An Update on the 75+mp Camera in the Wild
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Dylan777 said:
I was trying to figure out how much of an effect that would make. If they have 3 "pixels" per photosite (one for each of rgb) then I don't know that they'll need any big lens jump.
That would bring the color resolution inline with the luminescent resolution
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Why does everyone think that the 75MP quoted implies that it's dual-pixel, and that number is twice what the actual filesize will be? Canon annouced the 70D as 20MP, and it has 20MP file outputs. I'm not sure why everyone keeps jumping to conclusions on it. Just because it sounds like a really big number? Because it would have a pixel density almost identical to the 10MP Nikon 1 series cameras (J1, V1, J2, S1) or be equivalent to a 28MP Canon APS-C camera?
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Would be interresting which lenses meet this resolution at an high image quality.
In Spring I visited an collegue, who works for an big optical glass producing company in Germany and I was able to look at some - non confidental - production processes.
He is specialized in the production of special glass for astronomical lenses. Maybe for some military products too...
He told me that it would only make sense, if they use more highend glass for highly priced lenses to minimize CA and other optical problems. But then one lens would cost 2-5 times the price of an existing lens.
This could be an crux too. If this is neccessary, the expensive lenses will get astronomically high priced and the normal enthusiast will be only able to buy mid-ranged lenses (where Canon will not put all its efforts in developing an extraordinary IQ in an mid ranged lens)
In Spring I visited an collegue, who works for an big optical glass producing company in Germany and I was able to look at some - non confidental - production processes.
He is specialized in the production of special glass for astronomical lenses. Maybe for some military products too...
He told me that it would only make sense, if they use more highend glass for highly priced lenses to minimize CA and other optical problems. But then one lens would cost 2-5 times the price of an existing lens.
This could be an crux too. If this is neccessary, the expensive lenses will get astronomically high priced and the normal enthusiast will be only able to buy mid-ranged lenses (where Canon will not put all its efforts in developing an extraordinary IQ in an mid ranged lens)
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KyleSTL said:
I think people are focusing on Canon calling it Dual Pixel. When it's really not 2 sub-pixels, but 2 separate photosites per pixel. At least, that's what I read of what it is. 2 photosites sitting in the same space under the same Bayer color filter which together output 1 actual pixel of output in the Bayer CFA data.
Unless what they are doing is each 'pixel' has some kind of micro-prism that the light that hits one 'pixel' onto 3 separate photo sites with their own and combined they take up the same space as 1 'normal' photosite and are used to get 1 pixel, then it'd be interesting to see if we really can call it 75MP or would it then be 25MP? A lot of ifs, so we'll just have really wait until we get better leaks or Canon telling us what is going on. Which they won't do until the announcement, and we might still have to wait around for the launch to really know what's going on.
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Canon isn't going to announce their big MP camera until the end of 2013. November at the latest. I would love a true upgrade from the 1DS Mark III for us fashion types. For me, there really isn't anything worthwhile in between my 5D MKII and MF. Really. If my cam had 16-bit A/D and a couple more FPS, I'd be totally fine.
If they can release this camera for around $12k and be a real competitor to MF, those competitors should be very concerned. Canon certainly has the muscle for it.
If they can release this camera for around $12k and be a real competitor to MF, those competitors should be very concerned. Canon certainly has the muscle for it.
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RGomezPhotos said:
The one bit that MF will always have over a 35mm frame is physical sensor size. It can give a different look & feel than 35mm, even in digital. Not saying a super high MP/DR/IQ sensor at in the 35mm format wouldn't be great, it would be. Just won't still always work for everybody that has chosen MF, although some may very well be able to switch.
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xps said:
I think Canon's latest generation of lenses, the ones that have been getting released over the last few years (most of the Mark II generation, with the exception of the ultra-wide angle stuff like the 16-35 II), is probably more than capable enough for 75mp worth of pixels in a bayer type sensor. I would say they are probably good enough until 35mm pushes into the hundred megapixel range or farther.
If we assume that at some point, FF and APS-C sensors will use the kind of small pixels we find in the most recent phone and P&S cams, which is around 1.2µm on a 65nm BI process, then we would be looking at 600mp FF (30,000x20,000 pixels exactly) and 230.75mp APS-C (18583x12417 pixels). It is easier to optimize a lens that is small, which is why we don't see severe optical aberrations in smartphone camera photos. There would certainly be some challenge in optimizing lenses to support 600 megapixels of full-frame goodness!
I agree that consumer-grade lenses will suffer, and won't necessarily be up to snuff to extract the most from a high resolution sensor. Keep in mind, though, final image output resolution is a convolution of the resolution of the lens and the resolution of the sensor. Increasing either will increase the resolution of the final output, so it is not like a poorer grade consumer lens will really drag IQ down...you just won't get as much out of the whole setup as if you had a high end L-series lens. The same also goes for say slapping one of today's top-end L-series lenses on a hypothetical 600mp FF camera...you would definitely see an improvement over slapping one of today's top-end L-series lenses on a 40, 50, or 75mp FF camera, even if it isn't ideally optimized for the higher resolution.
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KyleSTL said:
The term megapixel has become rather conflated with what should probably be termed megasensel, something that we can thank Sigma for in their marketing of their Foveon sensors. If prior rumors posted on CR are indeed true, it is more than likely that the 75mp FF camera is actually a 25 megapixel (in terms of output pixels) camera with 75 million photosites (million sensing elements, or megasensels), 25 million each of red, green, and blue photodiodes, one of each stacked vertically at each pixel location.
Theoretically, such a camera would have lower luminance resolution than a bayer, but similar or higher color resolution as a bayer. If Canon solves the problem of poor red performance deep in the silicon, such a sensor should have rather phenomenal color fidelity, minimal color moire and low luminance moire.
If the sensor is indeed a 75 megapixel bayer design, I totally agree...it will be a camera with 75 literal pixels. If it makes use of Canon's new dual pixel AF approach, then that would mean the total number of photodiodes would be 150 million. I guess I find the use of dual pixels unlikely unless Canon has indeed moved to a smaller fabrication process.
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A few wild guesses:
First, it's mirrorless with an EVF good enough for professionals;
Second, it has 80MP, but they're paired as in the 70D;
Third, when they say "high frame rate", they mean 24 to 30FPS;
Fourth, it's in the 1Dx body 'cause it's a power hog.
First, it's mirrorless with an EVF good enough for professionals;
Second, it has 80MP, but they're paired as in the 70D;
Third, when they say "high frame rate", they mean 24 to 30FPS;
Fourth, it's in the 1Dx body 'cause it's a power hog.
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With that 75 megapixel camera, burst mode, and a good lens you probably could get a picture of that swallow carrying a coconut... and with enough detail to determine the type of swallow and if you compare movement to a background, determine the airspeed.AprilForever said:neuroanatomist said:
African or European?
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Don Haines said:With that 75 megapixel camera, burst mode, and a good lens you probably could get a picture of that swallow carrying a coconut... and with enough detail to determine the type of swallow and if you compare movement to a background, determine the airspeed.AprilForever said:neuroanatomist said:
African or European?
Go away...or I shall taunt you a second time
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.75MP + high frame rate might lead to the conclusion that this camera uses a "three subsensors per final pixel" design - as others mentioned here:
Using 3 x 25 sensels for R, G and B avoids the calculation of the final image from the Bayer patterned raw data. I don't know how much processing power is needed for Bayer sensors but if you want to to it right it might be a lot.
Using clean RGB-data for photos or video means just storing numbers.
Reading out three layers of a sensor independently eases the readout process and AD conversion by simple parallelization ...
Just my 2ct
Using 3 x 25 sensels for R, G and B avoids the calculation of the final image from the Bayer patterned raw data. I don't know how much processing power is needed for Bayer sensors but if you want to to it right it might be a lot.
Using clean RGB-data for photos or video means just storing numbers.
Reading out three layers of a sensor independently eases the readout process and AD conversion by simple parallelization ...
Just my 2ct
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im gonna blow my brains out if this gets announced before 7DII. 7DII should be next, nothing else!!1
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