Canon 5D III and Zeiss lenses: focusing screen?

[niels123]

Since a couple of days I own the Carl Zeiss Apo Sonnar 135mm f/2 ;D

Wonderful lens, but focusing at f/2.0 is extremely difficult, even when using the green focus confirmation dot in the bottom of the viewfinder. Focusing using live view is cumbersome and quite slow.

1) Is it more accurate / easier to focus using a focusing screen?
2) Which type of focusing screen would you recommend?
3) What is the best place to order this? Officially, it is not supported by Canon to change the screen for the 5D III (only for the 5D II), but there is screens available including installation instructions, for instance here: Focusing Screen with installation instructions here: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Focusing Screen Installation Instruction

Experciences, suggestions, help, ideas and thougths are greatly appreciated! ;D

Niels

 

[Mitch.Conner]

Since a couple of days I own the Carl Zeiss Apo Sonnar 135mm f/2 ;D

Wonderful lens, but focusing at f/2.0 is extremely difficult, even when using the green focus confirmation dot in the bottom of the viewfinder. Focusing using live view is cumbersome and quite slow.

1) Is it more accurate / easier to focus using a focusing screen?
2) Which type of focusing screen would you recommend?
3) What is the best place to order this? Officially, it is not supported by Canon to change the screen for the 5D III (only for the 5D II), but there is screens available including installation instructions, for instance here: Focusing Screen with installation instructions here: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Focusing Screen Installation Instruction

Experciences, suggestions, help, ideas and thougths are greatly appreciated! ;D

Niels

From what I've seen you can install the eg-S super precision matte screen for the 5DII on the 5DIII. You have to remove two screws and do a bit of tinkering, but supposedly it works. I haven't tried it myself though. I'm fairly sure it voids your warranty (in case that matters to you). I am under the impression that it works well with manual focus lenses.

 

[Eldar]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

 

[mackguyver]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

Was that your ultimate solution? I still can't believe how bad the Ec-S is in the 1D X for lenses slower than f/2. I didn't really find it that much better for the f/1.2 & 1.4 lenses, either, but I'm sure it helps with the Zeiss glass. My Ec-S has been sitting on my shelf since my failed experiment - I guess I need to sell it.

 

[Eldar]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

Was that your ultimate solution? I still can't believe how bad the Ec-S is in the 1D X for lenses slower than f/2. I didn't really find it that much better for the f/1.2 & 1.4 lenses, either, but I'm sure it helps with the Zeiss glass. My Ec-S has been sitting on my shelf since my failed experiment - I guess I need to sell it.

The Ec-S works very well up f2.8 in my view and my ability to focus the faster lenses is a lot better with that screen. At f4 it becomes rather useless though.

 

[niels123]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

Was that your ultimate solution? I still can't believe how bad the Ec-S is in the 1D X for lenses slower than f/2. I didn't really find it that much better for the f/1.2 & 1.4 lenses, either, but I'm sure it helps with the Zeiss glass. My Ec-S has been sitting on my shelf since my failed experiment - I guess I need to sell it.

The Ec-S works very well up f2.8 in my view and my ability to focus the faster lenses is a lot better with that screen. At f4 it becomes rather useless though.

All my lenses, except the 24-105 f/4L, are f/2.8 or faster. If you sometimes use this 24-105 and only with autofocus in situations where it's not exceptionally dark, but also not too light (e.g. 1/60s; f/4; 1600 iso), is this usable or would you then not replace the focusing screen of my 5D III? It is my only fullframe SLR and I use it for paid assignments (e.g. weddings), so it needs to do the job when I need it (also in dim situations, although I usually rely on my sigma 50 art f/1.4 with autofocus then).

 

[Eldar]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

Was that your ultimate solution? I still can't believe how bad the Ec-S is in the 1D X for lenses slower than f/2. I didn't really find it that much better for the f/1.2 & 1.4 lenses, either, but I'm sure it helps with the Zeiss glass. My Ec-S has been sitting on my shelf since my failed experiment - I guess I need to sell it.

The Ec-S works very well up f2.8 in my view and my ability to focus the faster lenses is a lot better with that screen. At f4 it becomes rather useless though.

All my lenses, except the 24-105 f/4L, are f/2.8 or faster. If you sometimes use this 24-105 and only with autofocus in situations where it's not exceptionally dark, but also not too light (e.g. 1/60s; f/4; 1600 iso), is this usable or would you then not replace the focusing screen of my 5D III? It is my only fullframe SLR and I use it for paid assignments (e.g. weddings), so it needs to do the job when I need it (also in dim situations, although I usually rely on my sigma 50 art f/1.4 with autofocus then).

At f4 the viewer becomes rather dark. AF is still working OK, but you will not line it. Be asare though that changing screens, even on the 5DIII is a rather simple job, once you've done it. So I think you should try it. The cost is marginal.

 

[niels123]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

Was that your ultimate solution? I still can't believe how bad the Ec-S is in the 1D X for lenses slower than f/2. I didn't really find it that much better for the f/1.2 & 1.4 lenses, either, but I'm sure it helps with the Zeiss glass. My Ec-S has been sitting on my shelf since my failed experiment - I guess I need to sell it.

The Ec-S works very well up f2.8 in my view and my ability to focus the faster lenses is a lot better with that screen. At f4 it becomes rather useless though.

All my lenses, except the 24-105 f/4L, are f/2.8 or faster. If you sometimes use this 24-105 and only with autofocus in situations where it's not exceptionally dark, but also not too light (e.g. 1/60s; f/4; 1600 iso), is this usable or would you then not replace the focusing screen of my 5D III? It is my only fullframe SLR and I use it for paid assignments (e.g. weddings), so it needs to do the job when I need it (also in dim situations, although I usually rely on my sigma 50 art f/1.4 with autofocus then).

At f4 the viewer becomes rather dark. AF is still working OK, but you will not line it. Be asare though that changing screens, even on the 5DIII is a rather simple job, once you've done it. So I think you should try it. The cost is marginal.

I heard that changing the focus screen on the 5D III affects the light metering. In the 5D II is a custom functions setting to let the camera know that you have the custom screen and then the camera will compensate for that. Obviously, this is not possible in the 5D III. How big is the difference (in stops)?

 

[Eldar]

I used the Eg-S on the 5DIII. It is not a mechanical fit. It worked well for a while, but not over time. I ordered a custom S-screen from focusingscreens.com (3x the Canon price). It is not as good as a Ec-S on the 1DX, but a lot better than the standard screen.

Was that your ultimate solution? I still can't believe how bad the Ec-S is in the 1D X for lenses slower than f/2. I didn't really find it that much better for the f/1.2 & 1.4 lenses, either, but I'm sure it helps with the Zeiss glass. My Ec-S has been sitting on my shelf since my failed experiment - I guess I need to sell it.

The Ec-S works very well up f2.8 in my view and my ability to focus the faster lenses is a lot better with that screen. At f4 it becomes rather useless though.

All my lenses, except the 24-105 f/4L, are f/2.8 or faster. If you sometimes use this 24-105 and only with autofocus in situations where it's not exceptionally dark, but also not too light (e.g. 1/60s; f/4; 1600 iso), is this usable or would you then not replace the focusing screen of my 5D III? It is my only fullframe SLR and I use it for paid assignments (e.g. weddings), so it needs to do the job when I need it (also in dim situations, although I usually rely on my sigma 50 art f/1.4 with autofocus then).

At f4 the viewer becomes rather dark. AF is still working OK, but you will not line it. Be asare though that changing screens, even on the 5DIII is a rather simple job, once you've done it. So I think you should try it. The cost is marginal.

I heard that changing the focus screen on the 5D III affects the light metering. In the 5D II is a custom functions setting to let the camera know that you have the custom screen and then the camera will compensate for that. Obviously, this is not possible in the 5D III. How big is the difference (in stops)?

I don´t remember with the Eg-S screen, but with the focusingscreens.com version (I believe they are pretty much the same), I have an average of about 2/3 of a stop. With the 5DIII that means that you cannot use manual mode with auto ISO, since you do not have the required exposure compensation mode available..

 

[niels123]

How reliable is focusingscreen.com and how long are delivery times?

Just wondering: would magic lantern solve the exposure compensation issue to allow the use of M and auto iso?
Maybe silly, but if you're shooting in situations were the light is constantly changing and you want to keep using M and auto ISO, the other option is to just ignore the needed exposure correction and later fix that in postprocessing? Fixing a single stop in RAW is not too much, especially if the iso is not 10k.

Other option: if you choose Tv, put shutter speed fixed (e.g. 1/60) and iso to auto in dim-lid situations, what aperture would the 5D III choose? Does it shoot wide open then or is it just increasing ISO too much to shoot at f/4 with f/2 glas? Because in Tv with auto ISO, I think it should be possible to compensate?

 

[Eldar]

How reliable is focusingscreen.com and how long are delivery times?

Just wondering: would magic lantern solve the exposure compensation issue to allow the use of M and auto iso?
Maybe silly, but if you're shooting in situations were the light is constantly changing and you want to keep using M and auto ISO, the other option is to just ignore the needed exposure correction and later fix that in postprocessing? Fixing a single stop in RAW is not too much, especially if the iso is not 10k.

Other option: if you choose Tv, put shutter speed fixed (e.g. 1/60) and iso to auto in dim-lid situations, what aperture would the 5D III choose? Does it shoot wide open then or is it just increasing ISO too much to shoot at f/4 with f/2 glas? Because in Tv with auto ISO, I think it should be possible to compensate?

The screen from focusingscreens.com is made on order and was delivered at my door about 3 weeks after I ordered it. The box looks like a standard Canon box. All papers etc. in proper order.

The Tv alternative you describe should work. I have no experience with ML, so I do not know if they have a solution for the manual mode.

 

[niels123]

How reliable is focusingscreen.com and how long are delivery times?

Just wondering: would magic lantern solve the exposure compensation issue to allow the use of M and auto iso?
Maybe silly, but if you're shooting in situations were the light is constantly changing and you want to keep using M and auto ISO, the other option is to just ignore the needed exposure correction and later fix that in postprocessing? Fixing a single stop in RAW is not too much, especially if the iso is not 10k.

Other option: if you choose Tv, put shutter speed fixed (e.g. 1/60) and iso to auto in dim-lid situations, what aperture would the 5D III choose? Does it shoot wide open then or is it just increasing ISO too much to shoot at f/4 with f/2 glas? Because in Tv with auto ISO, I think it should be possible to compensate?

The screen from focusingscreens.com is made on order and was delivered at my door about 3 weeks after I ordered it. The box looks like a standard Canon box. All papers etc. in proper order.

The Tv alternative you describe should work. I have no experience with ML, so I do not know if they have a solution for the manual mode.

Sorry for al these questions, but I am still quite confused about all the stuff. There are four types available for the 5D III:

Ec-A
Ec-B
Ec-L
S TYPE

I am looking into which type I shall order from focusingscreen.com

On youtube I found a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGAjCCk9W8
It looks like it really works like charm, but the comment is "You will lose the focus dots tough". Does that really mean that you loose all the 61 AF points in the autofocus system when you have attached a canon autofocus lens?

I also have difficulty finding which of these four types work best in practice and how they actually compare to each other. Do all of these screens affect the light metering and darken the viewfinder (on f/4 lenses)? Also, the S TYPE is out of stock at the moment....

Niels

 

[Eldar]

For precision focusing, you want the S-screen. Autofocus will work like before, but the viewer will be darker for slower lenses. The absolute max in my view is f4, whereas 2.8 works well.

 

[niels123]

For precision focusing, you want the S-screen. Autofocus will work like before, but the viewer will be darker for slower lenses. The absolute max in my view is f4, whereas 2.8 works well.

That sounds pretty good ;D
I have only one lens that is f/4 (none which are even slower) and even this 24-105 f/4L is hardly used. Most of the time it is collecting dust because I like my primes (even the 85 f/1.8) so much better

 

[tphillips63]

I bought one for my 5D Mk III from focusingscreen.com and he sends you a complete kit, finger cots, screen in canon box, printed instructions, he is very good.

I just was not happy with the results overall and went back to the standard screen.

 

[racebit]

Manual focusing should have input from PDAF or DPAF, with the camera telling the user which way is focus.
But Canon (and others I guess, not sure), deliberately chooses not to do that.
As most my lenses are manual or telescopes, that is my big frustration with Canon DSLRs.
Maybe if people complained more, and verbalizing that is inappropriate behavior to any company who verbalizes so many garbage about their altruistic goals, as all do.

 

[niels123]

I bought one for my 5D Mk III from focusingscreen.com and he sends you a complete kit, finger cots, screen in canon box, printed instructions, he is very good.

I just was not happy with the results overall and went back to the standard screen.

Do you have any MF-only lenses, and if yes, how do you focus then?

I spoke a guy from Canon support and he suggested that people sometimes use a loop (e.g. the Hoodloupe with or without hoodcrane) and live view to focus.

 

[noisejammer]

I'll post a dissenting opinion.

I've purchased just about every screen available for the 5D2. I have tried precision matte screens, split focus, the original, microprism and a few others. The prices varied from $15 to $200.

The short version is that none allowed my to achieve critical focus with my Zeiss ZE lenses.

I then tried a Zacuto Z-finder Pro loupe and mounted it to the lcd on a clip-on frame (pn Z-FRM or Z-FRM32 depending on your camera.) I can nail critical focus almost every time. Yes, it's a little unwieldy but the camera is pressed against your eye and it's stable. The second issue is that this goes through batteries, so you need a few in your pocket. It does however work.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'll post a dissenting opinion.

I've purchased just about every screen available for the 5D2. I have tried precision matte screens, split focus, the original, microprism and a few others. The prices varied from $15 to $200.

The short version is that none allowed my to achieve critical focus with my Zeiss ZE lenses.

I then tried a Zacuto Z-finder Pro loupe and mounted it to the lcd on a clip-on frame (pn Z-FRM or Z-FRM32 depending on your camera.) I can nail critical focus almost every time. Yes, it's a little unwieldy but the camera is pressed against your eye and it's stable. The second issue is that this goes through batteries, so you need a few in your pocket. It does however work.

If you replace a focus screen, and you need very accurate AF you must use shims to adjust the position of the focus screen. Canon sells the shims you will need for your camera. There is a procedure in the service manual, or you can use trial and error. Some of the focus screen manufacturers include a shim, but it is no guarantee of accurate manual focusing with your camera, each camera can have a different variation.

Focus screen manufacturers usually purchase 1 series or even focus screens from MF cameras, and mill them to the dimensions to fit. This results in inaccurate exposures, so you need to add exposure compensation in many cases.

 

[tphillips63]

I'll post a dissenting opinion.

I've purchased just about every screen available for the 5D2. I have tried precision matte screens, split focus, the original, microprism and a few others. The prices varied from $15 to $200.

The short version is that none allowed my to achieve critical focus with my Zeiss ZE lenses.

I then tried a Zacuto Z-finder Pro loupe and mounted it to the lcd on a clip-on frame (pn Z-FRM or Z-FRM32 depending on your camera.) I can nail critical focus almost every time. Yes, it's a little unwieldy but the camera is pressed against your eye and it's stable. The second issue is that this goes through batteries, so you need a few in your pocket. It does however work.

Yes, the 24mm TS-E, which was the main reason. In the end I felt the focusing in auto was off a little and the metering as well. I did end up getting the Hoodman 3.2 for live view focusing and also it is great for easier viewing of images. For me this was a lot better than the screen.