish we had the best of both worlds

 

[mkabi]

I would not be surprised if they stopped making the 1DC. It is a camera that never made much sense to me, though I know a few people here have one.

Believe it or not, there are so many people like you... its weird... you probably think a stills camera is for pictures only and a camcorder is for video only...

Fact of the matter is, when video was introduced on the 5DII, people tried it and thought... wow... look at the IQ (for video) and the DOF I can get with it. Interchangeable lenses, portability... it just transformed filmmaking.

From my point of view, I was never into photography, and even though I was more inclined to video - the camcorders bored the living crap out of me. My uncles would boast about the image quality of his Rebel XS/XT, and I would care even less, and he would want me to use his crudy camcorder to film his events. I would hold onto it for a while, then I would get bored and then pass the camcorder off to one of my cousins. I remember when I was younger, my family used one of the VHS camcorders. I would zoom in and zoom out, but after awhile, it turned out to be a 1 trick pony.

Along came DSLR video. I think what made me get into it is the amount of work and customization that goes on behind it. To get really good video behind it, you need to work... like clockwork at a film studio, you are adjusting lights, settings like WB and ISO... you need to get the right lens to tell your story through the moving pictures that you take... various angles... various camera movements... Its hard to just tell you... you need to witness it to fully understand it.

Anyway, I hope you understand why 1DC would make sense to someone that was introduced to DSLR video with a 5DII/7D. I have used a C100 before, and to be trully honest with you, its like going back to camcorder days... although there are some of the same capabilities as any DSLR with video.

In any case, here is hoping for a 7DC development announcement at photokina, and/or further price reduction on the 1DC.

 

[mkabi]

maybe a 7dc with 4k and high frame rates? HAHAH Canon would never do anything like that.

In my opinion, this is more possible than a 5DC or even a 5D4 with 4K.

For a couple of reasons:
-Dual-Digic 6
-Professional Build
-crop-sensor is close to super 35mm
-Positioned to be perfectly below the 1DC without crippling it... and maintaining the 1DC's price-point... of course the price will be the same as 5DIII when it was announced i.e. $4K - $5K range.

Though it may cut into C100 & C300 customers, that was always a problem... because the 5DIII and/or 1DX had the same image as the C100 & C300, if not better b/c they are FF. Besides the 5DIII has magic lantern devs behind it, which excels it beyond the C100 & C300, except for the video components.

 

[expatinasia]

I would not be surprised if they stopped making the 1DC. It is a camera that never made much sense to me, though I know a few people here have one.

Believe it or not, there are so many people like you... its weird... you probably think a stills camera is for pictures only and a camcorder is for video only...

You shouldn't jump to such as assumptions.

I use my 1D X for both my still work and my video work, and am extremely pleased with it. It is an amazing camera for stills and produces amazing results for video.

Considering the price of the 1D C, I would always take two 1D Xs over just one 1D C. Every day of the week.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[Brian VA]

I have no idea how accurate these CR1 rumors are. I'm hoping that the "Sasquatch" 100-400L version 2 will make a surprise appearance. The forecasted 400 DO doesn't really make sense to me since I understand the DO line has never been very popular. If the DO does come, the reviews will be an interesting read since I suspect it will be way more $$$ than I can afford. I guess we will all know in just a few days - unless Canon drags out the announcements over the several days of Photokina - then I guess it will take a few more days .

 

[mkabi]

I would not be surprised if they stopped making the 1DC. It is a camera that never made much sense to me, though I know a few people here have one.

Believe it or not, there are so many people like you... its weird... you probably think a stills camera is for pictures only and a camcorder is for video only...

You shouldn't jump to such as assumptions.

I use my 1D X for both my still work and my video work, and am extremely pleased with it. It is an amazing camera for stills and produces amazing results for video.

Considering the price of the 1D C, I would always take two 1D Xs over just one 1D C. Every day of the week.

But that is just my opinion.

Oh... true... but there is so much more than just 4K on the 1DC.
There is various different formats including super 35mm and 1080/60p.
I guess, you have to assume that there are people out there that want internal 4K and FF.
Also, with the current price reduction @$9999, you can only get one 1DX and probably a 5DIII

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Hopefully they are cancelling the 1DC series so they don't have to cripple the 1D and 5D series (they already didn't give 7D2 4k, even though it appears to have more than enough horsepower to drive it).
(although it's really not a joke)

Or they are so incredibly upscaling the 1DC series that it will love room for the 5D4 to be better than the 1DC for video.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Keeping it "vague", I think Canon really needs to restrategize their product roadmap to stay competitive with video capable cameras like the GH4 and a7s. With the 1DC and C500 being their 4K shooters at $10k and $20k, how could they possibly do a rumored 5DIV with our sought after 4K video offered at a fraction of the price without crumbling the demand for their high end cinema lineup? Who would be buying a 1DC if the 5DIV competes with it in a smaller form factor at a significantly better price?

The problem is they're sooo heavily invested in their lineup as it stands now. It's going to be a serious challenge for them to shift towards the 4K consumer/prosumer demands. They've spent years and millions developing their lineup as it is now.

With a grain of salt, I think I read someone mention Canon's video-centric customers only making up about 10-20% of their total customer base. So I wouldn't expect them to rush to deliver miracles. Not to mention their current cameras are still selling like hot cakes, so there's no financial burden either. The burden really only exists in meeting customer's high expectations and desires, something large corporations don't always have the luxury of doing.

Canon obviously still reigns in as a major heavy weight, and they definitely deserve it. The EF lens lineup is arguably one of the best in the world. If Panasonic and Sony lens offerings caught up with Canon, they'd be in some serious trouble. But until then, I don't think we'll see landslide shifts in Canon's strategy unfortunately.

I LOVE my Canon system. I've considered going GH4 or a7s for video, but stills work continues to take up half or more of my gigs. Canon's cinema lineup still is very very good, just not the "best" (subjective of course). The DPAF is definitely a step in the right direction.

As far as this CR1 rumor vaguely, I'd be thrilled to see some Mark II's of the C100, C300, and C500 announced or discussed. Those cameras are still beasts that produce beautiful images. Again, I'm doubtful they are being met with the need to replace them, but development and release in maybe late 2015 would be very exciting

It seems like they'll need to step up the cinema line SUBSTANTIALLY in order to make some room for their EOS line to grow into 4K shooters packing as much of a punch as the GH4 and a7s. That was a bit of rant haha. Just my opinion of course... any thoughts or corrections to my understanding of this situation?

Canon's number one in the "professional" market because of their conservative approach that fits into well-established workflows. Weirdly, it allows them to charge more for less... like with the Alexa vs Red thing.

If you want an a7s or GH4, buy one! I like the ergonomics and image quality on the Canon, but Sony is making strides. Based on my time with the GH3 and F5, though, I'll take ease of use over 4k for now... But if you want image quality cheap, go for it! Canon will be sticking with well-worn standards and when they introduce 4k it will be when they've developed a codec that's easily ingestible for broadcast and it won't offer the same price/performance other cameras offered earlier.

It will still be my top pic by far, I'm guessing.

That's a great point about the value of a conservative approach. I don't have sales figures in front of me to analyze, nor am I seasoned expert of sales trends but obviously Canon has been doing something right for a long time.

But with the last "revolution" they led the pack with the 5DII. Now with this newest "revolution" it seems they're falling behind.

It's not quite enough to send me away from Canon, I just wish we had the best of both worlds

The video sales though of their DSLRs seem to be dropping ever since post 5D2.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Interesting rumor. Cinema Eos on Photokina? If it's true and we see a development announcment, then it's clearly designed to push down the ridiculously high interest/pre-orders of the just-announced Sony FS7. That FS7 just disrupts the market, it's clearly the end of the current C300/1Dc/C100 sales, therefore they will HAVE to respond very soon.

If anyone is not following the FS7 it:

-S35 sensor inside the F5/FS700 (therefore absolutely lovely image and very sensitive)
-Records 4K 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC internal like the 30K $ F55
-Records 180fps at 1080p and 60p at 4K
-Outputs 4K raw at 60fps and 2K raw at 240fps to external recorder
-It comes with everything ready to shoot, a nice EVF, shoulder pad, articulating grip, internal ND filters,
-It's the most well designed camera I've seen in years
-It's 8000$. Half the C300 and just 1.5K over the C100!

Whilst the C300 is a lovely camera, my favourite actually, after this announcement its days are over considering it only records at 8 Bit, no 4K at all, limited to 60p at 720, this is just a different generation.

Canon must now offer a 4K option, and a 10bit option, and of course super slow motion. Perhaps in a new model, perhaps in paid firmware updates for the current line-up (that would be a major hit to Sony)

 

[Policar]

Canon must now offer a 4K option, and a 10bit option, and of course super slow motion. Perhaps in a new model, perhaps in paid firmware updates for the current line-up (that would be a major hit to Sony)

Why? 99% of content is displayed at 1080p or less, 8 bits or fewer, and not in slow motion.

The FS7 looks AMAZING and I hope Canon answers it, but currently the conservative approach is the best for pros.

For hobbyists, get the FS7 already!!!

I do prefer the image on the Canon, but for all the aspiring colorists out there, you can milk the Sony... not that I like to god I hate the way saturated colors clip in SLOG2; oddly WideDR and not Canon Log is the best gamma for this on Canon... Red finally got a handle on it with the Dragon, but not fully. Arri does it right, but Sony has an SLOG3 variant that's close, hopefully that will make its way to the FS7.

Looks amazing, though. The F3 came really close, the F5 was a few steps back and a few others forward...

 

[expatinasia]

I would not be surprised if they stopped making the 1DC. It is a camera that never made much sense to me, though I know a few people here have one.

Believe it or not, there are so many people like you... its weird... you probably think a stills camera is for pictures only and a camcorder is for video only...

You shouldn't jump to such as assumptions.

I use my 1D X for both my still work and my video work, and am extremely pleased with it. It is an amazing camera for stills and produces amazing results for video.

Considering the price of the 1D C, I would always take two 1D Xs over just one 1D C. Every day of the week.

But that is just my opinion.

Oh... true... but there is so much more than just 4K on the 1DC.
There is various different formats including super 35mm and 1080/60p.
I guess, you have to assume that there are people out there that want internal 4K and FF.
Also, with the current price reduction @$9999, you can only get one 1DX and probably a 5DIII

I think you will be able to quite easily find two 1DXs for US$ 10,000. For that extra dollar I am sure you can persuade the shop, or at the very least borrow from someone!

I know what you mean about 4K, and I would like it, but for the videos (and stills) I do, I think getting two 1DXs is a much better idea. But that is just me, some people will prefer the 1DC and maybe two of them. Good luck with whatever you want, and whatever you use, but I would not be surprised if they stopped the 1DC series.

 

[Etienne]

Interesting rumor. Cinema Eos on Photokina? If it's true and we see a development announcment, then it's clearly designed to push down the ridiculously high interest/pre-orders of the just-announced Sony FS7. That FS7 just disrupts the market, it's clearly the end of the current C300/1Dc/C100 sales, therefore they will HAVE to respond very soon.

If anyone is not following the FS7 it:

-S35 sensor inside the F5/FS700 (therefore absolutely lovely image and very sensitive)
-Records 4K 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC internal like the 30K $ F55
-Records 180fps at 1080p and 60p at 4K
-Outputs 4K raw at 60fps and 2K raw at 240fps to external recorder
-It comes with everything ready to shoot, a nice EVF, shoulder pad, articulating grip, internal ND filters,
-It's the most well designed camera I've seen in years
-It's 8000$. Half the C300 and just 1.5K over the C100!

Whilst the C300 is a lovely camera, my favourite actually, after this announcement its days are over considering it only records at 8 Bit, no 4K at all, limited to 60p at 720, this is just a different generation.

Canon must now offer a 4K option, and a 10bit option, and of course super slow motion. Perhaps in a new model, perhaps in paid firmware updates for the current line-up (that would be a major hit to Sony)

I agree completely. This Sony FS7 looks really promising. I'm not usually brand loyal, but I have been holding out for Canon gear, and I'll be in trouble if Canon comes out with a compelling C100 mark II because I'll have to find some money fast.

On the other hand, the Sony PXW-X70 looks set to clobber the Canon XF200 (another camera I was eyeballing), and it's $1300 less. Now the Sony FS7 looks set to clobber not only the C100, but the C300.

Maybe the Sony combo is the way to go. FS7 + PXW-X70 is about the same price as the C100 + XF200 combo, but with far better looking specs. I'll be eager to see the reviews.

 

[that1guyy]

I hope Canon really starts to bleed money so maybe they can start making innovative products again.

 

[andrewflo]

Interesting rumor. Cinema Eos on Photokina? If it's true and we see a development announcment, then it's clearly designed to push down the ridiculously high interest/pre-orders of the just-announced Sony FS7. That FS7 just disrupts the market, it's clearly the end of the current C300/1Dc/C100 sales, therefore they will HAVE to respond very soon.

If anyone is not following the FS7 it:

-S35 sensor inside the F5/FS700 (therefore absolutely lovely image and very sensitive)
-Records 4K 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC internal like the 30K $ F55
-Records 180fps at 1080p and 60p at 4K
-Outputs 4K raw at 60fps and 2K raw at 240fps to external recorder
-It comes with everything ready to shoot, a nice EVF, shoulder pad, articulating grip, internal ND filters,
-It's the most well designed camera I've seen in years
-It's 8000$. Half the C300 and just 1.5K over the C100!

Whilst the C300 is a lovely camera, my favourite actually, after this announcement its days are over considering it only records at 8 Bit, no 4K at all, limited to 60p at 720, this is just a different generation.

Canon must now offer a 4K option, and a 10bit option, and of course super slow motion. Perhaps in a new model, perhaps in paid firmware updates for the current line-up (that would be a major hit to Sony)

Wow thanks for filling me in. Now I see what all the fuss is about with this camera