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paeataa said:
With a $1500 budget I would think about getting a cheaper body and better lenses, maybe a prime or two?
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How long are you planning to keep your camera? How many lenses are you going to buy?
For the time being, for the budget given, the D7000 will probably serve your needs better. Even if Canon produces a new body, say, a 7D2 or 65D in short succession to the D7000, on average you can expect them to equal, not surpass, the D7000 in high ISO performance.
Paradoxically, I don't think the average D7000 or 60D user will need to upgrade every few years, despite the frequent product updates. Upgrading every product cycle means that in 2 years you've spent enough money to buy a D700 or 5D2, both of which have been 2 stops ahead of the 1 grand range cameras for most of their release history and are now 1 stop ahead of the D7000.
For the time being, for the budget given, the D7000 will probably serve your needs better. Even if Canon produces a new body, say, a 7D2 or 65D in short succession to the D7000, on average you can expect them to equal, not surpass, the D7000 in high ISO performance.
Paradoxically, I don't think the average D7000 or 60D user will need to upgrade every few years, despite the frequent product updates. Upgrading every product cycle means that in 2 years you've spent enough money to buy a D700 or 5D2, both of which have been 2 stops ahead of the 1 grand range cameras for most of their release history and are now 1 stop ahead of the D7000.
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paeataa
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I plan to keep the camera for at least 4-5 years or as long as I can. I want to upgrade from my P&S camera to a DSLR and to seriously learn how to take great photos. My current one (Canon IS S3) is almost 4 years old and I still love it.
My budget is now around $1500-$2000, which I plan to spend on a good camera (with video shooting feature) plus only 1-2 lenses.
Right now I'm leaning toward the Nikon D7000 as its features look promising and will allow me to learn almost everything I need to know about photography. As for the lenses, I'm thinking about 18-135 or 18-200 instead of the kit lens (I want some telephoto), and probably something for the portrait shots. (35 or 50mm/f1.8???). Within my tight little budget, I might be able to only get one lens at the moment.
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With a limited budget I would personally compromise a bit on a camera body rather than on lenses. Unless you really need video or going to use predictive autofocus a lot (e.g. for sports) I would recommend getting otherwise excellent Canon 1000D/Rebel XS or 450D/Rebel XSi (I'd go for this one simply because of the more precise central AF point) and their very decent 18-55 kit lens. Add one prime on top of that (Canon 50/1.8 for $100, Canon 35/2 for $250, or Sigma 30/1.4) and you have a very good and an inexpensive set to start learning. Eventually you'll have a much better idea what lenses or body you need next than you might have now (at least that's how I felt).
Of course, if you want to spend money right now, then I'd recommend getting a nice lens in addition to the kit that I mentioned above: Canon 10-22 or Sigma 8-16 for landscapes, Canon 17-55/2.8 if you don't know exactly what you'll photograph
, or Canon 15-85/3.5-5.6 if you will take pictures with large depth of field in decent light. The above mentioned zoom lenses are all EF-S, meaning you won't be able to use them on a full-frame body in future. In case you plan to upgrade you could consider getting a 24-105L that you can use as a moderate telephoto and a portrait lens on a crop body and as a "normal" zoom on a full-frame in future.
Of course, if you want to spend money right now, then I'd recommend getting a nice lens in addition to the kit that I mentioned above: Canon 10-22 or Sigma 8-16 for landscapes, Canon 17-55/2.8 if you don't know exactly what you'll photograph
, or Canon 15-85/3.5-5.6 if you will take pictures with large depth of field in decent light. The above mentioned zoom lenses are all EF-S, meaning you won't be able to use them on a full-frame body in future. In case you plan to upgrade you could consider getting a 24-105L that you can use as a moderate telephoto and a portrait lens on a crop body and as a "normal" zoom on a full-frame in future.
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Nikon has the excellent and cheap 35/1.8, which gives you a normal prime with small DOF for DX crops, Canon lacks an equivalent, you'd have to fork over more for a 28/2.8 EF prime, which is poor wide open and has a smaller aperture, resulting in less DOF and longer minimum shutter times. Canon's 55-250mm I think is better than Nikon's 55-200mm for the simple reason of giving you longer reach than Nikon, which is further limited by its 1.5x crop factor anyways.
For your budget, I still advise you to go for Nikon. Canon has been performing poorly in competition with Nikon since 2007, when the D3 was launched. That camera significantly outperformed Canon's counterpart 1Ds3, and for less cost as well. It's been more than 2 years since that date, but Canon still hasn't retaken the lead, so between now and the end of your camera lifespan you'll probably be happier with a D7000 than a Canon counterpart.
For your budget, I still advise you to go for Nikon. Canon has been performing poorly in competition with Nikon since 2007, when the D3 was launched. That camera significantly outperformed Canon's counterpart 1Ds3, and for less cost as well. It's been more than 2 years since that date, but Canon still hasn't retaken the lead, so between now and the end of your camera lifespan you'll probably be happier with a D7000 than a Canon counterpart.
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Funny that people want to jump sides just because of the release of 2 camera's.
One thing is obvious to me. Both Canon and Nikon are pricing these new bodies too high if they are to be considered as the successor of the 50D and D90.
Here in the Netherlands prices are:
50D : € 689,- (= US $ 899.-)
60D : € 1025,- (= US $ 1337.-)
D90 : € 629.- (= US $ 820.-)
D7000 : € 1189,- (= US $ 1551.-)
7D : € 1199,- (= US $ 1564.-)
Obvious which is the best buy at this moment if you want to spend 1000 - 1200 Euro's today. For sure it won't be the new ones 8).
One thing is obvious to me. Both Canon and Nikon are pricing these new bodies too high if they are to be considered as the successor of the 50D and D90.
Here in the Netherlands prices are:
50D : € 689,- (= US $ 899.-)
60D : € 1025,- (= US $ 1337.-)
D90 : € 629.- (= US $ 820.-)
D7000 : € 1189,- (= US $ 1551.-)
7D : € 1199,- (= US $ 1564.-)
Obvious which is the best buy at this moment if you want to spend 1000 - 1200 Euro's today. For sure it won't be the new ones 8).
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Too many expected miracles from Canon and whined. A real turn off. Then there are super dudes with electron microscopes declaring DxO the chief arbitrator. Nikon came up with a catch up which is impressive compared to the D90 which for all its IQ value had really become a vintage model. Canon is rolling along. Any more in the 60D and they'd have skipped over the 7D. Both sides priced their models to the market. If u can get a better pic with 39 points more power to u and when u start using ISO in the tens of thousands you better have a twenty thousand dollar lens packed in your backpack. No there's less of a difference here than meets the eye. The mag alloy body is just more weight for people who like to hand hold rather than sit with a tripod and a beer. It's the photographer not the camera. Both C and N need to lower their margins and come up with more lenses with lower prices which have 2.8 and IS/VR.
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Many 7D users are photojournalists who need a portable and light camera with long reach for low weight. The 7D fills that billing, no matter how good the low-light performance is on the 60D. If they had released a 60D with the same high ISO performance as Nikon, it would have cannibalized the 7D to some extent, but the difference in auto-focus would mean that there would still remain a market for the 7D. The same applies to the D300s and the D7000, except the D7000 actually did it, the D300s AF isn't all that better than the D7000 AF, and the D300s has less MP than the D7000, meaning that it has poorer quality at low ISOs, so the D300s is more disadvantaged by the D7000 than the 7D would be by an improved 60D.
Canon probably doesn't have the technology to meet Nikon on this footing, as even the 1D4 has the same high ISO performance, upsized for sensor size, as the 5D2. The D3S is one stop better in this regard.
Canon probably doesn't have the technology to meet Nikon on this footing, as even the 1D4 has the same high ISO performance, upsized for sensor size, as the 5D2. The D3S is one stop better in this regard.
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paeataa said:
A friendly advice from a second hand experience. I have a friend shooting video with the T2i with the kit lens. he told me that the noise from the focusing of the lens is loud and can overtake the conversation. So if you are aiming at video, you need lens with both USM and IS. For me the ideal lens from Canon for video on APS-C camera is 17-55mm f2.8 with both USM and IS. It will be about US$1100. Speaking of USM. Please make sure that you got the RING USM, not Micro USM.
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Rocky said:
If you're considering any kind of reasonably serious video, get yourself an external microphone like the Rode Videomic.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
I decided to take the $2,000 limit challenge. Here is what I came up with.
Canon T2i w/kit lens: $900
Canon 55-250mm EF-S zoom: $230
Vivitar DF383 Strobe: $130
Protective Filters/Cards/Camera Bag: $300
This leaves you with about $440 to spend. Depending on what your priorities are, some choices:
Decent Tripod: $150
Photoflex umbrella, light stand and flash shoe mount: $150
External Microphone for video (Shoe Mount Boom) and Hood loupe for viewing: $200-$300
Lens upgrades: With your budget, you could switch out the kit lens for the Tamron 17-50 VC f2.8 ($549) or the telephoto for the Tamron 70-300mm VC ($400)
Explanations/Rationale:
If you are on a budget, don't buy any newly released camera. It's like buying a new car – you will pay a premium for the latest model and on your budget, you can't afford to waste money. Because you want to keep the camera for several years, I debated between the T2i and the 7D. I ultimately decided to recommend the T2i because I just don't think the 7D fits your price range. Lots of complaining here about the 60D, but in my opinion no other manufacturer can touch the 7D or the T2i in their respective price points, so that's why I recommend them.
I was hesitant to recommend a kit lens, but with the $100 price differential between body only and kit lens, and since you don't already own any lenses, it's hard to pass up the kit lens. The 55-250mm zoom is one of the best bargains Canon makes (sure, it's plastic-y) but it is sharp and has IS. I put a premium on sharpness (a soft lens is worthless in my opinion), and am willing to put up with the light weight and plastic given how well the lens performs for its price.
You will soon want an external flash, especially if you want to try portraits. The Vivitar is a dedicated flash, so it uses the Canon TTL exposure system. More importantly though, it has a built in slave, so you can trigger it off camera with your built-in flash.
You will need something to carry this all in and a shoulder bag is your best buy and most flexible option. You'll also want a card with lots of memory and speed and you need some Daylight or UV filters to protect the front elements of your lenses. These aren't optional purchases, but they are easy to forget about when adding up the dollars.
Finally, some choices to make:
Soon you will want a good, solid tripod. Expect to spend at least $100 to $150 (of course you can spend more);
If you are interested in portraits, an umbrella, light stand and mount will enable you to set up the strobe off camera, and trigger it with your built-in flash. This simple set up will yield very nice, flattering portraits and help you learn lighting;
You mentioned video. If you get into video, you will need an external microphone and some type of hood loupe to view your screen. Of course, you can spend tons more on follow-focus, fluid heads for the tripod, etc. etc. but from what I can tell, these two items are pretty much essential (full disclosure, I don't shoot video)
Finally, you may not like my lens choices, and want to switch them out. I've listed a couple alternatives that could work within your budget. I do not own these lenses, so can't vouch for their sharpness or quality. But I am intrigued by the new 70-300mm which Tamron is marketing as "the sharpest ever." Again, I want my lenses sharp, so that interested me.
Finally, read reviews before buying. Not just in the photo press but on-line. Check out the Adorama customer reviews for products you are considering, as well as similar reviews on BestBuy.Com and other sellers' sites. These are from actual users and will give you a better feel than the limited audience that reads this forum.
Now, a word to my fellow forum readers. I hope you'll rise to the challenge and put together your own $2,000 package for this upgrader. If you can do a better job or have constructive recommendations that fit within the confines he or she has provided us, have at it. I'm not particularly interested in reading nitpicking comments from trolls, but if that's your thing, so be it.
Canon T2i w/kit lens: $900
Canon 55-250mm EF-S zoom: $230
Vivitar DF383 Strobe: $130
Protective Filters/Cards/Camera Bag: $300
This leaves you with about $440 to spend. Depending on what your priorities are, some choices:
Decent Tripod: $150
Photoflex umbrella, light stand and flash shoe mount: $150
External Microphone for video (Shoe Mount Boom) and Hood loupe for viewing: $200-$300
Lens upgrades: With your budget, you could switch out the kit lens for the Tamron 17-50 VC f2.8 ($549) or the telephoto for the Tamron 70-300mm VC ($400)
Explanations/Rationale:
If you are on a budget, don't buy any newly released camera. It's like buying a new car – you will pay a premium for the latest model and on your budget, you can't afford to waste money. Because you want to keep the camera for several years, I debated between the T2i and the 7D. I ultimately decided to recommend the T2i because I just don't think the 7D fits your price range. Lots of complaining here about the 60D, but in my opinion no other manufacturer can touch the 7D or the T2i in their respective price points, so that's why I recommend them.
I was hesitant to recommend a kit lens, but with the $100 price differential between body only and kit lens, and since you don't already own any lenses, it's hard to pass up the kit lens. The 55-250mm zoom is one of the best bargains Canon makes (sure, it's plastic-y) but it is sharp and has IS. I put a premium on sharpness (a soft lens is worthless in my opinion), and am willing to put up with the light weight and plastic given how well the lens performs for its price.
You will soon want an external flash, especially if you want to try portraits. The Vivitar is a dedicated flash, so it uses the Canon TTL exposure system. More importantly though, it has a built in slave, so you can trigger it off camera with your built-in flash.
You will need something to carry this all in and a shoulder bag is your best buy and most flexible option. You'll also want a card with lots of memory and speed and you need some Daylight or UV filters to protect the front elements of your lenses. These aren't optional purchases, but they are easy to forget about when adding up the dollars.
Finally, some choices to make:
Soon you will want a good, solid tripod. Expect to spend at least $100 to $150 (of course you can spend more);
If you are interested in portraits, an umbrella, light stand and mount will enable you to set up the strobe off camera, and trigger it with your built-in flash. This simple set up will yield very nice, flattering portraits and help you learn lighting;
You mentioned video. If you get into video, you will need an external microphone and some type of hood loupe to view your screen. Of course, you can spend tons more on follow-focus, fluid heads for the tripod, etc. etc. but from what I can tell, these two items are pretty much essential (full disclosure, I don't shoot video)
Finally, you may not like my lens choices, and want to switch them out. I've listed a couple alternatives that could work within your budget. I do not own these lenses, so can't vouch for their sharpness or quality. But I am intrigued by the new 70-300mm which Tamron is marketing as "the sharpest ever." Again, I want my lenses sharp, so that interested me.
Finally, read reviews before buying. Not just in the photo press but on-line. Check out the Adorama customer reviews for products you are considering, as well as similar reviews on BestBuy.Com and other sellers' sites. These are from actual users and will give you a better feel than the limited audience that reads this forum.
Now, a word to my fellow forum readers. I hope you'll rise to the challenge and put together your own $2,000 package for this upgrader. If you can do a better job or have constructive recommendations that fit within the confines he or she has provided us, have at it. I'm not particularly interested in reading nitpicking comments from trolls, but if that's your thing, so be it.
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unfocused said:
Personally, I would not recommend this lens for a one lens outfit. 1. 55mm for a ASP-C camera becomes 88mm focal length. The owner will be using tele-zoom lens all the time. What happen when group shots, scenery shot are required. 2. That is the kit lens that my friend is complaining about the noise in focusing that will over power the conversation. 2. Most of the people that use the DSLR for video are mainly for family affair, parties etc. It will require a wide angle lens of minimum of 35mm equivalent focal length.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
I guess I should have clarified that I meant the T2i with the 18-55 Kit lens. Plus the 55-250 IS EF-S. T2i with kit lens is $900. Body only $800. For a person new to SLRs, the $100 extra for the kit lens is hard to pass up, although it is certainly not ideal. The 55-250 EF-S is another $230. These are compromises and I've tried to leave enough room in the budget to upgrade lenses, if that is what he or she wants to do.
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Great comments here.
I am not a Nikon shooter, nor am I a pro at photography. I favor Nikon right now because I believe Nikon offers better value at the 1.1k price, based on the reported features of the D7000 and its high ISO performance.
That said, others who are more experienced than I am have offered excellent Canon sets, and if you're willing to put up with the inferior body, buy their package. I've used both the 18-55mm and 55-250mm and they seem to be both excellent for the price.
I am not a Nikon shooter, nor am I a pro at photography. I favor Nikon right now because I believe Nikon offers better value at the 1.1k price, based on the reported features of the D7000 and its high ISO performance.
That said, others who are more experienced than I am have offered excellent Canon sets, and if you're willing to put up with the inferior body, buy their package. I've used both the 18-55mm and 55-250mm and they seem to be both excellent for the price.
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StepBack said:
I'm sure everybody would love cheaper lenses, but there is more profit in camera bodies that get replaced every two or three years rather than lenses which last longer and don't date as rapidly.
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I'm actually going to take a different tack than others commonly do and suggest that, when you're just starting off, buy cheap lenses as well as a cheap camera body.
if you shell out for expensive Canon lenses, you'll probably end up with 2 lenses in your pocket by the time you're done purchasing. you may well find out very quickly that these 2 lenses don't cover the range you would actually enjoy shooting at.
if you shell out for third party lenses (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina), you can get probably 3 or 4 lenses in your arsenal, through which you can explore lots of different types of photography and figure out where your real interest lies.
I'm not saying the traditional "lens-first" approach doesn't make sense, I'm just saying theres other ways of approaching gear acquisition. if you plan on staying APS-C forever, buying nice EF-S glass makes sense, but who knows? if you go full frame, you'll wish you'd just shelled out for a sigma 10-20 over the canon 10-22 since you'll be replacing it with a 16-35 or 17-40 anyway.
if you shell out for expensive Canon lenses, you'll probably end up with 2 lenses in your pocket by the time you're done purchasing. you may well find out very quickly that these 2 lenses don't cover the range you would actually enjoy shooting at.
if you shell out for third party lenses (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina), you can get probably 3 or 4 lenses in your arsenal, through which you can explore lots of different types of photography and figure out where your real interest lies.
I'm not saying the traditional "lens-first" approach doesn't make sense, I'm just saying theres other ways of approaching gear acquisition. if you plan on staying APS-C forever, buying nice EF-S glass makes sense, but who knows? if you go full frame, you'll wish you'd just shelled out for a sigma 10-20 over the canon 10-22 since you'll be replacing it with a 16-35 or 17-40 anyway.
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Amazon has a DSLR Best Seller List. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/3017941?ie=UTF8&ref_=pd_ts_e_nav that is updated every hour.
When I posted this the Nikon D7000 body was number 1 and the Canon 60D body was number 18 and dropping.
Looks like the market has spoken and it appears that Canon has screwed the pooch ... big time.
When I posted this the Nikon D7000 body was number 1 and the Canon 60D body was number 18 and dropping.
Looks like the market has spoken and it appears that Canon has screwed the pooch ... big time.
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Ah yes, the same list that has the Rebel XSi in place 4... Sorry, but w/o knowing what the criteria for the list positioning are it's totally worthless. Esp. for cameras that are not available.
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