Ok, so I'm switching to Canon.. Please help!

[RyanV]

So this is my first post, please be kind.. Been a long time Nikon guy (first camera was an EM) from the film days, have shot professionally for many years, and am heavily invested in Nikon lenses (which, along with promises of new features in upcoming cameras, has been the only thing keeping me with them this long..)

For the record, I have never been let down by the Nikon equipment I've used. The lenses have been sharp, the bodies for the most part able to take a beating, and I haven't had to rely on their customer service, which I've heard in not that great. I've shot the D2, D4, several other "pro" bodies and have many lenses.

Have been waiting for them to release a camera I can shoot both still and video with, which the D850 for supposed to tackle, but they continue to fail. While the dynamic range seems to be good, and the stills acceptable, the auto focus during video recording is an absolute joke. The camera focus hunts every few seconds like its having a seizure..

So.. I'm finally leaving and will be going Canon. Looking forward to the Canon color (most importantly skintones) and not having to do so much correction in post..

From what I've been reading, looks like I may be coming into the Canon world at a bit of, well, an awkward time. I want full frame, hi-res still, 4k video and as high fps stills as possible. Low light and high ISO performance is a must. I do not want the size and weight of the 1dXii (although i've shot with it and it really is awesome), which only leaves the 6dii and the 5d iv.

BUT... from what I can tell, the 5div, at least to some, was a bit of a disappointment, in terms of features - especially for video. And, it appears if I buy one now that I would be getting in right in the middle of the model cycle as some are hinting that the 5div replacement could be relatively soon and will most likely tick off all the boxes that people thought the mark iv should have had in the first place..

In case it's important, I will be buying the following lenses: 14mm 2.8, 50mm 1.2L, 85mm 1.4L IS, 16-35mm f4, 70-200mm f2.8 IS. That will get me close replacements for my most often used lenses.

So I need input on the body.. Do I pick up a 6dii and wait for the 5div replacement? Do I just go ahead with the 5div?

Things I like:
Canon glass
Canon color (skintones especially)
High enough (for my use) still resolution in Canon full frame bodies
Lens Options
Durability

Things I don't:
Crop factor for video on the 5div
Wish had wider and more AF points
Would love 4k 60fps
Old and clunky video codek

And yes, I know Canon and others make video cameras, but I want a still that will do respectable video (with the aid of sliders and gimbals). One set of lenses. One camera (and perhaps a backup).

Your input and advice is very much appreciated.

 

[snappy604]

" I want full frame, hi-res still, 4k video and as high fps stills as possible"

"which only leaves the 6dii and the 5d iv."

the 6D MkII only does 1080p video.... so leaves only 5D MkIV

 

[RyanV]

" I want full frame, hi-res still, 4k video and as high fps stills as possible"

"which only leaves the 6dii and the 5d iv."

the 6D MkII only does 1080p video.... so leaves only 5D MkIV

Ah yes.. was entertaining the idea of trying to live with 1080 temporarily if the 5div replacement was going to come soon and with much better features.

But yes, if 4k required, the 5div would indeed be the only option..

 

[bluemoon]

Welcome to the dark side!
All kidding aside, it is refreshing to see a well articulated and reasonable decision why it would make sense to switch to Canon. This is not a knock on Nikon as they make a fine camera, just that there are some subtle differences and reasons why it might make sense to switch. . .
As a long time Canon user (mid 80's as a kid bought the first version of the EOS) 1DX2 seems to be the camera that ticks off all you boxes. If your choice is to compromise on the size or 4K output, it might make more sense to get used to heavier body. As a current 1DX user, I was very surprised with the rate of keepers between the two. While the original 1DX is good for about 90%, the new one was almost at a 100% (98-99%). And this is with some incredibly difficult shooting conditions (rock concerts; think fast movement and continuously changing lights).
Since you already have experience with the 1DX2, how about renting the 5Dmk4 and seeing if you like it? This would make your decision much easier. . .

pierre

 

[dak723]

If at all possible, rent a 5D IV. If not, buy one where you can return it hassle free. Using it for yourself is the only way to find out if it will work for you. With all due respect, the internet - and internet forums - is not the place to get any sort of unbiased opinion - or more importantly, an opinion that will work for you. Canon is almost universally trashed on the forum - especially when it comes to video.

Do yourself a favor. get the camera one way or another and then run as fast as possible away from here! Even if you love the camera, you will soon be inundated with anti-Canon sentiment and will begin to doubt your decision.

 

[RyanV]

Welcome to the dark side!
All kidding aside, it is refreshing to see a well articulated and reasonable decision why it would make sense to switch to Canon. This is not a knock on Nikon as they make a fine camera, just that there are some subtle differences and reasons why it might make sense to switch. . .
As a long time Canon user (mid 80's as a kid bought the first version of the EOS) 1DX2 seems to be the camera that ticks off all you boxes. If your choice is to compromise on the size or 4K output, it might make more sense to get used to heavier body. As a current 1DX user, I was very surprised with the rate of keepers between the two. While the original 1DX is good for about 90%, the new one was almost at a 100% (98-99%). And this is with some incredibly difficult shooting conditions (rock concerts; think fast movement and continuously changing lights).
Since you already have experience with the 1DX2, how about renting the 5Dmk4 and seeing if you like it? This would make your decision much easier. . .

pierre

First, thank you for taking the time. I do appreciate it.

Yes, the full size 1dxii.. Shot with it, although only briefly, and it is a great camera. Just "feels right". Further, I speak for myself, but once you get used to the vertical grip on pro cameras, it really is hard to go back. Also, if I ended up with, say, the 5d or 6d, I had intended to add the battery grip for shooting vertically - which defeats one of my own reasons for NOT buying the 1dxii, weight.. The 5d and attached vertical grip has got to be pretty close, if not heavier..

I guess I (unintentionally) have been handling the jump into the Canon pond as more of a toe dip. Just feeling the water a little bit while not just diving in.

BUT, the thought process was simply this - get a decent body (5div or 6dii), the L lenses to cover my needs as listed above, speedlites and accessories, and see how the whole setup feels in regards to body handling (retraining my brain with that crazy wheel-thing on the backs of the Canons =) ) and get used to the file handling process to see how the whole Canon system works with my post.

I'm assuming I'll like the setup and will adjust quickly to the Canon world, and then, after my self-imposed trial period, grab a 1dxii or iii or whatever the current pro body is, keeping the 5d or 6d as a backup.

THAT was the thought behind this, which i perhaps should have lead with.

The recommendation to rent or borrow the 5div is a great thought. I should probably do that. Had considered quickly ordering the 5div today to have it overnighted, as i leave for Boston Thurs morning, but I should probably do as you suggest and use the 5d before blindly ordering it. I do very much appreciate your input and warm welcome.

Ryan

 

[RyanV]

If at all possible, rent a 5D IV. If not, buy one where you can return it hassle free. Using it for yourself is the only way to find out if it will work for you. With all due respect, the internet - and internet forums - is not the place to get any sort of unbiased opinion - or more importantly, an opinion that will work for you. Canon is almost universally trashed on the forum - especially when it comes to video.

Do yourself a favor. get the camera one way or another and then run as fast as possible away from here! Even if you love the camera, you will soon be inundated with anti-Canon sentiment and will begin to doubt your decision.

You make a valid point about what to read and believe online. Please believe me when I say that the switch has been very carefully thought through with (ok get ready because I'm seriously a King Nerd) fairly hardcore spreadsheets detailing the switch. Pros and cons for both. Body, lens and accessory prices, current gear value if sold and on and on.

And yes, I have noticed the Canon bashing, both here and other places. Taken with a grain of salt.. The decision to switch comes from a long time shooting side by side with many Canon users, and seeing how the Canon cameras, over time, have performed overall in the identical situations. Also, Canon has been noticeably stronger in the video department than Nikon.

But your suggestion in on point. I need to get ahold of a 5div to shoot with. That will definitely help much more than trying to figure it out while staring at a screen. =) . It may also help cement wither I go with the 5d or just go ahead and get the 1dxii, which i will inevitably end up with...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Canon is not going to combine a serious cinema quality video camera with a stills camera. They produce serious cinema cameras, and combine video into a stills camera, but it will never be cinema quality, just good enough for its purpose, which is to let wedding photographers take both video and stills with the same camera, or for photographing events where having video in a stills camera would be useful.

The autofocus during video with a 5D MK IV is good, and the video is very good, but if you want a broadcast or cinema camera, its not the one.

Sony generally has the best broadcast cameras, but broadcasters use Canon or Fuji lenses on them.

So, no matter which way you turn, there will be compromises. Video autofocus is a weak point for Nikon, they may have a FF mirrorless out late this year, and it might be worth waiting for since you have lots of expensive lenses.

 

[RyanV]

Canon is not going to combine a serious cinema quality video camera with a stills camera. They produce serious cinema cameras, and combine video into a stills camera, but it will never be cinema quality, just good enough for its purpose, which is to let wedding photographers take both video and stills with the same camera, or for photographing events where having video in a stills camera would be useful.

The autofocus during video with a 5D MK IV is good, and the video is very good, but if you want a broadcast or cinema camera, its not the one.

Sony generally has the best broadcast cameras, but broadcasters use Canon or Fuji lenses on them.

So, no matter which way you turn, there will be compromises. Video autofocus is a weak point for Nikon, they may have a FF mirrorless out late this year, and it might be worth waiting for since you have lots of expensive lenses.

Thank you for your input. Yes, as you pointed out there will be compromises. The camera will be first and foremost a still camera. I certainly know not to expect cinema quality until moving to a dedicated video machine such as the C200 or something along those lines. (down the road for me)

With that said, with the advancement in technology, and with so many others like me that would like to shoot both video and stills from one machine and one set of lenses, I really don't think it's too much to ask for a machine to be capable of both. Not expecting for it to be the best at both, just pretty darn good at both.

 

[BasXcanon]

Ryan, are you sure you gonna drop every single piece of Nikon equipment????
The 1Dm2/5Dm4/6Dm2 all have limitations for video.
If I were you I would keep the Nikon stuff and try snagg an used Canon XC10.
It is a true cinema 1 inch sensor camera that goes on sale for 1100-1200$ used on eBay every once in a while.
You get the colors, ergonomic handgrip, high bitrate on CF card, focus peaking, 4K 30fp, no 30mins restrictions etc.......
The best thing it runs on the LP E6N batteries that you could use for future Canon cameras, if you plan on expanding your canon collection.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Canon is not going to combine a serious cinema quality video camera with a stills camera. They produce serious cinema cameras, and combine video into a stills camera, but it will never be cinema quality, just good enough for its purpose, which is to let wedding photographers take both video and stills with the same camera, or for photographing events where having video in a stills camera would be useful.

The autofocus during video with a 5D MK IV is good, and the video is very good, but if you want a broadcast or cinema camera, its not the one.

Sony generally has the best broadcast cameras, but broadcasters use Canon or Fuji lenses on them.

So, no matter which way you turn, there will be compromises. Video autofocus is a weak point for Nikon, they may have a FF mirrorless out late this year, and it might be worth waiting for since you have lots of expensive lenses.

Thank you for your input. Yes, as you pointed out there will be compromises. The camera will be first and foremost a still camera. I certainly know not to expect cinema quality until moving to a dedicated video machine such as the C200 or something along those lines. (down the road for me)

With that said, with the advancement in technology, and with so many others like me that would like to shoot both video and stills from one machine and one set of lenses, I really don't think it's too much to ask for a machine to be capable of both. Not expecting for it to be the best at both, just pretty darn good at both.

For the price, the best overall deal right now is the 5D MK IV. I don't see anything better being available this year.

Once you sell off your Nikon lenses and buy Canon, you will be committed. If Nikon and Canon come out with mirrorless at the end of the year, they may have new lenses for them, I'm hoping Canon will stay with EF lenses, but its pretty doubtful. Nikon is said to be coming out with new lenses.

At this point, I'd say wait for 6 months and see, unless its a matter of making enough so that you can sell off lenses to get a mirrorless system in a year. I would be reluctant to use a adapter for a mirrorless caera, so after a year, there will be at least a high end wide and normal zoom available, and likely medium telephoto..

 

[RyanV]

Ryan, are you sure you gonna drop every single piece of Nikon equipment????
The 1Dm2/5Dm4/6Dm2 all have limitations for video.
If I were you I would keep the Nikon stuff and try snagg an used Canon XC10.
It is a true cinema 1 inch sensor camera that goes on sale for 1100-1200$ used on eBay every once in a while.
You get the colors, ergonomic handgrip, high bitrate on CF card, focus peaking, 4K 30fp, no 30mins restrictions etc.......
The best thing it runs on the LP E6N batteries that you could use for future Canon cameras, if you plan on expanding your canon collection.

If video for client work continues to increase, then yes, I would absolutely consider investing in a full cinema kit. But the truth is until then I'd just rather not bother with another system. I already have camera bodies (main and backup), lenses, batteries, filters, etc for SLR. Three more bags for drones (Phantom 4 pro and Mavic pros) and the batteries and accessories for them. I'd rather not have one more system on top of all this, if one system could do both.

Of course I do look at this realistically. Even with the 1dxii - will I end up with cinema quality footage even when using cinema-specific lenses - no, certainly not, at least not with me behind the camera. Would I end up with a great camera able to take fantastic stills and passable video for run and gun video projects and local sporting events? Yeah, I think most likely yes. Further, one camera and one set of lenses would give me the ability switch back and forth with relative ease.

Because, let's be honest, the best camera for the job is the one you will actually use. I would be much more apt to actually shoot more video if the tools were already at hand. Take my drones for instance. Once the novelty wears off, its just more equipment to lug around, keep charged, etc. There has been times I could have recorded some pretty amazing video footage had I actually brought the three additional bags of gear necessary to have my drones with me. Often, at least to me, more gear is more hassle. More hassle means I don't use it as often as I should..

In addition to the simplicity of having one camera body and one set of lenses for both still and occasional video work there are certain things about the Canon ecosystem i DO like over Nikon:

• I believe Canon's color science is superior.
• It would seem, as a very long-time Nikon user, that Canon, at least over the last ten years, has been much more the innovator - leaving Nikon to continually catch up. (Of course there are a few exceptions, but overall it feels like this is true.)
• Canon does seem to have a better foothold in video, offering cinema-specific lenses
• Canon seems to have mostly figured out auto focus for video - something that has eluded Nikon, even with the new 850. It is really aweful in this department.
• High ISO advantage goes to Canon
• Dynamic range (in ISO over 640) seems to be better with Canon, at least on the 5div

 

[RyanV]

For the price, the best overall deal right now is the 5D MK IV. I don't see anything better being available this year.

Once you sell off your Nikon lenses and buy Canon, you will be committed. If Nikon and Canon come out with mirrorless at the end of the year, they may have new lenses for them, I'm hoping Canon will stay with EF lenses, but its pretty doubtful. Nikon is said to be coming out with new lenses.

At this point, I'd say wait for 6 months and see, unless its a matter of making enough so that you can sell off lenses to get a mirrorless system in a year. I would be reluctant to use a adapter for a mirrorless caera, so after a year, there will be at least a high end wide and normal zoom available, and likely medium telephoto..

Yes, that the other factor I've been trying to figure out. If mirrorless is indeed the future of photography, how heavily do I want to go down the slr road with a new Canon system.

I appreciate your straightforward answer as it does give me more to think about but seems to be very sound advice.

 

[criscokkat]

For the price, the best overall deal right now is the 5D MK IV. I don't see anything better being available this year.

Once you sell off your Nikon lenses and buy Canon, you will be committed. If Nikon and Canon come out with mirrorless at the end of the year, they may have new lenses for them, I'm hoping Canon will stay with EF lenses, but its pretty doubtful. Nikon is said to be coming out with new lenses.

At this point, I'd say wait for 6 months and see, unless its a matter of making enough so that you can sell off lenses to get a mirrorless system in a year. I would be reluctant to use a adapter for a mirrorless caera, so after a year, there will be at least a high end wide and normal zoom available, and likely medium telephoto..

Yes, that the other factor I've been trying to figure out. If mirrorless is indeed the future of photography, how heavily do I want to go down the slr road with a new Canon system.

I appreciate your straightforward answer as it does give me more to think about but seems to be very sound advice.

With what we know right now, it might be worth waiting until lens mount questions can be answered. If your current setup is doing what you need it to do with the exception of having to do more post processing, then consider waiting until sometime this summer where everything should be firmed up. We might not see anything official until Photokina, but that doesn't mean it won't be known until then.

However if you have a need that is not able to be met by Nikon this summer, then consider switching now.

 

[stevelee]

A thing that is often mentioned here as a Canon advantage is the user interface, etc. I've not ever used a Nikon DSLR, so I can't really speak to much other than what I've read from those who have. Apparently the habit or turning some things one way is a problem switching to the other system that turns those things the other way.

I was impressed with your list of anticipated lenses. I wish I could afford that whole bunch right now, not that I really need them all.

I've had a 6D2 for about six months, but I was traveling without it for five-plus weeks of that time. I've been quite impressed with its abilities. The video I shot was spot on for focus, color balance, and exposure under some difficult situations. I've used auto settings a lot as I am learning the camera, and they work so well so often, I don't feel a need to override them except for specific situations. The video is only 1080p, but I haven't needed anything beyond that. The quality holds up rather well in Compressor when some upsampling is needed for the crops I've made in FCP X. The result is watchable full screen on my 5K monitor from <2 ft., so should look decent on a 1080 TV or maybe even upscaled on a 4K TV when seen from a normal viewing distance on a medium-sized screen.

I see size and weight as an advantage over the "pro" models (and for me, price), but as you say, by the time you add stuff to it, that advantage goes away. I'm not suggesting that it is the right move for you, to get it as a temporary workhorse while waiting for new models of the pro cameras. But I did want to pass along my positive experiences with the camera. I guess I appreciate them all the more since I read much of the online complaints about the model. The speed and accuracy of the autofocus sometimes blows me away. Also, I would not want to do without the articulating screen, so even if I could afford the other cameras, I'd probably still go with the 6D2, knowing what I know now. One of the reasons I have a DSLR is for the optical viewfinder, so I'm not really that interested in waiting for some new model without one.

 

[fussy III]

I will get a lot of wind blown in my face, but I believe if you really want workable and rather smooth video-AF, 4K, fullframe, high ISO, reasonable photo-resolution, the most obvious choice would be Sony a7III with native Sony lenses. If you add to your demands certain EF-lenses, optical viewfinder and the durability of an EOS-body, then it is either going to be a mixed selection of Sony and Canon or it has got to be the Canon 1DXII.

But here is my suggestion (what I would be looking at as a wedding videographer if I was one):

1x 5Dsr or 5DIV
1x Sony a7RIII or a7III (both with IBIS and 4K)

Sigma MC-11 (EF to E-mount adapter)

the upcoming Sigma 50/1.4 for E-mount (expectedly better video-tracking than an adapted Canon 50/1.2)
the Upcoming Sigma 85/1.4 for E-mount (expectedly better video-tracking than an adapted Canon 84/1.4)
Sony 70-200 G-Master (expectedly better video-tracking than an adapted Canon Ef 70-200)
The Canon-solutions are nicer and more charming optically, so it is a matter of whether you need smooth video AF with these three lenses or not.

Perhaps you might want to add a Sigma 24/1.4 or 35/1.4 native for e-mount, so that you can video-focus smoothly with a wider lens lens.

Any other lens that you might want to add to your kit would likely have its domain in photography, not video, which means it can be Canon- or other EF-mount-glass. It will work well not only on the 5DsR/5DIVs but thanks to MC-11 also on the Sony a7III/RIII, unless you are tracking fast photo-action. In that case with Canon-lenses better use a Canon-Body. For video it will almost inevitably be the Sony-body you are leaning to.

Keep in mind that if you are not using a rig and an external screen, it may be very beneficial to have the electronic viewfinder of the a7III/RIII for video over the backmonitor of a 1DXII. An added benefit is the choice between FF and Super-35.

However if you were to work with an external monitor, perhaps the 1DXII would allow you to exclude Sony from your considerations. But when filming it will be big and heavy and demand a tripod and a rig in many situations where the Sony might almost work on a gimbal (I may be exaggerating - I do not have that much experience with video and try to collect what I learned on you tube in that regard).

If these alternatives do not sound satisfactory, I'd stick with Nikon for now and focus manually until Canon comes up with a reasonable 4K implementation (but who knows if they ever will).

Good luck

 

[RayValdez360]

So your main factor on switching to canon is video auto-focusing? SMH

 

[dak723]

So your main factor on switching to canon is video auto-focusing? SMH

Sure sounds like a good reason. Some folks are actually interested in their video being in focus and consider it more important than any other factor.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

So your main factor on switching to canon is video auto-focusing? SMH

Sure sounds like a good reason. Some folks are actually interested in their video being in focus and consider it more important than any other factor.

I'm one who would only use video briefly while hand holding my DSLR. Focusing it with one hand while holding the camera and a heavy lens is something I've never mastered. Its complicated by the fact that I usually do this for dancers on a stage and my focus effort lags the movement by a lot.

I bought my 5D MK IV in part for the live AF capabilities, its been one of the big improvements for me.

 

[AuroraChaserDoug]

Sports, high ISO, video - 1DX mkII

The 5D MkIV has same AF system as 1DX mkII but at slower frame rate at only 7 fps. I prefer having the option of removing the battery grip and going "light" with my 5D and having the larger sensor. It's a great all-around camera.

However, if your primary purpose is sports action, then go with the 1DX mkII. Here is a shot of a race with my 5d mkIV. The better shot would have been the moment both lead dogs had their heads up at the top of the stride, which would have been captured with a 1DX mkII. As it was, my buffer was filling from the previous burst and I was surprised to get this one.