Atomos brings 8K 30p ProRes RAW to the Canon EOS R5 with the Ninja V+

TravelerNick

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 4, 2020
83
53
Well that is a more detailed ‘promise’ than they made before. Maybe it’s true. Very interesting that Canon are supposed to be supporting this as it implies, to me, that there is no replacement/update for the R5 anytime soon to a new model, just backwards compatible firmware upgrades.

I'm guessing this is a prep for the R3 which will ship with the same/better video.
 

Jethro

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 14, 2018
499
386
I'm guessing this is a prep for the R3 which will ship with the same/better video.
Yes, the R3 can't really be released with any lower spec. Am I the only one gobsmacked by what seems to be able to be done with firmware upgrades these days?
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,661
2,002
Hamburg, Germany
Yes, the R3 can't really be released with any lower spec. Am I the only one gobsmacked by what seems to be able to be done with firmware upgrades these days?
If you look back at what Magic Lantern did with cameras like the 50D, 5D3 and some Rebels, you will see that you could always do a lot with firmware. Of late, Canon has perhaps developed a bit more motivation to actually do it.
 
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koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,688
1,556
Guys this is exactly what Atomos have done before, say their hardware can support things the camera hardware is not capable of. Canon does not support 8k over the R5 HDMI port.

Nobody can get the HDMI port on an R5 to output 8k without firmware/hardware to the camera regardless of what Atomos say and there is zero reason to think Canon will do it because it would cost them a lot of money and they would earn nothing from doing it.
I suspect it's the difference between 8k regular video over HDMI, which would be YUV4xx data with all the CRT based blanking intervals around it and bandwidth allocated for high res audio and a custom compressed bitstream that the V+ can decode to 8k ProResRAW.

However Atomos envisions this working, they need Canon to release at best a firmware update and at worst offer a 'conversion service' where you send in your R5.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
449
434
Well that is a more detailed ‘promise’ than they made before. Maybe it’s true. Very interesting that Canon are supposed to be supporting this as it implies, to me, that there is no replacement/update for the R5 anytime soon to a new model, just backwards compatible firmware upgrades.

I’ll believe it when I see it working but well done Atomos and Canon!
My guess is, that they will keep their 4 years cycle in the professional series. I guess that the R5 II will come out in 3 years.
In my opinion 3 years would be better to keep up with the latest tech, but 4 years worked so far quite good for me (coming from an 5D II, to 5D III, to 5D IV and 1DX II to the R5 finaly).
IF they add external 8k RAW without overheat to the R5 - than this would make the camera easily up to date for 5-7 years. In combination with the great AF its a great little video camera thats just winning features =)
If overheat remains a problem, than the R3 will likely be my next camera =)
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
858
694
My guess is, that they will keep their 4 years cycle in the professional series.
It is kind of tough to compare the Canon 5 and 6 series to the A7 but Sony updates their A7 cameras whenever.
It is kind of tough to jump 4 years ahead of the competition and easy to fall a few years behind with a 4-year upgrade schedule.
On the other hand, Sony users are often frustrated not knowing when camera models will come out which is an argument in favor of a fixed schedule.
 
The R5, as far as I can tell, has HDMI 2.0 which supports 8k30 4:2:0 (as well as 4k120 4:2:0). While the manual says it's not supported, the HDMI hardware can. Assuming the rest of the hardware can actually support 8k over HDMI, I imagine there will be a firmware update to officially support this.
Yep correct. When the r5 came out last year there was speculation and my research concluded the same as you. 2.1 as was stated was too new in comparison to when most of the hardware for the r5 was concluded.

Given that Canon are doing it, then I’m confident the v+ will support it after the firmware update To the r5. Whether there’s more than just rerouting over hdmi (output at 4:2:0), it still should keep a lot of people happy.

I’d be very interested in knowing what chip is inside that justifies the near 3x increase over the v, and how much more the v+ will be able to handle.

Still, glad Canon has worked with them - albeit late to the party in comparison to Nikon, Sony, Panasonic but still, good that they’ve got a solution.
 
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dak3

I'm New Here
Oct 9, 2018
20
33
I am so happy that I did not buy the Ninja V this week when I initially considered doing so! I bought a Shinobi monitor instead in order to get its universal features on any camera. It's hard keeping up with all the technological camera changes every 6 months. My pocket-book is very happy at the moment, and I will only upgrade when all this sudden industry shift craze settles down for at least a year and several more options become available. What is Atomos going to do in 1 year from now? Release the Ninja V++ / VI when they decide that they will provide 8K 24/30/60 fps? I don't have $1,800 to spend every year. Heck, my Atomos Shogun Inferno is now obsolete according to future support; though I still use it and love it for my work.
 

jam05

R5, C70
Mar 12, 2019
462
280
I would love 4K raw from the R5, but wouldn't it mean it'd be cropped? Not sure if the R5 can output a oversampled or pixel binned AND Raw image. This is why it already isn't available in camera. Unless the Atomos can do some of the processing? I don't know how that would work.

I doubt overheating will be an issue in a practical sense. There was a time when having the LCD screen on would cause overheating on the R5 even when outputting to a Ninja, but that's been fixed in a firmware update. 4K120 is the biggest culprit to overheating, so it might be technically possible to overheat with an external recorder, but I don't even know if this feature will be available. Currently the announcement says 4K120 is available with a couple Z-Cam models, and Sony cinema cameras utilizing the SDI Kit.
Yeah, don't overthink it. The announcement was made in coordination with Canon, but by Atomos. Expect to see another announcement from Canon with details of their own, from their own marketing team.
 

jam05

R5, C70
Mar 12, 2019
462
280
Yeah, don't overthink it. The announcement was made in coordination with Canon, but by Atomos. Expect to see another announcement from Canon with details of their own, from their own marketing team. Most likely with other added goodies.
 

Kit Chan

I'm New Here
Sep 7, 2020
11
1
Ninja Stream sounds like a good tool for vloggers/indie journalists.

Just tether it to a phone and live broadcast to your viewers from anywhere with cellular coverage.
 

Bdbtoys

R5
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2020
373
275
Maybe be the too be released R3 will output 8K RAW over HDMI and the Atoms Ninja 5+ will work with the R3? Could the R5 be a typo?
It's hard to say. I don't think any of us know the actual HDMI spec used. If the spec is 2.0 we could get it if limited to 4:2:0, if 2.1 we could get it. Both would require a firmware update.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,292
5,433
Canon has not released R3 video specs.
No way they would let Atomos.
They wouldn't need to release the full specs to enable Atomos to know what the HDMI specs are. But companies often work in conjunction with third parties to facilitate accessories to be available on release.

I know some L-Plate manufacturers used to get dummy bodies well before release but now they get CAD files so they have to 3D print the mockups themselves. Same with underwater housing manufacturers.
 

SonicStudios

I'm New Here
CR Pro
Mar 4, 2020
20
12
Personally, I find the R5 and A1 TINY monitors not conducive for filming. Now we might be on the precipice of an unlimited 8K filming experience with the R5, viewing on a Ninja Cinco +, heck ya, I'm all in !!!

Hopefully, on RCinco De Mayo, Canon and Atomos will stream the details (y)
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
858
694
They wouldn't need to release the full specs to enable Atomos to know what the HDMI specs are. But companies often work in conjunction with third parties to facilitate accessories to be available on release.

I know some L-Plate manufacturers used to get dummy bodies well before release but now they get CAD files so they have to 3D print the mockups themselves. Same with underwater housing manufacturers.
Atomos is expected to make an official announcement on May 6th.
It sounds to me like they already have the camera and the firmware they need.
 
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Refraction

EOS M50
CR Pro
Sep 5, 2020
28
25
So does a Ninja V owner who pays the 99usd to upgrade basically get the same as the Ninja V+ which is much more expensive?