Are the latest "updates" intended to keep EF on life support?

[dak723]

Canon isn't doomed or any of that nonsense. But we might very well be looking at a world with EF on the way out, starting as soon as this fall.

It will depend on the market. If they come out with a new mount and it is a failure (in terms of sales) than you can bet that an EF mount FF will be available at some point. I would imagine that they have made prototypes of various alternatives. What people buy over the next decade will decide the fate of EF lenses. Since an adapter alternative is certainly in the works, even if new EF lenses are no longer made 10 years from now, the ones you have can still be used for your lifetime.

 

[Kit.]

Could this be Canon's attempt to keep the EF L series lenses selling through the transition to whatever the new mount that will be used for FF mirrorless? Keep EF relevant long enough (years more, yes) for the FF mirrorless market to be approaching maturity?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[dickgrafixstop]

there are several reasons to "update" lenses - 1, dramatic improvements in optical design (not likely since the big
whites are already nearly optimized), 2, minor improvements such as better coatings, weight reduction or cosmetic changes, 3, manufacturing cost reduction such as substituting plastic for metal, more automated internal lens components, plastic for glass replacements, easier assembly routines, 4, packaging changes or 5, additional functions (usb update, dock compatibility).
I don't remember Canon doing anything to prolong the life of FD lenses (even the short lived FD to EF adapter) when it embraced autofocus. If the new mirrorless requires a new mount and if Canon is truly committed to a mirrorless future, why would they bother to "protect" EF lenses when they can keep manufacturing and selling a more limited line of "legacy" cameras. It's taken them nearly 20 years to finally discontinue offering a film solution, why would full frame DSLR's be any different?

 

[Antono Refa]

I'm simply explaining why I believe strongly that something big is afoot. Canon has nothing to lose by telling us ahead of time EF will continue in the mirrorless lines.

Nobody gave any reason why the electronic interface would not be backward compatible with EF. There are some valid reasons to think Canon might change the flange distance & throat diameter. So there's no reason to think anything more than an extension tube would be needed to mount EF lenses on new FF MILC, same as on EOS-M.

So why would Canon need to tell that any more than governments need to announce the sun will rise tomorrow morning?

 

[YuengLinger]

I'm simply explaining why I believe strongly that something big is afoot. Canon has nothing to lose by telling us ahead of time EF will continue in the mirrorless lines.

Nobody gave any reason why the electronic interface would not be backward compatible with EF. There are some valid reasons to think Canon might change the flange distance & throat diameter. So there's no reason to think anything more than an extension tube would be needed to mount EF lenses on new FF MILC, same as on EOS-M.

So why would Canon need to tell that any more than governments need to announce the sun will rise tomorrow morning?

A basic adapter that impacts AF performance only slightly would probably put some customers at ease, but I think many would hesitate to keep buying EF lenses.

To continue heavily investing in EF lenses, especially Big Whites and tilt-shifts, doesn't seem quite as much a no brainer if EF is no longer the native mount for the new generation of FF mirrorless bodies. Of course a working pro or dedicated hobbyist will have some inertia because of their current investments, but at some point, the phasing out of EF is going to mean tough decisions about cashing out.

Of course Canon has an interest in continuing to sell off the EF inventory, and releasing some nominal updates at this time is one way to assure EF customers that EF is still relevant.

Now, if the new FF mirrorless has a native EF mount, I'm out on a limb that's going to break right off. But Canon has done little to signal they are sticking with EF.

 

[Antono Refa]

To continue heavily investing in EF lenses, especially Big Whites and tilt-shifts, doesn't seem quite as much a no brainer if EF is no longer the native mount for the new generation of FF mirrorless bodies.

There's one question nobody answered: why would Canon abandon EF? What limitations it has that would make Canon design a new mount for FF MILC? What features the new mount needs which EF doesn't have?

I'm not talking about flange distance & throat diameter, which can be bridged with an extension tube, as on EOS-M.

I'm not talking paranoid conspiracy theory about Canon switching mount because what if.

I'm talking about technical rational reasons, maybe an example like "FE does <feature, some implementation details> which there's no way to do with EF because <technical explanation of where limitation comes from>".

 

[Kit.]

But Canon has done little to signal

How would you expect Canon to signal to you, and why would they do it?

 

[jd7]

I'm simply explaining why I believe strongly that something big is afoot. Canon has nothing to lose by telling us ahead of time EF will continue in the mirrorless lines.

Nobody gave any reason why the electronic interface would not be backward compatible with EF. There are some valid reasons to think Canon might change the flange distance & throat diameter. So there's no reason to think anything more than an extension tube would be needed to mount EF lenses on new FF MILC, same as on EOS-M.

So why would Canon need to tell that any more than governments need to announce the sun will rise tomorrow morning?

I really struggle to see why Canon would introduce a new mount if the only benefit is a few lenses (ie normal and wide/normal primes) can be a bit smaller ... especially when the cost would be making people question whether to buy EF lenses (when obviously Canon's EF lens portfolio is a very substantial asset). Further, as I understand it, a shorter flange distance would make some lenses (UWA I think) harder to make and perhaps bigger and heavier than with EF mount.

I can understand Canon releasing new EF mount lenses with improvements such as faster communications when used with newer camera bodies (eg for new or improved AF functionality), but that is a very different thing from a completely new mount.

Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong but I just don't see anything in mirrorless which even remotely suggests it would be worth it for Canon to introduce a new mount and risk de-valuing its EF lens portfolio. I know Canon did something like that when the EF mount was introduced but in that case the new mount allowed a very significant new function (AF) and (as I understand it) it wasn't going to be possible to deliver that function effectively with the old mount. That is a far cry from being able to make a few lenses a bit smaller.

Is there anything significant - for mirrorless or DSLR - which Canon needs a new mount to deliver? If not, I really struggle to see why Canon would do it ... unless perhaps they really do have a very elegant solution which means they can introduce a new mount without de-valuing the EF lens portfolio at all.

 

[Ozarker]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

Let's see:
TS-E 50mm F2.8L Macro (2017) Major big deal
TS-E 90mm F2.8L Macro (2017) Major big deal
TS-E 135mm F4L Macro (2017) Major big deal
Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L (2017) Major big deal.
Canon EF 135 f/2L IS coming. Major big deal.
Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS coming. Major big deal.
Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L II released late 2015. Major big deal.
Canon 11-24 f/4L released February 2015. Major big deal.
There's a 24-105 in there somewhere.
That's just the "L" glass.

So you think issuing two updated versions of the 70-200 means EF is gonna die? Two updated great white this year will finally put EF on life support?

Canon didn't wake up just last year and decide to build mirrorless FF, change the mount, discontinue EF in a couple of years, and design new lenses for a thin mount on FF. So far we haven't seen a single rumor about a new lens designed for a Sony like monstrosity. The camera will be here this year. New camera with a new mount and no rumor of a new lens? Duh! EF will stay. Add a new contact or something? EF v.2 Even then... where's the new lens rumor? FF mirrorless will be DSLR size. "But Sony...!" B.S.

 

[Ozarker]

I know reports have been back a few months, but only recently have they reached this intensity. The fact that link is 9 months old does not seem to have hurt Canon sales, which brings us back to the question of whether there is any concern that Canon needs to address by announcing its plans. It seems not.

No need to reassure customers about something that isn't going to change. Right? It's only the people that think the new camera has to be a deck of cards hand killer (Aka Sony and most everyone else out there) that insist a new mount is a "must happen".

Their narrow view is, "If it is mirrorless FF it has to be tiny." Crazy.

If the Sony design were so great they'd have more than 10% market share. Canon will probably drive the last nail into Sony's coffin with this release... a mirrorless camera that is actually comfortable.

 

[Mikehit]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

As I see it the rumours have developed in this way:
Canon is developing FF mirrorless
I think mirrorless cameras have to be smaller to compete with Sony
Smaller flange distance means new mount
Are my EF lenses now redundant
Canon - you are being stupid and unfair for nor announcing which mount it will be and you have to tell me immediately

Yet though all this Canon have said precisely nothing. So whose fault is it for forum dwellers working themselves up into a frenzy? It can't possibly be theirs, can it....

 

[Ozarker]

No

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

Because the great minds of journalism have done so much to maintain their profession's integrity and credibility.


So you are saying a rumors forum is no place to ask questions or speculate?

I don't know why you'd ask a question of others if you insist you already have the answer. Just want to tell people they are wrong? Slow day at the rock quarry, Fred?

 

[Ozarker]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

As I see it the rumours have developed in this way:
Canon is developing FF mirrorless
I think mirrorless cameras have to be smaller to compete with Sony
Smaller flange distance means new mount
Are my EF lenses now redundant
Canon - you are being stupid and unfair for nor announcing which mount it will be and you have to tell me immediately

Yet though all this Canon have said precisely nothing. So whose fault is it for forum dwellers working themselves up into a frenzy? It can't possibly be theirs, can it....

Exactly. Canon probably doesn't even know these people are twisting in the wind and biting their nails. What is it? Maybe 10 people? I'm worried they'll set their hair on fire when they find out Canon isn't cloning a Sony. Maybe we should hire some grief counselors and keep them at the ready?

 

[Antono Refa]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

As I see it the rumours have developed in this way:
Canon is developing FF mirrorless
I think mirrorless cameras have to be smaller to compete with Sony
Smaller flange distance means new mount

And EOS-M isn't a big enough clue here?

Are my EF lenses now redundant

And EOS-M isn't a big enough clue here?

 

[AlanF]

Nikon is introducing interesting new lenses with their current mount as well so they are not giving signs that they are phasing it out.

 

[Ozarker]

Nikon is introducing interesting new lenses with their current mount as well so they are not giving signs that they are phasing it out.

Yeah, but you haven't read the tea leaves some of these people are smoking around here.

 

[Mikehit]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

As I see it the rumours have developed in this way:
Canon is developing FF mirrorless
I think mirrorless cameras have to be smaller to compete with Sony
Smaller flange distance means new mount

And EOS-M isn't a big enough clue here?

Are my EF lenses now redundant

And EOS-M isn't a big enough clue here?

No and No.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Then why new versions? To incorporate slight improvements? Or do you think more for marketing?

To cater for yammering forum-goers complaining about the lack of updates.

 

[Kit.]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

As I see it the rumours have developed in this way:
Canon is developing FF mirrorless
I think mirrorless cameras have to be smaller to compete with Sony
Smaller flange distance means new mount

And EOS-M isn't a big enough clue here?

A clue for what?

Did Nikon discontinue their half-century-old F-mount when they introduced 1-mount?

 

[Antono Refa]

I wish Canon would announce for one reason: To put all these mount arguments and EF is dead or dieing threads out of our misery one way or the other. This is really getting old.

As I see it the rumours have developed in this way:
Canon is developing FF mirrorless
I think mirrorless cameras have to be smaller to compete with Sony
Smaller flange distance means new mount

And EOS-M isn't a big enough clue here?

A clue for what?

That Canon has no intention of killing the EF mount.

Did Nikon discontinue their half-century-old F-mount when they introduced 1-mount?

Your point being....? That if Canon introduces a 2.7x crop factor MILC, it might use another mount in parallel to EF?