Canon 5D MarkIII & 1Dx - 1080p/60fps???

[april]

It's in Canon's philosophy to cripple functionality as a basis for product differentiation. Many idosyncrasies like this can be explained off with this Philosophy.

The rest is just Dogmatic behaviour, like why not support higher than Class-10 speeds in SD or why not have USB 3 in a 2012 model...

Sometimes we just need to accept (and love) what we have.

we are the customers in here we should be the one mandating them what they need to do to please us and not them limiting us to what we deserve.

 

[Musouka]

As the buyer has a bargaining power so does the seller. If the seller can get away with not including features and still manage to sell truckloads, why bother? I'm not saying I like it but this is the reality. They are businesses and want the best bang for their buck (just like we do) and hence the price-feature conflict.

All sellers want to maximize profits by doing the least they could get away with. Just look at the iPhone 4S and the new iPad. They are incremental updates but still managed to sell very well. If the seller is happy with their market position and think that they are going to maintain it, they will do less. With a few exceptions, they will only become more aggressive when they are trying to increase/regain their market share so they will see this as a long-term investment. Unfortunately, being at the top tends to instill a sense of pride and overconfidence.

 

[Archangel72]

I think that it's very unfortunate for piece of hardware that cost aprox. 3500$ for 5DMarkIII, and 6800$ for Canon flagship camera 1Dx, that those new models can't produce 1080/60p, while Panasonic HDC-TM900 as mentioned before here in this post by user "stevenrrmanir" can provide that feature for $800.

Now, why Canon thinks that 1080/60p is dedicated only to very expensive cams, while Panasonic and Sony can include that feature in their cams, even at low entry models.
It's old news for them, but it's not even a fresh news for Canon???
Sorry videographers, amateurs and professionals, Canon thinks that you don't need to have feature in your newest Canon DSLR for"only" 6.800,00$, no, no... it's very, very expensive feature, you know? :
Do we have to wait another 3-4 years for Canon SLRs that will get that feature, while other manufacturers will probably offer 4k, or 8k at 120fps?
1080p/60 is really that irrelevant for all Canon users?
Really?
If so, than why did Canon started that game of implementation video features into DSLR still cams in the first place?
They started the "game", but now they don't have enough "steam" to keep up with Panasonic and Sony?
I really, really hope, that Canon users will find the "light at the end of the tunnel" with release of future firmware/software update...
C'mon Canon, you can do it, just close your eyes and JUMP !!!
Do it already... :

Don't get me wrong here, I now it sounds harsh, but it's for users sake, old, and new ones (myself included) that will walk "that way" choosing Canon as their "weapon of mass destruction" in the world of stills and video.

 

[Musouka]

Canon's flagship camcorder (the $1350 VIXIA HF G10) can't produce 1080P60 either. It seems the company thinks that should be reserved for the very high end. That's why I bought a TM900 for $799 last October for my trip to Japan. The HF G10 is the king of low-light in the camcorder category but the the Panasonic quality was more than adequate for my needs. I spent the difference to partially fund the kickass Tokina 11-16 for my 7D ;D

That said, the TM900 won't give you the DOF of a 35mm sensor like the 5D2 or Mark III, you can't change the lens and because of microphone mount location (on the side) and the wide-angle lens, the Rode Dead Cat will be visible in the video. I wish they had the the cold shoe in the same location as the HS900.

 

[simonxu11]

Canon put the metering system from T3/1100d into 5D3, what do expect from them?? It's Canon!!
And loyal Canon users always respond "there's nothing wrong with it, it just works" or "if you want such feature buy the 1D series", that's what Canon love to hear!

 

[JurijTurnsek]

canon is really lagging behind in the 1080p60 game... even their professional line of camcorders hasn't got it, what gives?

 

[psolberg]

I'd settle for decent 30p that is closer to true 1080p than what the 5DIII delivers than 60fps of mush.

 

[preppyak]

I think that it's very unfortunate for piece of hardware that cost aprox. 3500$ for 5DMarkIII, and 6800$ for Canon flagship camera 1Dx, that those new models can't produce 1080/60p, while Panasonic HDC-TM900 as mentioned before here in this post by user "stevenrrmanir" can provide that feature for $800

Can your TM900 take stills at 5000x3000? Can it take them at 6fps or 10fps? Can it produce a depth of field even equivalent to f/3.5? Can it handle shooting in the near dark and produce a relatively clean image? Can it's footage be used immediately out of the camera? Does it allow me to customize color profiles that make it easier to grade in post?

I own one, I know the answer is no to all of those questions. It's not an apples to apples comparison. More like apples to concrete. Canon already has some minor issues with camera's overheating on longer shots, 1080/60 would probably magnify that. Not to mention it could cause recording to drop if the buffer rate isn't up to par. So, if they can't implement in cleanly, they wouldn't do it at all. Check the reviews for Sony's DSLR's (well, DSLT's), they all have big issues with overheating when recording video due to the 1080/60. The A55 was notorious for that. 1080/60 doesn't do you any good if you can't even get the shot

It's why the new Canon cine cameras have completely different internals. To be able to record and process 1080/60 or 4k, you can't have so many pieces so close all overheating. A firmware upgrade probably isn't enough without it causing issues.

Canon's flagship camcorder (the $1350 VIXIA HF G10) can't produce 1080P60 either.

Nor does the XA-10, or any of the XF cameras as far as I know. And since I use those frequently for work, I can tell you that I don't miss the 60fps ever. It's really only something you need in action shooting, and then, you want the tiniest camera you can get so its portable. That's where the TM700/900 win out. But, I'm able to carry my 60D with a lens or two AND my TM700 with me wherever I go. My 60D will never match the convenience of the TM, my TM will never match the look of the 60D. I ultimately need both

 

[chrysek]

Canon said that even its the same body they had to solve over heating issues, so I think thats one of the reason why 1Dx will not have 1080p at 60fps or 4k video. (((

Probably another is the price tag, if they can collect 15k and get away with it why would they include this in 7k camera or 3,5k camera for that matter? Its pure economics for them, if no one will be willing to spend 15k for 1Dc they will lower the price hopefully.

Strange, 5d mark ii was so popular because it offered something that was not there in other cameras at that performance, quality and price range. Now they did raise the bar at least on financial scale so low budget/free projects will not be able to jump on this unfortunately. I think canon is aiming at different markets at this moment.

I did use my 5d mark ii to make a documentary, I got paid nothing, I certainly will not be able to get 1Dc at that price point to do the same, and so many video enthustiasts will be in the same boat, and unfortunately shelling 7k for 1Dx will not even help.

Oh well. In my opinion canon raised the bar to high for folks like myself. I did preorder 1Dx, waiting for it patiently but just getting agrevated how long canon is desceving us with releasing it. They anounced all other cameras, whats the point if they cant deliver squad?

 

[Musouka]

Canon's flagship camcorder (the $1350 VIXIA HF G10) can't produce 1080P60 either.

Nor does the XA-10, or any of the XF cameras as far as I know. And since I use those frequently for work, I can tell you that I don't miss the 60fps ever. It's really only something you need in action shooting, and then, you want the tiniest camera you can get so its portable. That's where the TM700/900 win out. But, I'm able to carry my 60D with a lens or two AND my TM700 with me wherever I go. My 60D will never match the convenience of the TM, my TM will never match the look of the 60D. I ultimately need both

Agreed. I carry my camcorder in the top compartment of my Tarmac 5788 bag. I guess Canon not putting 1080P60 in their camcorders is also related to overheating issues. Panasonic received some criticism for putting a fan in the TM700. Some complained of the fan noise in quiet environments. The company said they improved the design with the TM900 to make it quieter (I don't know if there are any design improvement in the newer X900M). Editing 60P footage might be a bit of a headache depending on the software you use.

 

[chrysek]

I believe the sensor will overheat. 1dc has better sensor cooling.

It will but I think because of 4k video and not 60fps 1080p could be wrong on this

 

[jlev23]

seriously id settle for 48p, why has 60p become such fascination?
coming from shooting film, we would normally use frame rates like 36fps, 40fps and 48fps.
if we wanted real slow motion we would bring in a special mos camera and shoot 96 or 120fps.
60fps was never a go to frame rate...
im sure our 5d's are capable of 40-48fps.

 

[Rofflesaurrr]

There is absolutely no reason the Canon 5D MkIII should not be able to record 1080p @ 60fps. The Digic V has sufficient processing power. 1080/60p would most likely have to be limited to IPB compression though, as ALL-I would require a sustained write speed of about 23MB/sec.

Has anyone taken a look at the Sony a77?

It's a $1400 body with a 24.3MP sensor.
It records 1080/60p/60i/30p/24p and does so with an inferior processor to the 5D3.

It's simply a limitation of firmware. Canon purposely crippled the camera to protect their higher end models (which most considering the 5D3 can't afford anyway). It's not like people in the professional market would stop buying C300s, C500s, and 1DCs if the 5D had more advanced video features. The pros are still going to buy the dedicated cinema cameras for the expandability, advanced manual controls, and I/O features (HD-SDI, XLR, Genlock, Timecode).

And yes, I realize the 5D3 is a photo camera first, but 1080/60p is not something that would handicap, or take away from its photo abilities. It wouldn't even cost extra!

 

[marvinhello]

There is absolutely no reason the Canon 5D MkIII should not be able to record 1080p @ 60fps. The Digic V has sufficient processing power. 1080/60p would most likely have to be limited to IPB compression though, as ALL-I would require a sustained write speed of about 23MB/sec.

Has anyone taken a look at the Sony a77?

It's a $1400 body with a 24.3MP sensor.
It records 1080/60p/60i/30p/24p and does so with an inferior processor to the 5D3.

It's simply a limitation of firmware. Canon purposely crippled the camera to protect their higher end models (which most considering the 5D3 can't afford anyway). It's not like people in the professional market would stop buying C300s, C500s, and 1DCs if the 5D had more advanced video features. The pros are still going to buy the dedicated cinema cameras for the expandability, advanced manual controls, and I/O features (HD-SDI, XLR, Genlock, Timecode).

And yes, I realize the 5D3 is a photo camera first, but 1080/60p is not something that would handicap, or take away from its photo abilities. It wouldn't even cost extra!

Datarate wise, I believe 5D3 can handle 1080/60p without any problem, 1D C records 1080/60p at 180Mbit ALL-I, same can be achieved in 5D3, the only issue would be sensor overheat, a friend from Japan told me that 1D C internal was redesigned completely to cope with the immense heat and dataflow of 4K recording.

 

[JurijTurnsek]

seriously id settle for 48p, why has 60p become such fascination?
coming from shooting film, we would normally use frame rates like 36fps, 40fps and 48fps.
if we wanted real slow motion we would bring in a special mos camera and shoot 96 or 120fps.
60fps was never a go to frame rate...
im sure our 5d's are capable of 40-48fps.

not a lot of people "come from shooting film". and not a lot of people go out filming slo-mos with special cameras...

 

[K-amps]

Canon is getting lazy and greedy. First signs of an empire on decline. They should have woken up when the D7000 came... but they were too drunk on the sales of the 7D/5dii. Those cams were game changers and ahead of their times.... the 5diii was a very small improvement (leaving AF aside) over the 5dii, I don't shoot video, but giving people RAW out/ 1080p @ 60 would have kept in track with how far ahead the 5d2 was in it's time. Sadly they got greedy, priced it too high and crippled it... the Market will teach them soon.

I hope ML can come up with a "fix" for the 5d3 like they fixed the 5d2... For the sake of all those that were loyal to Canon.

 

[Renato]

Canon is getting lazy and greedy. First signs of an empire on decline. They should have woken up when the D7000 came... but they were too drunk on the sales of the 7D/5dii. Those cams were game changers and ahead of their times.... the 5diii was a very small improvement (leaving AF aside) over the 5dii, I don't shoot video, but giving people RAW out/ 1080p @ 60 would have kept in track with how far ahead the 5d2 was in it's time. Sadly they got greedy, priced it too high and crippled it... the Market will teach them soon.

I hope ML can come up with a "fix" for the 5d3 like they fixed the 5d2... For the sake of all those that were loyal to Canon.

It is all marketing, or you can can call it greedy. I would call it st*!!..
CANON CAN DOIT! They did it for 7D three years ago, ok it is only 18MP at 50 and 60 fps at 1280 x 720.

 

[Musouka]

seriously id settle for 48p, why has 60p become such fascination?
coming from shooting film, we would normally use frame rates like 36fps, 40fps and 48fps.
if we wanted real slow motion we would bring in a special mos camera and shoot 96 or 120fps.
60fps was never a go to frame rate...
im sure our 5d's are capable of 40-48fps.

Careful what you wish for

Advance press screenings of 48fps The Hobbit ‘disappoint’ (EOSHD)

 

[ramon123]

Can't Canon release a firmware that can give the 5D Mark III 1080p 60fps?

 

[K-amps]

Can't Canon release a firmware that can give the 5D Mark III 1080p 60fps?

Ofcourse they can... but then what will Magic lantern guys do after that, sit on their rears and do nothing?