Atomos brings 8K 30p ProRes RAW to the Canon EOS R5 with the Ninja V+

EOS 4 Life

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Sep 20, 2020
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I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped?
For Canon, that may be true but there is a lot more to it.
External RAW is often downsampled or even binned.
I was told that it was originally meant to be the RAW readout from the Atomos feed when sent a 4:4:4 signal but Panasonic wanted to push their metadata with the S1H.
Now sometimes it is a RAW sensor readout and other times it is not.
People who apparently never shoot RAW just say, "it shoots RAW" as if REDcode RAW. Cinema DNG, ARRI RAW, BRAW, Canon RAW, and ProRes RAW are anything alike.
ProRes RAW is a lot different for each camera model.
 

privatebydesign

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Guys this is exactly what Atomos have done before, say their hardware can support things the camera hardware is not capable of. Canon does not support 8k over the R5 HDMI port.

Nobody can get the HDMI port on an R5 to output 8k without firmware/hardware to the camera regardless of what Atomos say and there is zero reason to think Canon will do it because it would cost them a lot of money and they would earn nothing from doing it.
 

David - Sydney

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The R5, as far as I can tell, has HDMI 2.0 which supports 8k30 4:2:0 (as well as 4k120 4:2:0). While the manual says it's not supported, the HDMI hardware can. Assuming the rest of the hardware can actually support 8k over HDMI, I imagine there will be a firmware update to officially support this.
Although the HDMI2.1 standard was released in 2017, the first devices including HDMI2.1 hardware came to market in 2H2020 ie one NVidia graphics card and the PS5/XboxX consoles. HDMI2.1 cables were rare if available when the R5 was released. Safe to assume that the R5 doesn't have it. If it did then it would have been the first in the world and Canon would have probably highlighted it.
Unless Canon releases firmware that includes 4:2:0 instead of the current 4:2:2 then I am not sure how HDMI2.0 can be used. Note that 4:2:0 would be gratefully appreciated by the editors who don't have iPad Pro/M1 chipped PCs as 4:2:2 HW codecs aren't widely available.
 
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peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
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I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped? Not sure if the R5 can output a oversampled or pixel binned AND Raw image. This is why it already isn't available in camera. Unless the Atomos can do some of the processing? I don't know how that would work.

I doubt overheating will be an issue in a practical sense. There was a time when having the LCD screen on would cause overheating on the R5 even when outputting to a Ninja, but that's been fixed in a firmware update. 4K120 is the biggest culprit to overheating, so it might be technically possible to overheat with an external recorder, but I don't even know if this feature will be available. Currently the announcement says 4K120 is available with a couple Z-Cam models, and Sony cinema cameras utilizing the SDI Kit.
Jeah, I think its not likely that the camera can put out 4k RAW. But it appears possible to me, that the Atomos could transcode the 8k RAW to 4k RAW. Its not "real" RAW anyway. Prores RAW is already a processed image thats allready debayered if I am not mistaken. So another processing in the Atomos doesnt sound impossible for me :)

Right now 4k HQ overheats if you work for some hours with on and off recording, even if you only record externaly. The 4k HQ is noteable better than the 4k normal mode - so it may be worth the risk in a controlled enviroment if the client ist breathing down your neck.
I am not sure about the amount of processing going on in the camera - but I think putting the image online out over hdmi without processesing it from 8k to 4k would take less processing power and less heat. So maybe 8k RAW external would be less prone to overheat than 4k HQ externaly :) If so, the Atomos would be a very welcomed upgrade and I would sell my current atomos V =)
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
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453
on a spec sheet hdmi output maxed @4k but atomos wouldn't randomly write sth on their announcement paper with 8k raw capability with r5
The spec sheet only tells us what is currently working (software and hardware combined). Not what the hardware inside could actualy do with a firmware update. So the spec sheet is not worth a lot to judge the possibilities Its possible that canon comes along with a firmware update, changing the way the output signal works. =)
 

privatebydesign

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on a spec sheet hdmi output maxed @4k but atomos wouldn't randomly write sth on their announcement paper with 8k raw capability with r5
Yes they would and they have done so before! They did it when they originally released the V, they suggested all kinds of cameras could be used to record RAW ProRes but few cameras could actually output it.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
468
453
Yes they would and they have done so before! They did it when they originally released the V, they suggested all kinds of cameras could be used to record RAW ProRes but few cameras could actually output it.
Jeah, but in the press information the R5 is noted explicitly, so I think this is true and actualy coming =)

We are also delighted to announce that the Ninja V+ will be able to record 8Kp30 ProRes RAW when connected to a Canon EOS R5 mirrorless camera. Atomos and Canon are delighted to be bringing customers a world first for capturing stunning pristine 8K images with such an affordable, capable and compact camera system. This will be a true game changer in content creation. The ProRes RAW format is a perfect vehicle for an 8K workflow, from ease of use natively on the timeline within Final Cut Pro, to the flexibility of the image processing with full adjustment of WB and ISO control. Coupled with the proven Full Frame Canon EOS R5, this combination will propel content creators to a whole new level of production values. Coming later in 2021.
 
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peters

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Dec 25, 2017
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R5 continuous HDMI output is still limited to 30 min, correct?
Thats the first time I heard about this and in my experience that wasnt the case, IIRC.
The camera does not know if the external recorder is actualy recording or not, so the camera cant cut the connection after a certain time. :)
 

BakaBokeh

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May 16, 2020
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R5 continuous HDMI output is still limited to 30 min, correct?
No. It's virtually unlimited. The longest published test is like 4 hours. The longest I've gone is about 2 and a half hours with the Ninja V and only stopped because I was finished.
 

privatebydesign

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Jeah, but in the press information the R5 is noted explicitly, so I think this is true and actualy coming =)
Well that is a more detailed ‘promise’ than they made before. Maybe it’s true. Very interesting that Canon are supposed to be supporting this as it implies, to me, that there is no replacement/update for the R5 anytime soon to a new model, just backwards compatible firmware upgrades.

I’ll believe it when I see it working but well done Atomos and Canon!
 

SonicStudios

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Mar 4, 2020
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Atomos and Canon are delighted to be bringing customers a world first for capturing stunning pristine 8K images with such an affordable, capable and compact camera system. This will be a true game changer in content creation.

Atomos, Canon ... THANK YOU!!!
 

EOS 4 Life

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Sep 20, 2020
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Unless Canon releases firmware that includes 4:2:0 instead of the current 4:2:2
It will require new firmware anyway, but 10-bit 4:2:0 is kind of pointless to me.
8-bit is fine for delivery and 4:2:0 is not enough of a color gamut for editing.
8K 10-bit 4:2:0 is uncompressed and Canan already added IPB Light and Cinema RAW Light.
All that really matters is bandwidth but the less compression there is, the less strain and heat on the R5.
 
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SonicStudios

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It will require new firmware anyway, but 10-bit 4:2:0 is kind of pointless to me.
8-bit is fine for delivery and 4:2:0 is not enough of a color gamut for editing.
8K 10-bit 4:2:0 is uncompressed and Canan already added IPB Light and Cinema RAW Light.
All that really matters is bandwidth but the less compression there is, the less strain and heat on the R5.
I think both companies are going to introduce a stream on May 5 to discuss all of this.
 

TravelerNick

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 4, 2020
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Unless Canon releases firmware that includes 4:2:0 instead of the current 4:2:2 then I am not sure how HDMI2.0 can be used. Note that 4:2:0 would be gratefully appreciated by the editors who don't have iPad Pro/M1 chipped PCs as 4:2:2 HW codecs aren't widely available.

4.2.2 HEVC is supported on all the latest Intel chips using the IGPU. Laptop and desktop . TheSho HEVC/265 option announced is 4.2.2.

Shouldn't real raw be 4.4.4?