Canon 650D - sensor size?

[FarQinell]

Any rumours on the sensor Mp size for this next body in the popular APS-C range - and when it is due out?

The 450D had 12.2 Mp sensor

500D had 15.1 Mp

550D/600D have 18.0 Mp

650D - 22 or 24 Mp?

If you are shooting smallish targets requiring cropping then increasing pixel density on the same sensor must be beneficial to image quality - same size image but more pixels covering it?

 

[moreorless]

Any rumours on the sensor Mp size for this next body in the popular APS-C range - and when it is due out?

The 450D had 12.2 Mp sensor

500D had 15.1 Mp

550D/600D have 18.0 Mp

650D - 22 or 24 Mp?

If you are shooting smallish targets requiring cropping then increasing pixel density on the same sensor must be beneficial to image quality - same size image but more pixels covering it?

There have been some vague rumours about the 650D coming out in the near future but nothing definate in terms of dates or specs.

If it comes out before the 7D mk2 or the 70D I'd guess it will most likely use the old 7D 18 MP sensor again.

 

[nentraC]

Senzor size is not = to pixel density.

 

[dichiaras]

Including the 350D (8 MP) and 450D (10 MP) the MP numerical series might be converging:
8,10,12,15,18,18,18,...
;D

 

[FarQinell]

Just seen the D3200 (24Mp) 100% crop sample image on Nikon Rumours.
Ultra smooth - very impressive!
If the 650D comes out with say 20Mp on board it will be bad for Canon and they will have an uphill job convincing anyone new to DSLR photography to choose their brand!!
When you need 100% size images the more Mp the better.

 

[Astro]

If the 650D comes out with say 20Mp on board it will be bad for Canon and they will have an uphill job convincing anyone new to DSLR photography to choose their brand!!
When you need 100% size images the more Mp the better.

yeah and every entry level customer who buys a cheap D3200 prints billboard sized images... LOL.
do a reality check!

as for cropping. it´s a marginal benefit.
do the math how much more resolution 24MP is compard to 18MP.
read: RESOLUTION... not megapixels.

for enty level DSLR customers the MP number SHOULD have no meaning today, all DSLR cameras offer plenty.
but i guess MP is what still sells for soccer mums.

If the 650D comes out with say 20Mp on board it will be bad for Canon and they will have an uphill job convincing anyone new to DSLR photography to choose their brand!!

i wonder how nikon has survived all the years.... :

 

[akiskev]

i wonder how nikon has survived all the years.... :

Nikon has survived with lower than Canon sales :

 

[Astro]

i wonder how nikon has survived all the years.... :

Nikon has survived with lower than Canon sales :

so you say canon users are mostly megapixel noobs?

and i thought it´s because of the fancy white lenses.....

 

[birtembuk]

My bet is that it will be a 22.1 mpix that is a video enhanced sensor and that is 5760x3840. Like for the 5D3, this means a size divisible by the width of HD video - 1920 - for ease of downsampling. This sensor will then be used in 70D and then 7D2. There will later be a 7Dc coming. That's also why the April fool rumors of a 5Dc might not be so wrong after all. I think Canon has been marveling and bathing in contentment at the EOS-Movie thing that actually came, I guess, unexpected. Maybe predicting the decline of DSLR's vs mirror-less, they decided to change course of the ship full-steam to video. Let's see how this 650D comes out. If it comes with same old 18 mp, well, that's not too good. Nokia is nearing bankruptcy by producing models that customers did not want to buy anymore ...

 

[bycostello]

you've prob more than enough already....

 

[Marsu42]

Any rumours on the sensor Mp size for this next body in the popular APS-C range - and when it is due out?

Nobody knows, and those few who know have signed a nda. But one thing is sure after Nikon's budget high mp release: They cannot do another small upgrade like 550d->600d or they will get stomped because it's one thing having older inferior tech, but it's another to release something new that is outdated to start with like their 18mp sensor.

yeah and every entry level customer who buys a cheap D3200 prints billboard sized images... LOL.
do a reality check!

*check* ... reality is that mom's and dad's computer don't have any issue wrestling with a 24mp jpegs these days and they don't do extensive pp. And if the dr and noise (esp. downsized) is ok soccer mum very much would like to crop to get her son on the other end of the field because her purchase didn't include a tele lens.

I think you're contradicting yourself: If speaking of mp, you're saying people don't need them - and a the same time the resolution is not that much larger, so why not if the technology allows for it? It sure is a small benefit, but not a much larger one than jumping from 18mp crop to 21mp mk2 for the last years. I didn't hear many 5d2 users say "Don't get it! 21mp is insane! You don't need it!" during the last years. And now there are few 5d3 users advising their fellow photos "22mp? Oh no! I'd have liked 12!".

 

[Astro]

Nobody knows, and those few who know have signed a nda. But one thing is sure after Nikon's budget high mp release: They cannot do another small upgrade like 550d->600d or they will get stomped because it's one thing having older inferior tech, but it's another to release something new that is outdated to start with like their 18mp sensor.

well yes i forgot, there are still some out there who think a sensor design is only measured by megapixels.... :

that is why nikon will not sell the D4 i guess.

if canon will bring an improved 18MP sensor, then i guess many of the educated customers will be very happy with it.

if its the SAME 18 MP sensor.. well yes then it gets a a bit long in the tooth.

 

[BillyBean]

My bet is that it will be a 22.1 mpix

I think that's pretty unlikely. The Nikon D800 is pushing up against diffraction limits, and this would go well beyond that because of the APS-C sensor size. It is simply not practical to go much higher than the 7D in terms of APS-C sensors.

Also, the data handling requirements of this would require faster processors and path handling, which I admit is a possibility, but Canon will not wish to cannibalise the higher end market.

If this MP is achievable in APS-C I would expect to see it in a 7D2, if anywhere, but I suspect the image quality would be pants due to noise and diffraction, particularly in the non-L lenses likely to be in use at the lower end of the market.

 

[Astro]

My bet is that it will be a 22.1 mpix

I think that's pretty unlikely. The Nikon D800 is pushing up against diffraction limits, and this would go well beyond that because of the APS-C sensor size. It is simply not practical to go much higher than the 7D in terms of APS-C sensors.

Also, the data handling requirements of this would require faster processors and path handling, which I admit is a possibility, but Canon will not wish to cannibalise the higher end market.

If this MP is achievable in APS-C I would expect to see it in a 7D2, if anywhere, but I suspect the image quality would be pants due to noise and diffraction, particularly in the non-L lenses likely to be in use at the lower end of the market.

the D3200 is 24MP on aps-c... so i don´t see a problem why canon could not do 21MP if they want.

if the user needs it.. that´s another question open for discussion.

 

[Marsu42]

well yes i forgot, there are still some out there who think a sensor design is only measured by megapixels.... that is why nikon will not sell the D4 i guess.

The d4 won't sell only because it's got cleaner shots with more nr, but because of hundreds of other reasons that matter to pro photogs - like previous Nikon pro bodies with much less mps did. Even *if* the d3200 had the same iq as the d4 this wouldn't change.

But if you're implying that the people who see Nikon's 24mp body as a threat to Canon's entry dlsr line cannot tell mp from noise or dynamic range, I'm pressed to say that imho that's very near trolling.

 

[Astro]

But if you're implying that the people who see Nikon's 24mp body as a threat to Canon's entry dlsr line cannot tell mp from noise or dynamic range, I'm pressed to say that imho that's very near trolling.

well go out in a shop and ask someone who buys a D3200 (or a1100D, 600D) what noise or DR means .. you will be suprised by their puzzled faces.

forums like this one are no mirror of the majority of customers.

even with worse IQ more MP sell. you just have to look a P&S cameras.
that does not mean the D3200 has bad IQ.. it´s a general observation.

i don´t say the D3200 is no competition, it sure is, but the conclusion the TO draws are somwhat unrealistic....

 

[Marsu42]

well go out in a shop and ask someone who buys a D3200 (or a1100D, 600D) what noise or DR means .. you will be suprised by their puzzled faces.

That would be indeed interesting - because my personal observation is different, but maybe that's a coincidence or a statistical bias because of the kind of people around me.

I think your average customer does know that more mp mean potential drawbacks, because the question is so obvious why a mobile phone has the same mp count as a dslr! But they seem to think that noise is the only problem, not dynamic range too. And they are partially correct, because most shots have a low dr.

Many customers may even be mistaken in the other direction, thinking that an older camera with "bigger pixels" is better than the fanciest new d3200.

Those who get a camera because they have no clue at all will get a (mirrorless) system camera these days because they won't want to change lenses and want a super zoom, candy colors and maybe high mp. They'll only get a dlsr unless a salesman talks them into it.

 

[Astro]

well go out in a shop and ask someone who buys a D3200 (or a1100D, 600D) what noise or DR means .. you will be suprised by their puzzled faces.

That would be indeed interesting - because my personal observation is different, but maybe that's a coincidence or a statistical bias because of the kind of people around me.

of course.

during my studying times i worked at a two big european resellers (media markt and saturn) in the photo department.
i think most of the customers i had did not even know what aperture actually means, not to mention the influence it has on DOF.

something like noise or dynamic range? well that´s something i had to tell them about.

and nearly all of them asked me soon or later if the camera with the "more megapixel" is not the better camera.

 

[foobar]

What Canon needs is a new APS-C sensor with lower noise (especially at low to medium ISO) and higher dynamic range. I don't care how they achieve it and how many megapixels it will have, as long as they get the image quality right.

 

[well_dunno]

if its the SAME 18 MP sensor.. well yes then it gets a a bit long in the tooth.

+1
Canon needs to show they have done their R&D and can come with sensor improvements IMHO...