Atomos brings 8K 30p ProRes RAW to the Canon EOS R5 with the Ninja V+

TravelerNick

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 4, 2020
83
53
Atomos is expected to make an official announcement on May 6th.
It sounds to me like they already have the camera and the firmware they need.

They may have a beta firmware but that doesn't mean they're shipping the feature this week
 

filmmakerken

EOS R, EOS 10, FTb
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A couple things -- the press release is specific that the V+ will "record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW when connected to a Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera."
It DOES NOT say the signal will come from the HDMI port. While it is most likely that a firmware update will enable the HDMI port to send the data from the full frame 8K sensor there are other possibilities.
The R5 has a USB-C port. There's no indication that the hardware allows streaming through this port BUT the USB-C port is more than capable of the necessary data rates.
It's also possible that they'll introduce a CF Express Adapter cable allowing the 8K stream to output to the V+.
Again, it's most likely that a firmware update will enable the HDMI port to send the data to the V+.

My question is which is the better package -- the C70 (true 4K on a super 35 sensor) of the R5/V+ combo (pseudo 8K on a full frame sensor)?
 

TravelerNick

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 4, 2020
83
53
My question is which is the better package -- the C70 (true 4K on a super 35 sensor) of the R5/V+ combo (pseudo 8K on a full frame sensor)?

I got to ask why is it pseudo?

It's going to be HDMI of some sort because they've implied it'll eventually rollout to other cameras. Those other cameras may not support USB . Plus if they allow USB out why do you even need a recorder?
 

filmmakerken

EOS R, EOS 10, FTb
CR Pro
Apr 12, 2020
42
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www.cinefoundry.com
I got to ask why is it pseudo?

It's going to be HDMI of some sort because they've implied it'll eventually rollout to other cameras. Those other cameras may not support USB . Plus if they allow USB out why do you even need a recorder?
I was mistaken. I thought the R5 just did 8K UHD (7680 x 4320) but it is capable of DCI 8K after all.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
855
691
Plus if they allow USB out why do you even need a recorder?
Canon has no license to ProRes or ProRes RAW for the R5.
They could theoretically purchase and resell a license ProRes is an intensive codec and would probably overheat the R5 in five minutes.
When attached, the R5 is just pushing out a basic signal while the Ninja V is doing all of the encoding work,
Taking that load off might allow the R5 to record 8K indefinitely without overheating.
 
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TravelerNick

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 4, 2020
83
53
Canon has no license to ProRes or ProRes RAW for the R5.
They could theoretically purchase and resell a license ProRes is an intensive codec and would probably overheat the R5 in five minutes.
When attached, the R5 is just pushing out a basic signal while the Ninja V is doing all of the encoding work,
Taking that load off might allow the R5 to record 8K indefinitely without overheating.

I was thinking just sending Canon raw or raw lite out. With Prores the camera needs to take the raw data convert to a video signal .
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
855
691
I was thinking just sending Canon raw or raw lite out. With Prores the camera needs to take the raw data convert to a video signal .
Yeah, theoretically the R5 could record Canon RAW to an external USB SSD without overheating.
I am not so sure about RAW light.
That would be a game-changer and I think only Sigma does that.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
855
691
Atomos is having a virtual event tomorrow.
Hopefully, we get an R5 demo.
Here is the live-stream:
It sounds like V+ can only record 8K in RAW and only with the R5 right now which makes me doubt the processing power increase over the V.
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
855
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"The Ninja V+ will record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW from the Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera via a standard HDMI 2.0 connection. Atomos and Canon have worked together for the past 2 years to bring customers a world first for capturing stunning 8K RAW and HDR images with incredible clarity and detail in a compact and configurable system that is very affordable when compared with other 8K setups. The possibilities you have when shooting in 8K are a true game changer. Canon and Atomos have democratized 8K for the masses with no compromise in quality. Coming later in 2021 with an update from Canon."

So Canon was working together with Atomos before the R5 was even released.
If this had come out at the same time as the R5 then there would be no overheating controversy.
Maybe Atomos was late and screwed Canon.

Atomos stated that they are ready and waiting on Canon to release the firmware update for the R5.
 
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Besisika

How can you stand out, if you do like evrybdy else
Mar 25, 2014
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"The Ninja V+ will record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW from the Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera via a standard HDMI 2.0 connection. Atomos and Canon have worked together for the past 2 years to bring customers a world first for capturing stunning 8K RAW and HDR images with incredible clarity and detail in a compact and configurable system that is very affordable when compared with other 8K setups. The possibilities you have when shooting in 8K are a true game changer. Canon and Atomos have democratized 8K for the masses with no compromise in quality. Coming later in 2021 with an update from Canon."

So Canon was working together with Atomos before the R5 was even released.
If this had come out at the same time as the R5 then there would be no overheating controversy.
Maybe Atomos was late and screwed Canon.

Atomos stated that they are ready and waiting on Canon to release the firmware update for the R5.
Good news. Will just have to think three, or even four times about the price.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
855
691
Good news. Will just have to think three, or even four times about the price.
What bother's me is that the speaker made it sound like the only 8K supported will be RAW.
I take that to mean that it will not automatically support every 8K Camera that can stream 8K.
It seems expensive to use on just one camera but I will be fine if I use it on enough cameras to justify the expense.
Plus, if the Ninja V+ could generate 8K ProRes and H.265 then I can believe Atomos will add more features in the future.
If the processing power is already maxed out then the state it is in now is how it will stay.
 

filmmakerken

EOS R, EOS 10, FTb
CR Pro
Apr 12, 2020
42
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I asked the question C70 vs R5/V+. Here are some stats --
The C70 with the EF-EOS R 0.71x adapter and recording media runs about $6550.

The R5 with the Ninja V+ and the AtomX Sync and recording media runs about $6000. Add about $200 if you want the basic EF-RF adapter. (for reference, the Z CAM E2-F8 runs about $6000)

Both systems have SMPTE timecode — the C70 uses standard BNC cables, the V+/AtomX Sync uses the Timecode Systems wireless protocol.

The C70 has better audio capabilities, which is helpful on ENG/EFP shoots & smaller productions but larger shows use timecode to sync to external audio recording anyway.

The C70 has built in ND filters, commonly used on ENG/EFP shoots but film style productions tend to use a matte box and filters in front of the lens.

The C70 outputs 4K from a Super 35mm sensor while the R5 outputs 8K from a full frame (36mm X 24mm) sensor.

I like the idea of 8K from a full frame sensor. It gives my cinematographer and VFX people more resolution/data to work with.

It stands to reason that Canon will produce a cinema series camera with FF 8K in the near future and it will be compatible with the Ninja V+ via SDI. The question becomes “at what price?”

It'll be interesting to see hands on comparisons.
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
855
691
I asked the question C70 vs R5/V+. Here are some stats --
The C70 with the EF-EOS R 0.71x adapter and recording media runs about $6550.

The R5 with the Ninja V+ and the AtomX Sync and recording media runs about $6000. Add about $200 if you want the basic EF-RF adapter. (for reference, the Z CAM E2-F8 runs about $6000)

Both systems have SMPTE timecode — the C70 uses standard BNC cables, the V+/AtomX Sync uses the Timecode Systems wireless protocol.

The C70 has better audio capabilities, which is helpful on ENG/EFP shoots & smaller productions but larger shows use timecode to sync to external audio recording anyway.

The C70 has built in ND filters, commonly used on ENG/EFP shoots but film style productions tend to use a matte box and filters in front of the lens.

The C70 outputs 4K from a Super 35mm sensor while the R5 outputs 8K from a full frame (36mm X 24mm) sensor.

I like the idea of 8K from a full frame sensor. It gives my cinematographer and VFX people more resolution/data to work with.

It stands to reason that Canon will produce a cinema series camera with FF 8K in the near future and it will be compatible with the Ninja V+ via SDI. The question becomes “at what price?”

It'll be interesting to see hands on comparisons.
You should replace the Canon EF adapter with either the Breakthrough ND adapter or the Canon variable ND adapter + the price of the ND filters.
C70 would still win on the audio, battery life, and dynamic range while the R5 would win on resolution, sharpness, IBIS, and versatility.
 
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privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jan 29, 2011
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I find it interesting that Atomos had a live YouTube event with the FX6 and FX9 and no one seems to care.
Why? This place is Canon first, sharpness/pixel density/resolution/diffraction second, birding third.... Video with a Sony is a practical non event here.
 
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