After a 50MP camera what is the next breakthrough?

[Floydian]

A real breakthrough would be, Zeiss glass/quality for a Canon price, that would be really something!
50 mpx is already way too much (yes i am going to buy the 5Ds-R), more focus on the glass with BIG improvements, that should be the focus instead of even more pixels. I don't care about video at all!
Oh, and lets not forget, clean (and i mean iso 100 clean) iso 3200 images!
Lets keep on dreaming ;-)

 

[Sunnystate]

[
Again, this is mind-boggingly narrow sighted, to a level that almost defies belief.

For you, those are the features that are important and you are looking for. To others, we want more megapixels over other things. I myself want more megapixels than dynamic range or focus. You know why? Because I print large a lot. I love minute details in my prints. I've never had an issue with dynamic range that I couldn't correct by bracketing (remember, I'm talking about myself, not others). I focus manually using live view, so improved auto focus is not important to me.

So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements. Just because this is not what you want, does not mean it is not a great product for many other people. I won't be complaining when Canon introduces a lower megapixel, high ISO capable, premiere auto focus camera. Why? Well, I'm smart enough to know that even though it won't benefit me, it will benefit others.

I take it that you don't understand that this is a forum designed for people to post their *personal* opinions on Canon related topics. That's all that is ever posted here -- a person's personal opinion/viewpoint.

The fact that you are surprised that someone posted what they would like (an opinion) questions whether you understand the purpose of these types of internet forums.

You have the ability to post *your* opinion on the topic, as do other members of this forum.

You don't have to agree, or even understand, someone else's opinion, just like we don't have to agree, or even understand, your opinion. But all opinions are welcome here.

No one, other than the Mods/owner of this site, has any authority to mandate what a forum member can and can't post.

"So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements" is really totally out of line.

Let's play nice and recognize that people have different opinions. An opinion you don't agree with is not necessarily "mind-boggingly narrow sighted, to a level that almost defies belief".

Would you like it if someone called your opinion that?

+1000

Wont even go there to analyze the SoullessPolack statements like this one:
"So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements" because they are screwed on so many levels, pathetic...

 

[bestimage]

is it really a "breakthrough", having same quality of sensor with just more pixels

 

[Machaon]

is it really a "breakthrough", having same quality of sensor with just more pixels

I would say yes, to manufacture it economically & actually get it to market at a profit. Otherwise it would've been done before now.

 

[tphillips63]

[
Again, this is mind-boggingly narrow sighted, to a level that almost defies belief.

For you, those are the features that are important and you are looking for. To others, we want more megapixels over other things. I myself want more megapixels than dynamic range or focus. You know why? Because I print large a lot. I love minute details in my prints. I've never had an issue with dynamic range that I couldn't correct by bracketing (remember, I'm talking about myself, not others). I focus manually using live view, so improved auto focus is not important to me.

So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements. Just because this is not what you want, does not mean it is not a great product for many other people. I won't be complaining when Canon introduces a lower megapixel, high ISO capable, premiere auto focus camera. Why? Well, I'm smart enough to know that even though it won't benefit me, it will benefit others.

I take it that you don't understand that this is a forum designed for people to post their *personal* opinions on Canon related topics. That's all that is ever posted here -- a person's personal opinion/viewpoint.

The fact that you are surprised that someone posted what they would like (an opinion) questions whether you understand the purpose of these types of internet forums.

You have the ability to post *your* opinion on the topic, as do other members of this forum.

You don't have to agree, or even understand, someone else's opinion, just like we don't have to agree, or even understand, your opinion. But all opinions are welcome here.

No one, other than the Mods/owner of this site, has any authority to mandate what a forum member can and can't post.

"So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements" is really totally out of line.

Let's play nice and recognize that people have different opinions. An opinion you don't agree with is not necessarily "mind-boggingly narrow sighted, to a level that almost defies belief".

Would you like it if someone called your opinion that?

+1000

Wont even go there to analyze the SoullessPolack statements like this one:
"So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements" because they are screwed on so many levels, pathetic...

Also agree, maybe the OP was trying to be clever but did not come off as such, more trolling but who knows.

 

[n1000]

Would be nice to see a 4K internal DSLR with flat profile for high DR, way better ergonomics comparing to a7s, dual-pixel like AF and a good low light picture with no aliasing and moire closed in max 4000$ 5D-like box. Something similar to a7s, focused more on 4K video. I'm sure that move would bring Canon closer to it's competition. Hope they will carry out something new in August (considering the recent 1DC price drop) as rumors say.

 

[NancyP]

Everything is going to be evolutionary until a new sensor technology (materials science) becomes available. The organic sensors are in the wings. There are super-sensitive sensors out there. Yaaah, 20 stops DR would be nice! Jrista, think about a megaISO for deep sky objects.

Back to the past ??? : a fast (real time, not one row scanning) 4 x 5 back. Something like Better Light, but with capture time of seconds rather than minutes.

 

[AvTvM]

next breakthrough?

Sony A7R II or A9 with

• 50+ MP sensor w/ 1.5 stops more DR at ISOs up to 800 and equal performance at ISO 1600+
• in a smaller, lighter mirrorless body
• with a 14+ Whr battery pack for 700+ shots
• at least as good AF-performance and fps as 5DS/R
• electronic global shutter, absolutely vibration-free operation
• at a significantly lower price ... maybe USD/€ 2,799

8)

 

[K]

Don't know what they next big thing will be - but what I'd like to see is....


Increased dynamic range, and reduced high-ISO noise.

Megapixels are great and all, but it could be argued that 20-24mp is more than enough for just about anything. Well, now with 36 and 50MP sensors - I think the product, stock, landscape, and studio photographers who want 35mm are set for a long time to come. In my view, megapixels is sort of reaching a practical limit here. Improvements can always be made on how much resolution a sensor can get out of a given number of megapixels. But it becomes harder and harder to argue that 60 or 70 megapixels will be an improvement over 50. Diminishing returns for practical use.

Megapixels are covered. It is dynamic range and low noise that has room for improvement. Now, not being ungrateful or anything - relative to recent years, we have pretty amazing ISO performance now. However, that is the best frontier for progress.

AutoFocus is great. Advancements in dual-pixel and sensor focus is next. What is keeping the DSLR alive? The fact that mirrorless is weaker on focus (and also viewfinder). When a sensor can focus as fast and accurately as a DSLR - there is only the issue of viewfinder left. They aren't far from that either.

Speed - you can get a 10fps 7D2 for $1,800...speed in DSLR's is good. Increases in FPS yields less and less benefit. Example, the advantage of 16fps over say 12fps isn't nearly as big as 10fps vs 5. FPS has reached a good place. Canon coming up with dampened mirrors to reduce vibration is a good area to continue progress.

Metering - now this could be improved. As highly advanced as they are today, they still aren't very smart. Meters or metering systems that can more accurately predict or find the subject and expose correctly is an area for big improvement.

Electronic shutter - this is an area that could be of big benefit.

 

[Stu_bert]

Affordable medium format A man can dream, can't he ;D?

If the Pentax 645Z proves successful sales wise, I think the line between a digital MF and 35mm DSLRs will continue to blur.

If it weighs the same as mirrorless, then I'm all for that

 

[Stu_bert]

I want to throw away my nd grads. They suck. So more dynamic range and iso 12.

Bad news Im afraid even at 20 stops of DR their will be situations where people will want to use ND grads, forget how many stops unless something drastically changes your need polarizing filters and to get creamy water extended exposures with filters (up to 20 stops is possible, the Big Stopper is 10 stops). Ive always seen filters as an artistic tool not a hindrance if they were so I doubt the worlds greatest Landscape Photographers would use them. Unless CMOS sensor design changes IRNDs for 2/4K video are also here to stay.

A solid ND filter like the big stopper is different than an ND grad. You could use that fine on a camera with unlimited dynamic range, as it has nothing to do with dynamic range. It has to do with allowing you to expose for longer (much longer) than you normally would...blurring motion.


A camera with 20 stops of DR would pretty much eliminate the need for graduated nd filters. That is a LOT of dynamic range. Remember, every stop DOUBLES the range of the previous. Going from 11 to 12 stops DOUBLES the range of light your camera is simultaneously sensitive to. Going from 12 to 13 stops DOUBLES the range again. Going from 13 to 14 stops DOUBLES it again. Double it six more times, and you finally reach 20 stops.


That is a truly massive amount of dynamic range. About the only thing you couldn't do with that much dynamic range would be imaging the sun setting behind a mountain well enough to pick out sunspots and flares, while simultaneously pulling out full detail in the deepest shadows of that mountain. There are a couple of celestial objects that could probably use that kind of dynamic range as well...say Orion Nebula or Andromeda Galaxy...both of those are extremely high dynamic range objects, with ultra bright cores and ultra faint outer regions.

What I've not married up Jon, and maybe you have, is I use light to focus the viewer in pictures. If there's too much range in the shot, is there not a chance that it impacts the effectiveness of the shot? Some increase in DR, good. Too much ie 20 stops? Not so sure.

 

[Stu_bert]

I would love to see a fully automated, real time afma that changes immediately with any focus point used. Couple that with improved AF speed and accuracy, that would be awesome.

sek

Agree. Mine, including the best posted so far are

- AFMA in camera. Real time, would be better.
- Global Shutter
- 8K video so you can extract single frames at good resolution
- SDK
- Better integration with other systems (smartphones & computers)
- Lytro style focusing
- Sensor cleaning which works (how about something which really protects the sensor when I'm changing lenses but disappears when I want to focus.
- Eye focus - cause the brain is still quicker than the finger
- Removable backs / sensors. I want a 5D Classic updated with amazing light capture capabilities, I want 100MP, I want B&W, I want Infra-red.
- Same quality - smaller and lighter please. MF body is fine, but not if it weighs even more than 35mm. Ditto lenses
- Different sensor tech no more bayer, no more moire, no aliasing...
- Even better zooms (faster & lighter, so I dont need to carry 5 lenses with me)
- EVF (as an add-on when I need it), and when it's better than my optical, again with programmable display
- ISO 3 all the way to ISO 100 (we already have the high end stuff)
- Exposure support for > 30 seconds. Bulb isa legacy from film days. Work it out, then take the shot. Then subtract for hot pixels. Rather than me sit there and calculate it, and time it
- Depth mode from the film-camera days. Here's 2 points (selected by eye), now work out the sharpest aperture based on the lens i have attached.
- Diffraction warning based on the lens I have attached. Just like exposure blinkies.
- Auto ETTR. If that gets me the best exposure for the sensor then do it automatically for me, without clipping.
- Minimum shake warning based on lens, sensor size and whether you have a tripod attached. Or auto-adjust ISO.
- Lenses sharp at the edges as well as at the centre. A lot of improvement made, but still a lot to cover.

Sure I can do lots of that already, but if the camera does it, then it makes it easier for newbies, leaves the technicalities for the camera makers, and lets photographers concentrate on the pictures....

 

[jrista]

What I've not married up Jon, and maybe you have, is I use light to focus the viewer in pictures. If there's too much range in the shot, is there not a chance that it impacts the effectiveness of the shot? Some increase in DR, good. Too much ie 20 stops? Not so sure.

I'm not sure what your getting at... I don't see how more dynamic range could ever be a problem. Certainly not for focusing. Hell, if you had 20 stops, and an in-camera stretching function, you could lift the shadows by orders of magnitude to check focus there as well. Or pull down ultra bright highlights and check focus there. How could that possibly be bad?

 

[Stu_bert]

What I've not married up Jon, and maybe you have, is I use light to focus the viewer in pictures. If there's too much range in the shot, is there not a chance that it impacts the effectiveness of the shot? Some increase in DR, good. Too much ie 20 stops? Not so sure.

I'm not sure what your getting at... I don't see how more dynamic range could ever be a problem. Certainly not for focusing. Hell, if you had 20 stops, and an in-camera stretching function, you could lift the shadows by orders of magnitude to check focus there as well. Or pull down ultra bright highlights and check focus there. How could that possibly be bad?

Focusing the viewer. The eye is naturally drawn to bright elements in a picture, so too much DR is not perhaps always a good thing. Having elements of the picture without too much detail means the eye ignores it and focuses on where you want them to....

 

[3kramd5]

Focusing the viewer. The eye is naturally drawn to bright elements in a picture, so too much DR is not perhaps always a good thing. Having elements of the picture without too much detail means the eye ignores it and focuses on where you want them to....

In most images we view, we only see 5-10 stops (depending on medium). If you have 20 in the bag, you can creatively choose which to display. Start with more to end with less, since the opposite isn't possible.

 

[jrista]

I would love to see a fully automated, real time afma that changes immediately with any focus point used. Couple that with improved AF speed and accuracy, that would be awesome.

sek

Yes, that's the sort of feature we should be looking forward to rather than an on-going megapixel race. Good one!

-pw

Again, this is mind-boggingly narrow sighted, to a level that almost defies belief.

For you, those are the features that are important and you are looking for. To others, we want more megapixels over other things. I myself want more megapixels than dynamic range or focus. You know why? Because I print large a lot. I love minute details in my prints. I've never had an issue with dynamic range that I couldn't correct by bracketing (remember, I'm talking about myself, not others). I focus manually using live view, so improved auto focus is not important to me.

So you need to absolutely stop making such blanket statements. Just because this is not what you want, does not mean it is not a great product for many other people. I won't be complaining when Canon introduces a lower megapixel, high ISO capable, premiere auto focus camera. Why? Well, I'm smart enough to know that even though it won't benefit me, it will benefit others.

Soulless, how about you stop suppressing and oppressing people's right to free speech and their own personal opinions? Hmm? This forum is truly crazy in the way it allows one particular group of members to suppress the opinions and statements of other groups and individuals.

I think the demands that people stop expressing their opinions or personal preferences or what they would like to see Canon do needs to stop. Seriously. They are OPINIONS!!

Soulless, you state that other people should stop asking Canon to stop focusing on megapixels, and focus more on the things they need. You berate them and dive right into demanding that Canon continue focusing on megapixels because it's what you personally need because you personally print large...then you make demands and insist that everyone else suppress their opinions. Hypocrite much?? Seriously. Your attempts to stop people from expressing their own opinions is simply a form of oppressing free speech. When the hell did that become acceptable? An entire country was born out of the desire to get out from underneath the thumb of oppressors such as yourself...civil wars were fought to beat back that thumb when it reached out to crush people once again. So why not knock off your own oppression and suppression of other people's opinions? People here are tired of it, from you and everyone else who does it.

 

[Mr_Canuck]

An EVF that looks as good as an optical finder. That could be the death of the slr. But we're still quite a ways away to my eye.

 

[reczey]

The next breakthrough will be a 5D X with only 12 MP, with large pixel size and excellent low light (high ISO) performance... With dual DIGIC 6 it could have 20 FPS and high (13EV) dynamic range...

 

[Stu_bert]

Focusing the viewer. The eye is naturally drawn to bright elements in a picture, so too much DR is not perhaps always a good thing. Having elements of the picture without too much detail means the eye ignores it and focuses on where you want them to....

In most images we view, we only see 5-10 stops (depending on medium). If you have 20 in the bag, you can creatively choose which to display. Start with more to end with less, since the opposite isn't possible.

Ah, if I can chose that at the time of taking the picture then great. And I get having the added flexibility. But doing that post-processing? Hmmm...

Surely the same is for video (as is more is not always better). And with video then reducing it post-processing is more complex ?

And finally, how many screens and printers have a DR of 20 stops?

 

[nvsravank]

What is already there (maybe not in canon cameras) that i need in a 5D III style Full Frame Body / Price
- AF point based exposure
- Wider/denser coverage for the AF points and all cross type (like the 7D Mark II). Wider and Denser can both be achieved through more AF points.
- Touch based focus point selection (ala smartphone) for Live view picture taking.
- AF screen that can work better for manual focus without live view. Maybe a zoom in the top assembly like is available in the angle converter - cant figure why nobody asks for that!
- Built in variable ND filter (It is in the higher end Cine style cameras today)
- use only central area for video and reduce read out time to allow for 240 or higher frequency slow motion video.
- Global electronic shutter
- Cleaner shadows.
- 70-200 F 2.8 IS Zoom with an inbuilt 1.4x converter that can be switched.
- Larger buffer
- Dual card slots of the same type (I hate this CF and SD combination and have stopped using it altogether)

What is not there but would like
- Exposure based on where the face is. The system tracks faces for AF but does not use it for exposure measurements
- 2 Stop reduction in noise levels so that i can get ISO 6400 at the same noise quality as ISO 1600.
- Automatic focus stacking using autofocus mechanism.
- Lytro style focus shifting capability using DSLR level mega pixels. (I find 4 MP too low for my taste)
- More T/S Lens which can be used in AF mode. Why i cant i pick two AF points and the camera drives the tilt angle and tilt amount to get it right. This is similar to the ADEP mode but with the drive to the T/S lens that is electronically controlled for tilt angle and tilt amount. Or identify two edges and drive the tilt to make those edges parallel automatically. I think shift can stay manual as is.